the Coronavirus outbreak thread

[Dawg2]

Originally Posted by makak

It's ludicrous with what's happening now. I'll happily pay the $133 fine. Our state is governed by morons. They say social distancing is what we all need to do, then refuse to cancel an election, it's only a local council election. The importance of which is zero. I'd guarantee you that 99.9% of Australians wouldn't have a clue who their local council member is. Sorry for the rant, this hypocrisy makes me rage.



I drove past a polling booth at 9am this morning on the way to get the weekly groceries. Not a single car in the carpark. I hope people stay away and send the message.



https://www.news.com.au/national/que...fec7dfe96f11a4

I'd pay the fine.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Letsgodiving]

The World Knows an Apocalyptic Pandemic Is Coming - But nobody is interested in doing anything about it. An interesting article that came out Sept 20, 2019.

"A new independent report compiled at the request of the United Nations secretary-general warns that there is a “very real threat” of a pandemic sweeping the planet, killing up to 80 million people. A deadly pathogen, spread airborne around the world, the report says, could wipe out almost 5 percent of the global economy. And we’re not ready."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/09/20...mic-is-coming/

[77T]

Originally Posted by Letsgodiving

The World Knows an Apocalyptic Pandemic Is Coming - But nobody is interested in doing anything about it. An interesting article that came out Sept 20, 2019.

That is a very broad set of threats that I’d call biological. It goes well beyond viral and into bacteriological, genetically altered pathogens, and suggestive of purposefully weaponized germ warfare. Throw in anthrax and few others and the threat profile is seemingly unmanageable.

I can’t imagine such a wide set of threats that any country could effectively curb without multi-trillion budgets just for the eventualities.

Public policy is often a set of decisions balanced with citizenry’s willingness to pay. Would you want to pay 80% of each dollar “just in case”? That budget would also need to address natural disasters, physical defense, cyber defense, etc.

Since it would affect almost every nook and cranny of every country, one would need many different “crash kits” for healthcare professionals to deploy.

Interesting read but I think boiling the ocean would be easier to accomplish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sickened1]

For folks in SoCal (mainly LA County):

https://csungis.maps.arcgis.com/apps...554e8bfa156668

[Fleetlord]

I found this video presentation one of the better ones I've seen regarding the spread of the virus, the importance of data, and the ramifications of terrible decisions that were made in during the early stages.

The biggest point and one I have been a proponent on since this all started is:

MASKS

That's right Masks.

I agree with the video in that the whole narrative regarding masks "doing more harm than good and healthy people shouldn't wear them", was a very thin cover story for the nasty fact that there are not enough masks and if you aren't a health care worker, you aren't essential enough to have one, so a cooked up a counter story was concocted to cover that unpleasantness.

It's fine if that was stated bluntly, without the bit of subterfuge, BUT there will be a point where the general public in the West will have to mask up like in Asia and subsequently there will then have to be backtracking that states Masks ARE vital and you really should wear one...it's really the only way to deal with the asymptomatic spreaders who have no idea they are sick, which is such a big PITA about this virus. Nothing like mixed messages with peoples live in peril!

One person is infected and feels great. Another person is infected and ten days later, their lungs are deteriorated like they where caught in WWI gas attack...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN3BWaEH3tY

A little on the long side for those ADHD among us, but I found it interesting...like the guys on youtube who track hurricanes and provide so much more info than the corporate weather cronies do..

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Of course not. But the point was, in your words, "to measure the impact of Covid-19."

That's why here in Italy we say that the deaths are "with COVID-19" and not "by COVID-19".

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[swatty]

Originally Posted by makak

It's ludicrous with what's happening now. I'll happily pay the $133 fine. Our state is governed by morons. They say social distancing is what we all need to do, then refuse to cancel an election, it's only a local council election. The importance of which is zero. I'd guarantee you that 99.9% of Australians wouldn't have a clue who their local council member is. Sorry for the rant, this hypocrisy makes me rage.

I drove past a polling booth at 9am this morning on the way to get the weekly groceries. Not a single car in the carpark. I hope people stay away and send the message.

https://www.news.com.au/national/que...fec7dfe96f11a4

My 80 year old father , who lives in QLD voted today because he didn’t want to pay the fine. I figured he wouldn’t go because he hasn’t left the house for a couple of weeks, They should have postponed the election

[Rock]

One of the characteristics of epidemics/pandemics is that each country will experience it in it's own timeframe. When you see it devastating another country, it is a really good time to be putting rigorous controls in place in your own and preparing for the inevitable impact which your common sense should be telling you is coming.
One might have thought that the example of the SARS epidemic, the annual global 'Flu season, and all the "Pandemic movies" might have suggested to governments that it might be a good idea to prepare a "Plan" for the inevitable. Did anybody do that? No.
Every country has been caught 'flat-footed' and has only taken it seriously when it became very clear that they were in BIG trouble. Many people still don't get it.
Hopefully when the next big one happens (and it WILL happen) we will all have a Plan.

On a positive note, my wife was able to buy a pack of a dozen toilet rolls today. She limited her purchase to ONE pack so that others will get a go.

[makak]

Originally Posted by swatty

My 80 year old father , who lives in QLD voted today because he didn’t want to pay the fine. I figured he wouldn’t go because he hasn’t left the house for a couple of weeks, They should have postponed the election

My hope for your dad is that the polling station he attended was as empty as the one I drove past today. My father is in his 70's and read somewhere that given the current situation, anyone over 70 can get away without paying the fine, by staying home for health concerns. I never saw that messaging anywhere, no doubt something to government should have shared because that age is the most vulnerable. It's disgusting the election took place.

Prayers that your father remains in good health

[swatty]

Originally Posted by makak

My hope for your dad is that the polling station he attended was as empty as the one I drove past today. My father is in his 70's and read somewhere that given the current situation, anyone over 70 can get away without paying the fine, by staying home for health concerns. I never saw that messaging anywhere, no doubt something to government should have shared because that age is the most vulnerable. It's disgusting the election took place.

Prayers that your father remains in good health

Thanks mate

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by sillo

Who said anyone was stopping all other care?

The poster I quoted mentioned collateral damage, I was responding to that.

Try getting seen for anything that’s not COVID-19 related it’s next to impossible.

I read a piece regarding a NYC hospital of a med there saying all departments have been converted to COVID-19 wards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by 77T

If you follow the sequence of quotes, you’ll see the source - it’s earlier in the thread. The source was originally a New England Journal of Medicine article that a different member shared an opinion of delaying care.

As for my own real-world impacts that I personally know about:
Non-essential surgeries have been cancelled in Counties/States who declared an emergency.

I have a neighbor who just got a breast cancer diagnosis and her surgeon said the hospital won’t schedule surgery.

I have a life-long friend who was scheduled for kidney transplant - donor and he were ready to go a week ago. It was called off and can’t be scheduled.

In both cases, they are very worried.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This, I thought I’d read it somewhere, thanks for quoting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raffy22]

I'm in the UK... Staying at home for the next few months. Why risk it? I already know of 2 dead.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Andad]

Originally Posted by swatty

My 80 year old father , who lives in QLD voted today because he didn’t want to pay the fine. I figured he wouldn’t go because he hasn’t left the house for a couple of weeks, They should have postponed the election

Peter,

I have no doubt in my mind that the voting in Queensland will not help to stem the spread off this virus.

I also have no doubt that on the basis of probability your dad will be just fine.

My point was that isolation is the big issue here.

Stay safe.

[swatty]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Peter,

I have no doubt in my mind that the voting in Queensland will not help to stem the spread off this virus.

I also have no doubt that on the basis of probability your dad will be just fine.

My point was that isolation is the big issue here.

Stay safe.

Thanks Eddie, just spoke to him again , he said that he couldn’t understand why there was no line, thank god for that I say

[White Collar Boy]

Sorry to hear that, Raffy. Good idea.

Swatty, here’s also hoping your dad is okay. I organised a postal vote for my 70-year old dad, but still, he insisted on walking to the nearest booth to lodge a pre-poll vote. It’s disgraceful we haven’t seen the “draconian” measures to enforce isolation that Morrison hinted at last weekend after photos of a packed Bondi Beach; nothing short will keep my vulnerable and stubborn dad from going into town when he feels the need.

[DJ39]

Originally Posted by Rock

One of the characteristics of epidemics/pandemics is that each country will experience it in it's own timeframe. When you see it devastating another country, it is a really good time to be putting rigorous controls in place in your own and preparing for the inevitable impact which your common sense should be telling you is coming.
One might have thought that the example of the SARS epidemic, the annual global 'Flu season, and all the "Pandemic movies" might have suggested to governments that it might be a good idea to prepare a "Plan" for the inevitable. Did anybody do that? No.
Every country has been caught 'flat-footed' and has only taken it seriously when it became very clear that they were in BIG trouble. Many people still don't get it.
Hopefully when the next big one happens (and it WILL happen) we will all have a Plan.

On a positive note, my wife was able to buy a pack of a dozen toilet rolls today. She limited her purchase to ONE pack so that others will get a go.

One thing to note which is very nuanced is the fact that in the movies the pathogen kills by some gory blood coming out of places, in the real world the virus kills silently: what I am saying is there is no shock value so YES people are NOT moved to action at first sight,I think it eventually more lethal because you are lulled into a false sense of security

There is an Old joke that goes like this:

Reporter: how where you able to seize control and take power
Dictator: it was a bloodless coup
Reporter: so no one died in the coup
Dictator: No, many people died they were just strangled to death


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swatty]

Originally Posted by Hungry Eyes

Sorry to hear that, Raffy. Good idea.

Swatty, here’s also hoping your dad is okay. I organised a postal vote for my 70-year old dad, but still, he insisted on walking to the nearest booth to lodge a pre-poll vote. It’s disgraceful we haven’t seen the “draconian” measures to enforce isolation that Morrison hinted at last weekend after photos of a packed Bondi Beach; nothing short will keep my vulnerable and stubborn dad from going into town when he feels the need.

Thanks mate, welcome the TRF btw

[mountainjogger]

There are 10 stranded cruise ships that cannot find a port which will permit them to disembark passengers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...turn-them-away

In humanitarian terms, I sympathize with the passengers. But I shuddered when cruise lines offered massive discounts and people kept going. And I have to ask, what were these people thinking, and what were the cruise lines thinking when they carried on as business as usual?

Stay safe.

[Brew]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

And I have to ask, what were these people thinking, and what were the cruise lines thinking when they carried on as business as usual?

Stay safe.

This one is easy, unfortunately . . . .

[77T]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

There are 10 stranded cruise ships that cannot find a port which will permit them to disembark passengers.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...turn-them-away



In humanitarian terms, I sympathize with the passengers. But I shuddered when cruise lines offered massive discounts and people kept going. And I have to ask, what were these people thinking, and what were the cruise lines thinking when they carried on as business as usual?



Stay safe.

It is a recipe for disaster if they aren’t allowed to dock soon. I do agree that we might scratch our heads at those who went on their cruise. But I’d say this TRF group reading the good posts here are more informed than the average cruise passenger.

Did you see the part about the call center sales script? If a prospect asked about coronavirus the answer was along the lines that it only lived in cold climates - so a cruise in the sunny tropics would be just fine.

Last thought, the Guardian writers cited the Washington Post - who, in turn, misunderstood the difference between flagging ships vs corporate registration.

For example NCCL flags ships as Bahamian, it’s holding company is domiciled in Bermuda, and is headquartered in Miami. Therefore they are a US taxed outfit. I believe they will be getting a bail out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[alphadweller]

Wuhan is starting to relax lockdown measures, very slowly in few areas and under close observation. No new cases of infected were reported yesterday.

On April 8th China should completely lift the lockdown, 2 1/2 months after it was established back in Jan 23rd. Gives us an idea of how long this first wave could last in the best case scenario.

Let's hope we'll have vaccines by the time the second wave is expected to hit in autumn.

Stay home, stay safe. God bless us all.

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by alphadweller

Wuhan is starting to relax lockdown measures, very slowly in few areas and under close observation. No new cases of infected were reported yesterday.

On April 8th China should completely lift the lockdown, 2 1/2 months after it was established back in Jan 23rd. Gives us an idea of how long this first wave could last in the best case scenario.

Let's hope we'll have vaccines by the time the second wave is expected to hit in autumn.

Stay home, stay safe. God bless us all.

The natives are getting restless...

Massive Protest Breaks Out in China’s Hubei Province, Ground Zero for the Coronavirus

https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...e-coronavirus/

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by alphadweller

Wuhan is starting to relax lockdown measures, very slowly in few areas and under close observation. No new cases of infected were reported yesterday.

On April 8th China should completely lift the lockdown, 2 1/2 months after it was established back in Jan 23rd. Gives us an idea of how long this first wave could last in the best case scenario.

Let's hope we'll have vaccines by the time the second wave is expected to hit in autumn.

Stay home, stay safe. God bless us all.

No European country, nor the USA, can emulate what the Chinese have done. There lockdown means lockdown: checkpoints guarding a limited number of entrances to towns and cities; temperature checks and enforced curfews; all non-essential business shut down; surveillance at transport hubs.

Here, lockdown means please, please pretty please stay inside, unless you need to exercise or walk the dog; try not to travel to work if it’s not essential, unless you want to; ditto using public transport; don’t congregate in parks unless you want a stern telling off etc etc.

Hopefully what we can do and implement is enough.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by 77T

It is a recipe for disaster if they aren’t allowed to dock soon. I do agree that we might scratch our heads at those who went on their cruise. But I’d say this TRF group reading the good posts here are more informed than the average cruise passenger.

Did you see the part about the call center sales script? If a prospect asked about coronavirus the answer was along the lines that it only lived in cold climates - so a cruise in the sunny tropics would be just fine.

Last thought, the Guardian writers cited the Washington Post - who, in turn, misunderstood the difference between flagging ships vs corporate registration.

For example NCCL flags ships as Bahamian, it’s holding company is domiciled in Bermuda, and is headquartered in Miami. Therefore they are a US taxed outfit. I believe they will be getting a bail out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Was unaware of the talking points and just read the story. Simply amazing. Or not, depending on your view of human nature.

On bailout, understand the headquartered issue, prob. need to see the terms of the bill. But there is no free lunch, with headquarters comes court jurisdiction.

A quick google search indicates that the lawsuits have already started. Both stockholder and tort. Plaintiff's lawyers are fishing for clients as we speak (excuse the pun).

Even if they get a bailout, many of these companies' tort exposure is staggering. There is literally blood in the water. My money is on my brethren with the black fins and I suspect that a good portion of the bailout money would wind up going to lawsuits with many bankruptcies in the mix.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

No European country, nor the USA, can emulate what the Chinese have done. There lockdown means lockdown: checkpoints guarding a limited number of entrances to towns and cities; temperature checks and enforced curfews; all non-essential business shut down; surveillance at transport hubs.

Here, lockdown means please, please pretty please stay inside, unless you need to exercise or walk the dog; try not to travel to work if it’s not essential, unless you want to; ditto using public transport; don’t congregate in parks unless you want a stern telling off etc etc.

Hopefully what we can do and implement is enough.

I would rather die of coronavirus then live under that type of control. In fact in order to have the unprecedented freedom the west now enjoys many millions of people had to die in battle.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by alphadweller

Let's hope we'll have vaccines by the time the second wave is expected to hit in autumn.

Unless they can change the technology and or the trial and approval process, I fear the date is more like next autumn.

Stay safe.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

No European country, nor the USA, can emulate what the Chinese have done. There lockdown means lockdown: checkpoints guarding a limited number of entrances to towns and cities; temperature checks and enforced curfews; all non-essential business shut down; surveillance at transport hubs.

Here, lockdown means please, please pretty please stay inside, unless you need to exercise or walk the dog; try not to travel to work if it’s not essential, unless you want to; ditto using public transport; don’t congregate in parks unless you want a stern telling off etc etc.

Hopefully what we can do and implement is enough.

Actually in Italy the situation is quite similar. No one will shoot you but we have everything you mentioned.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I would rather die of coronavirus then live under that type of control. In fact in order to have the unprecedented freedom the west now enjoys many millions of people had to die in battle.

I concur (well, maybe not the dying bit...)

Originally Posted by fmc000

Actually in Italy the situation is quite similar. No one will shoot you but we have everything you mentioned.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

Are the measures having to be enforced or is the population voluntarily agreeing to comply en masse? I ask because a significant minority here seem to just be doing what they want and as yet nothing besides the disapproval of wider society stops them from doing so.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I would rather die of coronavirus then live under that type of control. In fact in order to have the unprecedented freedom the west now enjoys many millions of people had to die in battle.

Even as my lungs burn while typing this, yeah, I'd rather not see such draconian measures here. Chicagoans are by and large complying and staying home. Lake Michigan beaches are closed. Riverwalk is closed too, but that was already empty when I walked along it a few mornings ago.