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Old 3 June 2014, 04:30 AM   #31
rmfnla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
Applying the sticker can trap little pockets of air underneath. When submerged in the test chamber, the air gets squeezed out giving a false positive for leakage.
Sounds plausible.

Do you know this for a fact or is it a hypothesis..?
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Old 3 June 2014, 06:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
Applying the sticker can trap little pockets of air underneath. When submerged in the test chamber, the air gets squeezed out giving a false positive for leakage.
"Little pockets of air"!
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Old 3 June 2014, 06:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
Applying the sticker can trap little pockets of air underneath. When submerged in the test chamber, the air gets squeezed out giving a false positive for leakage.
My bicycle tires use a rubber inner tube that is designed to trap air from leaking...they go flat in about 6 weeks.

Imho, I find it very challenging to even consider that any air would be trapped behind a paper sticker after 14 years.

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Old 3 June 2014, 07:26 AM   #34
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It's likely that the "Tech" who did the test is not a watchmaker but only somebody who has minimal training on a "dry tester".

These testers are a chamber with a dial indicator touching the top of the crystal. As it is pressurized the theory is that if the case is leaking it will let air inside the case, and the case will expand slightly, indicated by the dial indicator. A sticker on the back can give a false movement to the dial indicator.

I would find someplace with a real watchmaker and proper tester that actually shows where the case is leaking from when it fails..
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Old 3 June 2014, 08:09 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtona View Post
My bicycle tires use a rubber inner tube that is designed to trap air from leaking...they go flat in about 6 weeks.

Imho, I find it very challenging to even consider that any air would be trapped behind a paper sticker after 14 years.

You're probably right...
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Old 3 June 2014, 11:14 AM   #36
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One more update:
I spoke with Rik Dietel today about replacing the seals and gaskets on this watch, and he said that yes, the caseback sticker can indeed create a false positive in a pressure test.
He lost me when he started talking about microns, and how exactly it can throw off the test, but it's not as bunk as we'd thought.

That said, he did recommend that I send it in for a full service, as a watch of this age might still contain some natural oils in addition to synthetics. I was pleasantly surprised at both his prices and his turnaround times. As soon as I can bear to part with it, it's off to Florida.

Thanks to all who weighed in, and especially to Sublover2166 for pointing me to Rikki; I've heard great things about him over the years and it was nice to finally speak with him.

Best,
-Grant
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Old 4 June 2014, 03:23 AM   #37
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Well, if Rik said it I believe it...
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Old 4 June 2014, 03:30 AM   #38
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Last update: Sticker off, watch passed.

Today I brought the watch back to Tourneau, this time with the caseback sticker removed, and it passed a pressure test. The watchmaker said one of the machines they use detects minute degrees of flex, either in the crystal or the caseback, and that the sticker, being extremely pliable, can flex, creating a false positive.

Suffice it to say I'm relieved I don't have to part with my new watch for service just yet. That said, as soon as I can bear to part with it, it's off to Rikki.

Thanks again all,
-GW
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Old 4 June 2014, 04:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Web View Post
Last update: Sticker off, watch passed.

Today I brought the watch back to Tourneau, this time with the caseback sticker removed, and it passed a pressure test. The watchmaker said one of the machines they use detects minute degrees of flex, either in the crystal or the caseback, and that the sticker, being extremely pliable, can flex, creating a false positive.

Suffice it to say I'm relieved I don't have to part with my new watch for service just yet. That said, as soon as I can bear to part with it, it's off to Rikki.

Thanks again all,
-GW
I'd like to know the model of that pressure tester, because mine has never had the issue with the stickers. Oh well, we learn something every day.
Happy for you that the watch passed!
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Old 4 June 2014, 04:20 AM   #40
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Hi Vanessa,

I went so far as to ask today, because I knew a couple folks on this board might be interested. It's the Witschi Proofmaster S.

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-Grant
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Old 4 June 2014, 04:24 AM   #41
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Hi Vanessa,

I went so far as to ask today, because I knew a couple folks on this board might be interested. It's the Witschi Proofmaster S.

Best,
-Grant
Awesome! I like the way you think
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Old 4 June 2014, 04:28 AM   #42
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Thanks Vanessa.
This has been a fun little saga, with a happy ending no less.
And honestly, I'm just relieved I can wear my new Explorer to the beach later this month, worry free.

Best all,
-Grant
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Old 4 June 2014, 11:26 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Web View Post
One more update:
I spoke with Rik Dietel today about replacing the seals and gaskets on this watch, and he said that yes, the caseback sticker can indeed create a false positive in a pressure test.
He lost me when he started talking about microns, and how exactly it can throw off the test, but it's not as bunk as we'd thought.

That said, he did recommend that I send it in for a full service, as a watch of this age might still contain some natural oils in addition to synthetics. I was pleasantly surprised at both his prices and his turnaround times. As soon as I can bear to part with it, it's off to Florida.

Thanks to all who weighed in, and especially to Sublover2166 for pointing me to Rikki; I've heard great things about him over the years and it was nice to finally speak with him.

Best,
-Grant
Rik is a great guy. Wish there were more folks in the world like him. Glad I could help.
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Old 4 June 2014, 10:45 PM   #44
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The Dry testing machines test watches in nano meters of flex or expansion that's a billionth of a meter so the plastic sticker being a rather soft plastic can compress more than that under test load giving the wrong reading. Now if it was water tested in say a Roxer Natator then the sticker wouldn't make any difference because just sitting in the tester with no contact to any measuring instruments it's just pressure on the case. Rikki
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Old 4 June 2014, 10:54 PM   #45
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Failing proper testing? You should just sell that heap of dung to me instead! :-)

Enjoy the new piece! Just like if you park a car for 14 years, a bit of maintentance is fully expected.
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Old 5 June 2014, 02:37 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
The Dry testing machines test watches in nano meters of flex or expansion that's a billionth of a meter so the plastic sticker being a rather soft plastic can compress more than that under test load giving the wrong reading. Now if it was water tested in say a Roxer Natator then the sticker wouldn't make any difference because just sitting in the tester with no contact to any measuring instruments it's just pressure on the case. Rikki
So it doesn't have anything to do with bubbles... thanks!
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Old 5 June 2014, 04:43 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
The Dry testing machines test watches in nano meters of flex or expansion that's a billionth of a meter so the plastic sticker being a rather soft plastic can compress more than that under test load giving the wrong reading. Now if it was water tested in say a Roxer Natator then the sticker wouldn't make any difference because just sitting in the tester with no contact to any measuring instruments it's just pressure on the case. Rikki

Very interesting ,i ve always thought dry testers measuring crystal flex ,does it mean a sticker can cause wrong results in both ways?
Please explain.thanks
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Old 7 June 2014, 01:23 PM   #48
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I wonder if they had it on a winder of some kind. I am actually surprised that it worked after 14 years assuming it was stagnant. Usually the oil crusts and they don't run. That is what happened to my dads Rolex. He didn't use it for a few years and when he started using it again it would stop during midday and stop after about an hour after taking it off. The gentleman at the AD right before sending it off to be serviced stated that it is better to use it and scratch it rather than leaving it stagnant. He compared it to a gasoline engine that hasn't been used in a while. Since then he uses his Rolex and hasn't had problems since
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Old 7 June 2014, 09:25 PM   #49
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Great thread. Learned something new about pressure testing. OP, enjoy the new watch and glad to hear it's still in good shape after all these years!
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