Question for Vanessa

[JohnBaker3]

Hi:

I have a 1970 Rolex 5513 that I am trying to restore to original specs.

When my jeweler serviced the watch in Dec, he replaced the crown with a Rolex triplock setup.

I have now sourced a 7mm twinlock crown and an aftermarket twinlock tube.

My new watchmaker says the new tube has no splines for his tool and he doesn't know how to install it....

Question: does the twinlock tube not come with splines or do I have an unfinished piece? If it is a proper piece, do you just use the crown to thread it into the case?

Thanks in advance.

(not my pic)

[JohnBaker3]

I think I answered my own question. After reviewing the original part ad, they sent the wrong piece.

The tube should have the splined area inside the upper part of the tube.

I'll send it back for the correct one.

Thanks.

[Vanessa CW21]

Glad you figured it out!

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

Well, it turns out that this question/problem is not as simple as it seems....

The correct Rolex part for the twin-lock tube does NOT have the inside splines to insert it into the case tube threads in the case.

The after-market part photo shown above has been modified to have the splines, but I have yet to source this part; either it is not available or never existed.

I contacted Jocke and he was kind enough to not only explain to me the errors of my ways, but sent me the Rolex Manual pages to show how it was done "in the good old days".

To put in or remove the old style tube, you need some special tools called broaches. These wedge themselves into the inside of the tube and allow torque to be applied. The new style spline tool is a great improvement to say the least.

For now I am still waiting for a modified twin-lock tube; if it arrives, the job will be simple. If not, my watchmaker will have to come up with the old style broaches to finish the job.

More when I have made/lost progress....

Be safe.



PS: Here is Jocke's photo essay on how this worked when he repaired his GMT: http://www.watchwallpapers.com/gt.htm
They show how easy it really is, if you know what you are doing !!

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

The saga continues; on Tuesday another crown tube arrived in the mail from J&K Watches. It was the same, incorrect, triplock tube as the first one ordered, in spite of the detailed info I put onto the order sheet...they refuse to answer eBay's inquiry nor call me with an explanation. Their eBay auction photo is totally different from the part they keep sending.

So today, I took the original twinlock tube (without the splined insert) back to my jeweler. He will get to work on it and attempt to insert it using the new crown and Locktite on the tube threads. If it holds, he will attach the stem to the crown and we're good to go.

If not, he will remove the tube and clean it. I will then try to find a watchmaker/clockmaker that has the necessary broaches to insert the tube as shown by Jocke....

I sure hope this vintage stuff isn't always this complicated....

[christoph1]

Hi Guys. I am new to the forum and had a question. I am looking to author an article but want to get pricing for specific models of Rolex to compare the appreciation over time. Can anyone help me? I would like the prices to be from Christies, Sotheby's or a similar auction. Here are the watches.

Rolex Daytona 7240
Rolex Daytona 7344
Rolex Daytona 4661

Any numbers that you can provide for any other models would be much appreciated as well.

[gmg_3]

Did you try the tubes from wholesaleoutlet990 on ebay? His pictures look right and priced at $50.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by gmg_3

Did you try the tubes from wholesaleoutlet990 on ebay? His pictures look right and priced at $50.

That is the tube I ended up with since I couldn't source and original one.

My first watchmaker used the crown to thread-in the tube and sealed it with thread locker. After re-attaching the crown and stem, it wouldn't screw down all the way and it was difficult to wind in position #1; not enough clearance.

Sooooo, I took it to a clockmaker/watchmaker and he thinks the tube was machined to the wrong length (he verifed it was screwed in flush with the case). He plans to mill off about 1/16 " and that should solve all the problems.

I had a lengthy email with Wholesale Outlet tech support; I told them if their supplier could make a "modified" twin-lock tube with the splined insert, it would make everyone's life easier AND make them a lot of cash...

Still waiting....

Be safe.

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by christoph1

Hi Guys. I am new to the forum and had a question. I am looking to author an article but want to get pricing for specific models of Rolex to compare the appreciation over time. Can anyone help me? I would like the prices to be from Christies, Sotheby's or a similar auction. Here are the watches.

Rolex Daytona 7240
Rolex Daytona 7344
Rolex Daytona 4661

Any numbers that you can provide for any other models would be much appreciated as well.

It's considered bad form to hijack a thread instead of just starting a new one.

Welcome to TRF anyway...

[Rikki]

Original tubes from that era had no splines and were installed with a tapered broach, then the tube itself was broached out to fit the stem and crown. It also must be locktited with 270 Green locktite which acts as a sealent and adhesive. Rikki

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by Rikki

Original tubes from that era had no splines and were installed with a tapered broach, then the tube itself was broached out to fit the stem and crown. It also must be locktited with 270 Green locktite which acts as a sealent and adhesive. Rikki

Thanks for your input Rikki; I hope we are near the end of the journey. The clockmaker has had the watch for a week now. With a little luck he should get to it sometime this week.

This should be the last thing needed to make this vintage watch "correct". Next time I'll tackle something a little less "involved".

I hope anyone with a similar problem has a head-start on what needs to be done.

[JohnBaker3]

You know what? Instead of waiting around for the watchmaker to finish the job, maybe we should just make our own case tube from scratch !! Guaranteed to fit; all we need is the right equipment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGkKb...9w0gTq9KC5P9KZ

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

You know what? Instead of waiting around for the watchmaker to finish the job, maybe we should just make our own case tube from scratch !! Guaranteed to fit; all we need is the right equipment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGkKb...9w0gTq9KC5P9KZ

A good bit easier to make if you don't have to cut any threads!

I love that he holds the cutting tools by hand rather than mount them into a slide; you can tell he's been doing this for a while...

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

Two weeks have passed and I stopped by to visit with the clockmaker who is working on my case tube.

He has the movement out and is filing down the tube length by hand. He has the crown down to within 1/32" of the case. His biggest issue is smoothing off the top edge so that the crown gasket isn't chewed up by any sharp points.

He promises to call me as soon as it's completed; he's tired of looking at it too!

[Brad737]

Why did he remove the original tube in the first place? Too worn?

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by Brad737

Why did he remove the original tube in the first place? Too worn?

Brad:

The end of the crown was worn off; he had no access to vintage parts, so he upgraded to the newer trip-lock crown and tube.

Rolex doesn't do much to help with vintage parts; the only source is the "secondary" market. In the past 3 months, I have only seen 1 original twin-lock tube for sale; it sold before I could even bid on it....

I just got back from the watch shop and it's FINALLY finished. It now has the "correct" crown and I sourced a 1970 C+I bracelel too....I think it's time o get a new hobby!

[rmfnla]

Looks great!

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

Looks great!

Thanks Richard!

After fiddling with the watch for a while, it seems that it's still too difficult to wind the watch in the 1st position for the crown...

My diagnosis: the crown tube is now correct but the stem is TOO SHORT!

No idea why the watchmakers never mentioned this, but it is what it is....

I have ordered an "uncut" stem and will take it back to the watchmaker; I estimate that it needs to be about 1.5 mm longer than it is now...

Bottom Line: The crown, the case tube, AND the winding stem work together as a "team". If any one of them isn't correct, nobody is going to be happy...

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

The research continues as I wait for the chance to install the new stem....

I have found that Rolex made and sold some "improved" versions of the 24-7000 crown tube. It had splines cut into the bottom end of the tube and required a smaller version of the tube tool to fit.

Today I came across a VRF auction for complete twinlock crown and tubes; only 500 Euros...

For future uses, I have sourced one genuine Rolex 24-7000 tube; I have also sourced an after market tube from Hong Kong from a seller with good feedback.

If you are trying to take your 5512/5513/1680 back to the original twinlock setup, you will have your work cut out for you. You will need to track down the parts and find a watchmaker willing to work with you; otherwise you will likely end up with a triplock "upgrade"....

Be safe.



Photos from internet sources

[rmfnla]

I am aware of the desire to keep vintage pieces as original as possible, but the engineer in me thinks the upgrade from twin to triple lock is a good one.

Remember, to us "form follows function"...

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

I am aware of the desire to keep vintage pieces as original as possible, but the engineer in me thinks the upgrade from twin to triple lock is a good one.

Remember, to us "form follows function"...

Richard:

If my watch was going to be a "daily driver" and even go into the water, then you're absolutely correct.

However, as an investment watch that is rarely worn and will NEVER see the water's edge, then I think that going back to "original" is a realistic goal.

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

Richard:

If my watch was going to be a "daily driver" and even go into the water, then you're absolutely correct.

However, as an investment watch that is rarely worn and will NEVER see the water's edge, then I think that going back to "original" is a realistic goal.

That does make sense...

[JohnBaker3]

OK....it's finally finished. Today, my watchmaker changed out the winding stem for one that was 1.5 mm longer than the original.

The crown now clears the case tube enough to allow for winding in position 1 and time setting in position 2.

I think that this took WAY LONGER than needed, but c'est la vie....

I love the watch and it was worth it; the next project will NOT be this convoluted!!

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

OK....it's finally finished. Today, my watchmaker changed out the winding stem for one that was 1.5 mm longer than the original.

The crown now clears the case tube enough to allow for winding in position 1 and time setting in position 2.

I think that this took WAY LONGER than needed, but c'est la vie....

I love the watch and it was worth it; the next project will NOT be this convoluted!!

Famous last words...

Looks great, though; nice job!

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

Famous last words...

Looks great, though; nice job!

Thanks Larry and you are most likely, 100% correct, again !!

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

Thanks Larry and you are most likely, 100% correct, again !!

I'm Richard, but you're welcome anyway...

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

I'm Richard, but you're welcome anyway...

Brain fart from an old fart.....I'll do better next time good friend!

[rmfnla]

A senior moment, Bob; we all get them!

Have a great weekend...

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

A senior moment, Bob; we all get them!

Have a great weekend...

Who's Bob?

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

My genuine Rolex case tube #24-7000 came in from Croatia today. It has the splines located inside the small end (the end that actually threads into the watch case).

If you count back 3 photos, you can see what it looks like....

The stem clears through the opening with room to spare. However, the inside of the threaded hub of the crown does not...

This means that after inserting the crown tube with the smaller size spline tool, the tube must be broached out to let the crown seat all the way down into the case...

Therefore, the best overall design for the twin-lock case tube would be a type 3 with the splines cut into the large end of the tube (inside the crown thread area)....

Good luck trying to source one, because I'm not sure they were ever made by Rolex and the after-market suppliers haven't got a clue...



PS J&K Watches have since removed their eBay photo shown near the top of the thread with the "mystery" tube with splines at the top...they have replaced it with the standard trip-lock tube....
It was most likely a 6 mm tube for a GMT case...