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10 January 2010, 10:04 AM | #31 |
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10 January 2010, 10:27 AM | #32 |
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Yup. Got a nice 14K OP circa 1955. Looks great, runs fast. Gotta ship it out. Already talking to Bob Ridley. (And every time I see his name, I think it says Boo Radley. LOL)
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10 January 2010, 10:28 AM | #33 |
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It is not about price with us. It’s about quality of work. We have demanding customers that want there watch to run extremely well so if you under stood what it takes to do a proper est. on vintage Rolexes with worn parts, you might not say the same about our charges. Our customers come to us because we are recommended. I do agree about price gauging by under qualified repairmen as well as the qualified but this is a business and if you have low over head could mean inferior tools used to repair for cheaper price, I’m not interested. Look these are not cheap watches if you own an expensive car you understand it’s in the car best interest to bring to qualified up to date mechanic. You see it is hard to type everything that’s happening in the repair field right now but things are changing for instance I have more than $10,000 dollars in Updated training in the last year. whereas some of the other guys cry about free education go figure....that why the new 21st century certification that is being required by Rolex is being failed at 50% it is $1700 to take test but I do believe you have a right to think the way you do but without education it is just an opinion based..
PS I will follow up after checking the site for watchdoc Thanks Michael The watchmaker |
10 January 2010, 11:31 PM | #34 |
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Experience can be the best teacher. I went to law school for 3 years, and didn't learn crap till I get to Court and started "doing".
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2016 Explorer 214270 Mk2 - 1996 Submariner 14060* - 1972 Datejust 1601 1972 Oyster Perpetual 1002 - 1978 Oysterquartz 17000 Omega Seamaster 2265.80 - Omega Seamaster 300 166.0324 *RIP PAL 1942-2015 |
11 January 2010, 03:40 AM | #35 |
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Cheapest isn't always the best, BUT
sometimes we get carried away by the idea that if it isn't the most expensive, it isn't the best. In some cases the best is the best, in some cases it's because the individual, business, etc. hypes themselves to the point that public perception makes them the best. We see this in all areas of life. Restaurants, automobiles, clothing, you name it. Sometimes we buy the sizzle instead of the steak.
I agree with horoligier, if you have a rare, irreplaceable piece, you want to send it to the folks who are the best at doing what you need to have done. On the other hand if your watch is a model that is fairly common, I believe that a well trained and well recommended qualified Rolex certified watch repair person should be able to perform the service as well as one of the super elite watchmakers. Some of us don't have gazilliions of dollars to support our watch habit. That doesn't mean that we don't love the few watches we have in our "collection", it just means that we need to not be wasteful with what we do. I went to www.watchrestoration.com just to see what they were charging. I'm sure they offer the very best in service, but to charge 125-150 for and estimate seems pretty pricy. Also unanswered was ,does the estimate become part of the total price if you chose to have them service the watch, or is it a separate and freestanding charge? Another thing that caught my eye was down at the bottom of the page after listing all the various services and prices, was the statement “Ask about our Premium Services”. What does this mean? If you get the “Regular” service, it will be OK, but if you really want our undivided attention, you need to request “premium” service. That seems like me going in a patients room and saying” I can give you pretty good anesthesia for xx price, but if you want the cardiac monitor, blood pressure machine and the latest drugs, you have to sign up for “premium” anesthesia. Just my .002 Arthur |
11 January 2010, 03:46 AM | #36 |
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Peter, you are so right
I spent three years in anesthesia training, and I learned more in the first six months out on my own practicing in a rural hospital, with no "Safety net" of staff fellow residents, etc., than I learned in the three years of training. Experience is a great teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson later.
Arthur |
11 January 2010, 03:46 AM | #37 | |
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Quote:
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2016 Explorer 214270 Mk2 - 1996 Submariner 14060* - 1972 Datejust 1601 1972 Oyster Perpetual 1002 - 1978 Oysterquartz 17000 Omega Seamaster 2265.80 - Omega Seamaster 300 166.0324 *RIP PAL 1942-2015 |
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11 January 2010, 05:42 AM | #38 | |
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Quote:
Thanks guys!!! this is all good I like to see what is happening out there and what customers getting there watches serviced really feel it help me provide better service and understanding for what we provide to our customers Really check out www.AWCI.com its not the most informed but a good start Michael The watchmaker |
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11 January 2010, 05:59 AM | #39 | |
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Quote:
Watch EST are FREE if you have repair done this protects against tier kickers just like Lawyers there sometimes is a fee. Michael The watchmaker |
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11 January 2010, 07:53 AM | #40 | |
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The client may not hire me for that case, but will remember I spent the time to review their case and might come back to me for another matter. Just the way I do business.
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2016 Explorer 214270 Mk2 - 1996 Submariner 14060* - 1972 Datejust 1601 1972 Oyster Perpetual 1002 - 1978 Oysterquartz 17000 Omega Seamaster 2265.80 - Omega Seamaster 300 166.0324 *RIP PAL 1942-2015 |
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11 January 2010, 09:46 AM | #41 |
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Peter please understand I said sometime, not all lawyer charge a fee. In our business model we have to protect our time because some of the research involved in finding parts. Taking watch apart, Diagnosing problem ect... We still have to put back together if est. not approved.... this is not ten min job or even two hour job. While the est. cost us a bit of money in time to do so. I understand other part of it as well. We are talking about simple going over. The watches that just have simple going over wear a lot quicker then professionally serviced.... Again we do a lot of Vintage repairs. this is not new watch service that I am talking about but include what we do for new watches as well.... as far as our Premium service it is to replace certain parts that still function properly but have a microscopic wear and in next 10 -20 year when parts not easily and available as well much more expensive. We replace them now at a small fee just for parts. Example Double Red sea dweller used in under water research and was presented to scientist by Rolex in his underwater habitat or laboratory in late 60s (49 years old) we were recommend for the restoration and offered this Premium service as the parts that commonly wear in time are still available but not for long. The price for the parts replaced is almost double your cost of service from the guy you use. We are a specialty service that are used by clients who want their watches to run better then factory service or simple service.
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11 January 2010, 09:54 AM | #42 |
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11 January 2010, 10:05 AM | #43 | |
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Please don't take me the wrong way. You provide a service and I am sure you are good at what you do. I do understand the restoration aspect. I am really referring to the watch that just needs cleaning and lubrication, not major surgery. All is good, and if I ever need a restoration, I will come a knockin!
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2016 Explorer 214270 Mk2 - 1996 Submariner 14060* - 1972 Datejust 1601 1972 Oyster Perpetual 1002 - 1978 Oysterquartz 17000 Omega Seamaster 2265.80 - Omega Seamaster 300 166.0324 *RIP PAL 1942-2015 |
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11 January 2010, 10:06 AM | #44 |
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I seen a great Thread about our topic here and sheds some light about the processes on watch service.please look at this thread our site (An Argument For Routine Maintenance...)
Michael The watchmaker |
11 January 2010, 10:14 AM | #45 |
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As most have said, at a RSC you'll expect to pay 550-600 USD for a service.
I have used QualityTyme.net (John Brozek) and his site advertises for a basic service: Complete Rolex Overhaul: Late models (with Sapphire Crystal): Starting at $365 Complete Rolex Overhaul: Older models (with Plastic Crystal): Starting at $395 Complete Rolex Overhaul: Chronograph models: Starting at $445 Vintage watch refinishing and restoration: By estimate Other parts are extra. He did a fine job on my '72 Air-King
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11 January 2010, 02:21 PM | #46 | |
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I'm not underestimating what you do, If I had a very valuable watch that required service to bring it back to the best condition possible, I would not hesitate to use your services.I believe that what Peter and I are talking about is a routine service on a watch that is either within the time parameters of Rolex Service, or one that is just outside the parameters, not a watch that I would consider to be very high end or exotic. It's sort of like specialized surgery. If you needed a cardiac bypass, would you go to a surgeon who did two a month, or one who did two a day? To me that would be and easy answer. I would go to the one who did it every day. Of course I would check him out to make sure he wasn't working for the local funeral home!! lol Seriously though, I have had Bob Ridley work on several watches for me and while he wasn't cheap, the work was outstanding.The cost was a small consideration considering the quality of the work he performed. Like you, I can appreciate the cost of training. I have to have a certain number of continuing education hours every years to be able to keep my certification as well as purchase insurance. It's expensive, and if you work for yourself, time off from work is income lost as well. It's well worth it to keep up with all the latest innovations and equipment. It would be very easy to add an addendum to your estimate statement that the price of the estimate is included free if the service is performed in your shop. I feel certain that would clear up a lot of questions about the estimate. also a short explanation as to what constitutes "Premium Service" would be helpful as well. Thanks very much for the valuable insight and information. Arthur |
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11 January 2010, 02:50 PM | #47 |
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Thank you Arthur for advice. you are riight about the web info LOL. and Bob Ridley is an awsome guy I know him we have talked a bit about education in the past. I should call and say hello to him more often.
There is a problem in our industry right now in that we have a lot.... of watchmakers even well trained that can do great work but are not keeping up with the times and equipment. The watch will run with aftermarket parts I have seen them come into my shop so you better believe that they don’t have big company account or if they do won’t have for long. Things are changing and the big companies are getting tired of poor quality get in and out cheap service. There really truly is no way to service these watches for $150 -250 and do it right without cutting corner the watch is well crafted machine just need proper care and I will stake my rep on it if they show me how this is done without doing proper service, parts replacement, Oiling, Regulating, timing analysis with a rundown sheet. Most guys can’t even tell me what that is because it is just being taught I will covert and eat my shorts if they aren’t cutting some corner for these prices LOL Check out this site and navigate to the spare parts issue as well as read info other places http://www.manuelyazijian.com Also look at www.AWCI.com these may explain better what is happening Michael The watchmaker |
11 January 2010, 03:20 PM | #48 |
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Hi Michael,
You might of missed my question about big company parts account: Referring to you comment about big watch account: Does your parts account with Rolex include parts like bezels, bracelets, crystals? Do you ever user aftermarket parts for old subs or that type of watch? Thanks |
12 January 2010, 08:00 AM | #49 |
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Cost of watch service is all relative. A good watchmaker operates in a small town in US can charge a lot less and still provides quality work. Watch service is primarily labor cost. If a watchmaker is willing to make less on a routine service, say $150, compared to $600, it does not mean he is cutting corners. About 5 years ago, I was traveling to Bangkok for vacation and also had my DJ serviced at the Rolex Thailand. It was a routine service with a replacement of crystal and crown. The cost was less than $100. The same service at NYC Rolex would have been easily $600. Why the big difference in price? In Thailand, the labor cost is a heck a lot cheaper than NYC. Did they cut corners? No.
A good watchmaker operates in a small town in US can operate on the same principle. He is most likely a one-man show with a helper in the front. His overheads are low and this is the important part, he is willing to make less! The same arguement holds true if you service your Mercedes at an AD or an independent shop. The inde is willing to make less and his overheads are low. He does not have to cut corners to make a good living for himself. It is a myth that only AD can provide good service on a Mercedes or Rolex. It is also a myth that lower price shops will cut corners. There are many independent shops that can provide good service at a lower price whether it's a Rolex or Mercedes. I am not willing to spend over 1K for a simple brake job so I take my car to a reputable independent shop at a much lower price. The same hold true for my routine watch service. |
12 January 2010, 12:57 PM | #50 | |
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Hey my apologies I did miss this question.... I believe with our account we can provide crystals, bezel and some bands parts. Vintage is a whole different situation in that if we don’t have it in stock we network to find original parts. We provide the best possible solutions for our customers and most aftermarket parts are inferior Michael The watchmaker |
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12 January 2010, 01:18 PM | #51 | |
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Why is Rolex so difficult with supplying new complete bracelets? |
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12 January 2010, 01:24 PM | #52 | |
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As a business can only succeed with a good plan if shop tools are $50,000 and training another $25,000 how much would I have to charge to be profitable? Rolex does not want to hear that you can repair more than two watches a day…anymore and this to them is cutting corners so if one a day is $150 how much is profit and why own a business unless you figure a way to maximize profit by not cleaning something that wont poise a problem for year anyway the customer will never know and perceives that person as a master and cheap. To me I would just work as something else and make more money but if I know how to do this job and make it profitable by not completely cleaning they are in and will get as much work as you can fill them with not because of quality the customer may not ever know until it go back to factory or service center. I may be much deeper then I can impress upon you but believe me some where the price reflects a cheap repair and that’s what you’re getting. All field are not comparable watchmakers are just now being held accountable you will this change in years to come. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten Michael The watchmaker |
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12 January 2010, 02:33 PM | #53 |
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Michael,
You know what would really help us understand is if you could post here or your site what warn parts look like and what could of been done to prevent the warn damaged parts. Pictures of what happens when a watch receives a bad service. thanks |
12 January 2010, 02:36 PM | #54 | |
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We can still get parts from Rolex for these models but sometimes have to network certain parts from our sources. We can surly service your needs as well as find proper band or original replacement. Prices will be different and can change any time. Wish I had better answer for you about Rolex’s polices but it can be very time consuming to locate parts and fix worn watches that why we do this specialty type of work, bringing them back to an accurate state while keeping the original parts on your watch that make it more collectable, valuable and complete. No heavy polishing on case . This can take away the form and takes a very skilled professional. Hope this helps Michael The watchmaker |
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12 January 2010, 02:45 PM | #55 | |
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Quick note about worn part is have watch serviced properly it that simple some watchmaker don’t even use fresh oils or even only use one oil in whole watch.... surprised me to...... Eductaion Chairmen for Fl state Watch & Clockmaker Asso Michael The watchmaker |
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13 January 2010, 07:53 AM | #56 | |
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__________________
2016 Explorer 214270 Mk2 - 1996 Submariner 14060* - 1972 Datejust 1601 1972 Oyster Perpetual 1002 - 1978 Oysterquartz 17000 Omega Seamaster 2265.80 - Omega Seamaster 300 166.0324 *RIP PAL 1942-2015 |
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13 January 2010, 10:57 AM | #57 |
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Michael,
Is there any parts in a Rolex 1530 movement that the Rolex parts account or Rolex no longer provides? Can you tell when servicing if there is any aftermarket parts used from a previous service? Thanks a bunch. |
14 January 2010, 05:26 AM | #58 | |
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Most of the time we can see if inferior parts are in the watch, but we are not perfect and if parts is working and well made with no burrs it is possible not to see them, we are able to get most parts for 1530 but have not run into unavailability yet who knows when they run out we just network to find original parts this is mostly on the older 1030 movements like in no crown guard subs and such. Michael The watchmaker |
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14 January 2010, 05:47 AM | #59 | |
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Michael the watchmaker |
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14 January 2010, 05:55 AM | #60 |
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Well said. I have seen a few watchmakers that provide price just for the cleaning and say parts extra. That can also help understand the cost. A good point on the aftermarket parts on the inside of the watch. I read so much about aftermarket or fake parts seen from the outside of the watch, but hardly anyone talking about the aftermarket parts in the movement. I would think that would affect the value of a vintage watch??
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