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Old 28 September 2020, 05:21 PM   #31
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Still love Panerai after all these years... And of course they have a shared history with Rolex. I think that some Rolex fans who deride Panerai are unaware of this.
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Old 28 September 2020, 05:39 PM   #32
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Panerai is now back to a enthusiast brand. Thank God. Rolex can keep all their commodity speculators. I am from the mind set these are luxury watches you should easily be able to afford and wear and enjoy. Worrying about resale is a mute point if you really can afford the watch in its proper luxury purchase context. I watched the Rolex demographic changed the brand significantly to the worse as soon as price became the main talking point. Then worrying about hairline scratches soon followed. Then the "is it safe".... Its obviously these are not folks that can comfortable wear a luxury watch so why all the stress and concern if they truly can afford such a opulent purchase?????
very true. I think the rolex brand and demographic has really changed in just 5-10 years. Before you could still associate rolex sport watches as "tool" at least toolish watches. Now i think they have crossed a threshold that they become too high end luxury. maybe other brands can take advantage of this
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Old 28 September 2020, 11:09 PM   #33
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Its so funny. I see way more Panerai's on the wrists of 'famous' people than I do Rolex.

The 'demise' of Panerai is 'fake news'
No kidding. Same goes for the athletes. I can’t turn on the NFL network without spotting a Panerai.



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Old 28 September 2020, 11:18 PM   #34
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I previously had a 275 and a 682 (display back).
Love the distinctive Panerai cases and clean dial designs.

And the feature set of the 275 and current 317 though those are very atypical and nontraditional for PAMs.

I like Panerai's continual push for new case materials and movements.
Who knows where they'll be in 10, 20 years.
But at least their distinctive designs will set them apart in the market.

Love how each piece here are so different from the others.

This is a hell of a example of how “the big black luxury watch” works so well in a collection. No one does the luxury black watch better than Panerai IMO. This is what makes Panerai exciting to me as their timeless designs work in SS, PM and proprietary high tech materials. That opens up the world to Panerai with not being locked down to the same old medium.

Fantastic diversity with just those three watches.
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Old 2 October 2020, 02:32 PM   #35
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I am a huge Panerai fan and have been with the brand since the early 2000's. I have owned 30-40 watches over that time and have had as many as 5-7 in the collection at one time. I have studied the brand and have a fair working knowledge of the history. Panerai was a marketing genius and they have presented products over the years that play to masculine owners and fans of the unique. It is all hype and if you do the research Panerai is a marketing wonder not a watch making wonder. The brand is dead as we knew it and what has replaced it is a mess. Where do you start, cases and materials, prices, SE and LE watches reproduced the next year or so killing the values of the watches. Panerai, not Rolex or PP, brought the hype to watches at Boutiques and drove prices on the secondary market with the lack of availability. With all that said I still like the brand and currently own a 1389 and a boatload of straps. But I am not impressed with the direction of the company and if it did not have Richemont as an owner they would have been done long ago. Will the brand rise again, I doubt it, and that may be the point.
Whew. Take that! What a statement.

As an old school Panerai fan (still have my two black preVs) I am not surprised. I have not looked at Panerai in years because I felt pretty much what William's post states. The revival of Panerai as a brand was brilliant--the locking crown feature, giant case and minimalist dial contributed to instant recognition. And it was not crazy expensive. But soon came the endless succession of LEs based on not much history and freebies for celebrity wrists. As they say in Firenze: someone had been "avdo, pigro e sbadato". Cos'e il marketing? E hora de fare del duro lavoro!
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Old 2 October 2020, 08:36 PM   #36
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I like Panerais direction. They reinvigorated me with all the focus on 42mm Subs. Many old school Panerai fans dislike this move, but it brought me back to the brand. I know others who came around because of the Due, and still others who are only here because of all the materials tech. Big tent approach and every time I walk into a Boutique now there is plenty of activity. Will the brand reach the heights of the early 2000's again? I doubt it. But I think they seem to be doing okay by diversifying away from just 47mm Rads and Lums.
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Old 3 October 2020, 12:44 AM   #37
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Your Honour,I can go on for a while ,but at this stage I will rest my case .
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Old 3 October 2020, 03:50 AM   #38
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42mm Sub goodness
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Old 4 October 2020, 12:32 AM   #39
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Panerai screwed up big time by doing things like mixing a Cali dial with a PVD case

Imagine Rolex giving the Daytona a Jubilee bracelet or somehow put a panda dial in a submariner case

The old Panerai with its root in the Italian Navy has long gone. 47mm is historical correct and that is beautiful. It is big but that is how a military watch at that era is supposed to look. Once Panerai started releasing complicated dials in fancy composite case or Luminor in 42,40...etc the flavour is gone and the brand is ruined.

44mm Luminor is fine since they were released by the original Panerai family before Vendome bought the brand.
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Old 4 October 2020, 07:44 AM   #40
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i see lots mentioned Rolex/Patek jn this thread, I think when people start to mention Panerai in Rolex/ Patek thread is when it actually becomes relevant again.


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Old 5 October 2020, 05:40 AM   #41
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I previously reluctant Panerai due to the size of my skinny wrists. However their move to smaller sizes spurred me to go with an open mind. The New Bond St boutique has IMO SA’s who were refreshingly honest about how the watches actually wear.
During my time there trying on various references from Luminor & Submersible range, a small (maybe due to Covid restrictions) but steady stream of HNW clients arrived. By the way various staff acted (jumped to greet them) it was clear they were well acquainted with the boutique.
No pressure from the SA, I opted for the 1392. Friendly/professional staff. They hoped I would return.
Left NBS with head held high which was the opposite of an AD of a certain brand.
Excellent first experience of Panerai. I will be back
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Old 11 October 2020, 10:15 PM   #42
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I recently got into the brand a year ago and had my eyes set on several of the base models, 000 etc & finally landed on a very clean full set sandwich dial 111. Definitely very cool watches.
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Old 12 October 2020, 12:27 PM   #43
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My PAM's have been in the collection the longest.
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Old 13 October 2020, 01:10 AM   #44
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Most watch brands do not hold their value the minute you walk out of a store with a model. That's never been the benchmark for me regarding Panerai or any other brand. I have owned the 024, 005, 372, 514, 1312, 1305, and 610 at various times. Unfortunately none have stuck around and have made room for other pieces from other brands.

I think Panerai makes some really great models. Their Luminor 1950 case is well finished and sleek. I love their ceramic models. I appreciate some of the newer novel materials they are trying to incorporate into cases.

I have found over time that the 44mm models are probably the best suited for my wrist. I think you have to sift through a lot of models before you find one that really feels right to you. I don't think the brand has done a really great job of having a base, high quality, consistent lineup of pieces at a good price point. Panerai always seems to omit a specific detail from a reference or include a line of text to intentionally "spoil" what it should be. They will use expensive high end case materials as limited editions and then eventually trickle it down to "regular production" models that become the bulk of a collection at a high price point rather than the exception. Look at the big Luminor release this year: a significant percentage of the new pieces are in novel materials at costly price points.

I will always respect Panerai because they have great cases with a great design language unlike any other brand. I think we need more pieces like the 000/005, 111/112, 372, 233. I'd like them to focus on 44mm Submersibles, adding more base manual wind movements into the Radiomir 1940 models. I've probably said this 100 times on this forum.
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Old 31 October 2020, 12:00 PM   #45
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If they make a 372 in 42mm.. I am back in a heartbeat
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Old 1 November 2020, 11:34 AM   #46
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I'd jump on a 372 in 44. I'd have bought that 911 if it was a reasonable price (maybe I'm just looking at the gray price, idk) and not an exclusive hard to get model. I think that sort of exclusivity focus is what has hurt the brand. Also it seems most of the ones I liked over the last few years are 47mm (to big) or if they're 44mm, then they're exclusive boutique models.
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Old 3 November 2020, 02:40 AM   #47
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I've decided to jump back into the pool. Years ago I decided to buy a Pam111 over a Sub because I could not bond Rolex. Over the years, I've collected the most desirable Rolex models and sold them in a heartbeat. They did nothing for me, but apparently, were "good investments" for other folks.

Now I am gonna surprise myself with a PAM for Christmas. Leaning toward PAM590.
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Old 3 November 2020, 06:52 AM   #48
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I'd jump on a 372 in 44. I'd have bought that 911 if it was a reasonable price (maybe I'm just looking at the gray price, idk) and not an exclusive hard to get model. I think that sort of exclusivity focus is what has hurt the brand. Also it seems most of the ones I liked over the last few years are 47mm (to big) or if they're 44mm, then they're exclusive boutique models.
Have you looked at the 390? May be a good 44mm option if you like the 372
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Old 17 November 2020, 08:29 AM   #49
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I have flipped way too many watches to remember. Not for profit, but because I got bored of them. The 111 always stayed.
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Old 18 November 2020, 08:46 AM   #50
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i see lots mentioned Rolex/Patek jn this thread, I think when people start to mention Panerai in Rolex/ Patek thread is when it actually becomes relevant again.


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Old 18 November 2020, 11:46 PM   #51
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Puzzling thread to me, Panerai is more successful today than ever. Isn’t that the point?

Lots of comments here focused on the “collector” and “enthusiast” and how the brand is not the same and has lot those folks. These same sentiments were a regular occurrence on other well known forums in the mid-late 2000’s. I get that point, but it’s almost irrelevant at this point as the core Panerai enthusiast is less important today in number and dollar spend than ever.

Panerai is still one of the strongest, if not THE strongest, design language in watches.
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Old 19 November 2020, 02:37 PM   #52
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I am a huge Panerai fan and have been with the brand since the early 2000's. I have owned 30-40 watches over that time and have had as many as 5-7 in the collection at one time. I have studied the brand and have a fair working knowledge of the history. Panerai was a marketing genius and they have presented products over the years that play to masculine owners and fans of the unique. It is all hype and if you do the research Panerai is a marketing wonder not a watch making wonder. The brand is dead as we knew it and what has replaced it is a mess. Where do you start, cases and materials, prices, SE and LE watches reproduced the next year or so killing the values of the watches. Panerai, not Rolex or PP, brought the hype to watches at Boutiques and drove prices on the secondary market with the lack of availability. With all that said I still like the brand and currently own a 1389 and a boatload of straps. But I am not impressed with the direction of the company and if it did not have Richemont as an owner they would have been done long ago. Will the brand rise again, I doubt it, and that may be the point.
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Old 19 November 2020, 02:59 PM   #53
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I missed the Panerai hype in the 2000s as I only got seriously into watches around 2012/3. I just bought my very first Panerai, Pam233, at the beginning of this year, around late February.
I am smitten by this watch and wear it more often than any of my other watches. It has this unique look, design, simplicity, and masculinity that I really love.
As others have pointed out, it was corporate greed to maximize profits by all the LE and SE, and price increases, cost cutting (pam318 scandal) and other moves that really hurt the brand.
But in my mind, Panerai has a very unique design character and great history that make it a living legend. I definitely could see the brand making a resurgence in the future, under the right management.
Sorry but I just have to show what's today on my wrist :)

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Old 20 November 2020, 03:05 AM   #54
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Im on the same boat, would love a 372 in 44mm, and if I can choose, would love it thinner.
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Old 21 November 2020, 02:22 AM   #55
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Im on the same boat, would love a 372 in 44mm, and if I can choose, would love it thinner.
Agreed on this. The 372 is stunning but too big for my wrists. At 44 I would be throwing my wallet through the boutique window!
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Old 22 November 2020, 07:03 PM   #56
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I'd jump on a 372 in 44. I'd have bought that 911 if it was a reasonable price (maybe I'm just looking at the gray price, idk) and not an exclusive hard to get model. I think that sort of exclusivity focus is what has hurt the brand. Also it seems most of the ones I liked over the last few years are 47mm (to big) or if they're 44mm, then they're exclusive boutique models.

372 in 44 is what I say about the 390... not quite but I thought it was close


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Old 22 November 2020, 08:15 PM   #57
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I'm new to Panerai and during my research I found (without looking for it on purpose) a ton of negative reviews and the whole instagram issue with the official account posting fakes. This is all very disconcerting, hard to ignore the perception of the brand from people .. Having said that, on forums it's usually the exact opposite, a lot of love for the brand. I think I've built up enough courage to purchase one, despite all this negative noise ... but certainly do expect to take a significant loss if I ever decide to part ways. I've narrowed down my search to a sandwich dial with seconds, and no logo.
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Old 23 November 2020, 03:08 AM   #58
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I think I've built up enough courage to purchase one, despite all this negative noise ... but certainly do expect to take a significant loss if I ever decide to part ways
This last sentence should be the expectation any time one buys a watch. Accept that taking a loss when/if it comes time to sell is likely and just enjoy the watch for what it is.

It’s only really in the last ten/fifteen years that we’ve been conditioned to this expectation (set primarily by the vintage Rolex market) that a watch should appreciate in value.

We don’t expect that of our cars - no matter how expensive they may be, genuine rarities aside - and nor should we of our watches.

Nobody bats an eye at paying $75k for a BMW, and then having to sell it for a fraction of that 5 years down the line. We accept that the drop in value is the cost of the time that we get to enjoy it - try to look at your watch purchase the same way, but with far lower stakes, if we’re talking about a Panerai.

And, remember - just like with the hypothetical BMW - if you love your watch, all you have to do is make sure that you keep up with the necessary servicing, and it will be a faithful companion for decades to come.
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Old 23 November 2020, 04:37 AM   #59
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Don’t forget, you need sales to stay in business. If they keep making 20k Submersibles, they will be counting their days to bankruptcy. Let’s face it, they are catering to wealthy clientele. They aren’t releasing 4-5k watches, heck no. They are doing one off Mike Horn adventures and composite material cases.

Panerai make me a 5k watch. That’s all I ask. Make your Mike Horn adventures but make me an affordable watch as well.
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Old 23 November 2020, 05:02 AM   #60
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I want another 44mm sub
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