Buyer Beware Tesla

[rolehex]

Originally Posted by vipereaper30

Join us shorts on TSLA!

Well I hope you lose your shorts...my money's the other direction.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Brenngun

My point exactly. This plan didn't exist a couple of years ago. Thank You Tesla.

Tesla may be the latest, but definitely not the first. EV R&D ebbs and flows with fuel prices. The difference lately is that the success of hybrids has established both a comfort level and a demand for full EVs. And advances in light weight chassis manufacturing have made extended range a reality. None of this has anything to do with Tesla. It was an inevitable evolution in the industry.

No one yet has been able to be profitable with all electrics. Tesla included. Billions in government subsidies, consumer tax breaks, and investor cash have not made Tesla a sustainable venture. Nobody is following Tesla into the abyss. If not for the strength of Elon's persona, Tesla would be long dead.

The Chevy Bolt has a 238 mile range, a tad better than a Model 3, and can actually be had for $36K. When the other makers come online, Tesla will take its place next to the Delorean in the barn.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Tesla may be the latest, but definitely not the first. EV R&D ebbs and flows with fuel prices. The difference lately is that the success of hybrids has established both a comfort level and a demand for full EVs. And advances in light weight chassis manufacturing have made extended range a reality. None of this has anything to do with Tesla. It was an inevitable evolution in the industry.

No one yet has been able to be profitable with all electrics. Tesla included. Billions in government subsidies, consumer tax breaks, and investor cash have not made Tesla a sustainable venture. Nobody is following Tesla into the abyss. If not for the strength of Elon's persona, Tesla would be long dead.

The Chevy Bolt has a 238 mile range, a tad better than a Model 3, and can actually be had for $36K. When the other makers come online, Tesla will take its place next to the Delorean in the barn.

One of the biggest difrences may just be at the wi still be some Deloreans around to look at. From the video it appears that these Tesla’s will all be junk.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by mrricks

The electricity to power electric cars most likely comes from a coal fired plant.

After Fukushima, my country made a fast turn away from nuclear power.
It‘s true that we are still firing coal and oil to generate energy, but we increase solar and wind power year after year.

One issue with wind energy is, that during the night we already produce more than we actually need, so charging EVs during the night may be a good way to fill the gap.

From that example the ‚electric power must be generated somehow‘ is correct but a bit short. In the future, it‘ll be more and more important how to ‚store‘ energy that you don‘t really need at that moment and EVs can be good for that.

[Doc Savage]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I will buy one when they make extension cords long enough to last the whole trip.

I dunno. I don't even like winding up the garden hose.

Originally Posted by Nikrnic

Rear bumpers falling off in the rain too.

This sounds like a Country song title.

[J!m]

I’ll stick with gasoline and diesel until I can have my own nuclear reactor in the car.

Steam power! It’s the future!

[larsr]

The Mercedes and BMWs and Porsches of the world are coming hard into electric and will eat Teslas lunch.

The only real value in Tesla is its charging network. Whether an another established auto manufacturer would buy them for that is an open question, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Tesla may be the latest, but definitely not the first. EV R&D ebbs and flows with fuel prices. The difference lately is that the success of hybrids has established both a comfort level and a demand for full EVs. And advances in light weight chassis manufacturing have made extended range a reality. None of this has anything to do with Tesla. It was an inevitable evolution in the industry.

No one yet has been able to be profitable with all electrics. Tesla included. Billions in government subsidies, consumer tax breaks, and investor cash have not made Tesla a sustainable venture. Nobody is following Tesla into the abyss. If not for the strength of Elon's persona, Tesla would be long dead.

The Chevy Bolt has a 238 mile range, a tad better than a Model 3, and can actually be had for $36K. When the other makers come online, Tesla will take its place next to the Delorean in the barn.

Abdullah, I can't disagree with anything you said here however until Tesla came along (profitable or not) the core auto industry has had a poor history of truly pursuing this technology (ala the GM EV1 of the late 90's). Nice finish to that piece of virtuous business decision. If anything they've acted more like big oil in the 70's spending million buying up competitive technology just to bury it. If nothing else Tesla presence has forced the big players to get serious about EV.

[J!m]

Originally Posted by larsr

The Mercedes and BMWs and Porsches of the world are coming hard into electric and will eat Teslas lunch.

The only real value in Tesla is its charging network. Whether an another established auto manufacturer would buy them for that is an open question, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Aaaaahhhhh. This explains why Musk wants to buy back all his stock. He knows the investors will want to sell it off as soon as someone flashes enough green. If it’s private (like our friends Rolex) he can hold out as long as he wants.

I was wondering why he would but I have no knowledge or interest of his IP.

[CalSRQ1]

Debt service will kill Tesla/SolarCity....even if meeting production numbers 10B debt with rising interest rates is a killer.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by J!m

Aaaaahhhhh. This explains why Musk wants to buy back all his stock. He knows the investors will want to sell it off as soon as someone flashes enough green. If it’s private (like our friends Rolex) he can hold out as long as he wants.

I was wondering why he would but I have no knowledge or interest of his IP.

If Elon was worried about people selling he'd pay dividends. The only way to make money off Tesla stock is to sell it.

I don't think he wants to go private. I think he wanted to thump the short sellers with a shady play. He succeeded in thumping his reputation and making the board nervous. I don't know what else he accomplished.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Brenngun

Abdullah, I can't disagree with anything you said here however until Tesla came along (profitable or not) the core auto industry has had a poor history of truly pursuing this technology (ala the GM EV1 of the late 90's). Nice finish to that piece of virtuous business decision. If anything they've acted more like big oil in the 70's spending million buying up competitive technology just to bury it. If nothing else Tesla presence has forced the big players to get serious about EV.

I think Tesla's timing was coincidental to the trends in the market. Elon hypes himself as the leader in EV, but Tesla rode the improvements in technology that made EV more practical. The industry developed the technology, Tesla doesn't own any of it.

Once the technology became family car affordable, everybody jumped into the market. Tesla still isn't selling an affordable family car, fan boys are jumping ship, and Elon's erratic personal behavior is making people nervous. The end is near.

Car companies routinely buy other companies to plunder their technology. Ford plundered Jaguar, then dumped it. It's the way they do business, not a conspiracy to suppress EV technology.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by J!m

I’ll stick with gasoline and diesel until I can have my own nuclear reactor in the car.

Steam power! It’s the future!

Jay Leno has a few of the very early steam powered cars. Best to have a fire extinguisher handy.

[bonatto]

Late Mover Advantage.

[J!m]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Jay Leno has a few of the very early steam powered cars. Best to have a fire extinguisher handy.

Yeah but I'm not burning coal (or wood). Because it's evil!

Nuke power to boil the water for a steam turbine!

[goin camping]

Isn't Tesla just a bundle of. What ifs?

Their cars are simple and almost anyone can work on one. After looking under the skin of one it is kinda 60's beetle in mechanical system complexity. Struck me as an easy vehicle for the average car guy to remove and replace parts and systems.

what if Tesla lowered the cost of cars and made parts available? I doubt they could keep up with demand.

And Mr. Musk is truly the joker in the deck.

What if Volvo, BMW MB gets into the game? With their manufacturing ability and dealer and parts network would probably blow Tesla out the back door.

It will be interesting how this plays out.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I think Tesla's timing was coincidental to the trends in the market. Elon hypes himself as the leader in EV, but Tesla rode the improvements in technology that made EV more practical. The industry developed the technology, Tesla doesn't own any of it.

Once the technology became family car affordable, everybody jumped into the market. Tesla still isn't selling an affordable family car, fan boys are jumping ship, and Elon's erratic personal behavior is making people nervous. The end is near.

Car companies routinely buy other companies to plunder their technology. Ford plundered Jaguar, then dumped it. It's the way they do business, not a conspiracy to suppress EV technology.

Hang on Abdullah give me a chance to put my rose colored glasses on …. ok now I understand. Never been collusion between big oil and big auto. ZEV, CARB & the AAM in the 90's was just a dream. I think the GM EV1, Toyota Rav4-EV and Honda EV Plus all proved that the technology in the 90's was at a level of "family car affordable" yet it didn't happen. Now almost 30 years later magically it's do-able.

Jeez these glasses are giving me a headache. Ahhh …... that's better. Not a conspiracy theory. Just reading what's in plain site.

[1675-David]

https://www.e-tron.audi/en

Audi E-Tron anybody?

[Duey]

Originally Posted by rolehex

Well I hope you lose your shorts...my money's the other direction.

I hope you don't have to much money in the other direction

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Brenngun

Hang on Abdullah give me a chance to put my rose colored glasses on …. ok now I understand. Never been collusion between big oil and big auto. ZEV, CARB & the AAM in the 90's was just a dream. I think the GM EV1, Toyota Rav4-EV and Honda EV Plus all proved that the technology in the 90's was at a level of "family car affordable" yet it didn't happen. Now almost 30 years later magically it's do-able.

Jeez these glasses are giving me a headache. Ahhh …... that's better. Not a conspiracy theory. Just reading what's in plain site.

Propaganda. The hybrids make money, but the full electrics have been losing money. The EV market is just now developed enough buyers to make them profitable.

Tesla never made any money, which begs the question, why would anybody be attracted to a losing proposition? Your premise that Tesla led the industry to electric is based entirely on Elon Musk hype.

[michaelodonnell123]

"Buyer Beware Tesla"...this is ridiculous and so is that dopey video. Every single car manufacturer has somebody whining about their car problems. All cars have issues and part supply problems. Ford is the one of the oldest car companies in history and they still can't figure out how to make a transmission and they don't have replacement ones on hand either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ND6qp1UUr8

Should we now say " Buyer Beware Ford" ?

[enjoythemusic]

With Ford there are PLENTY of dealers and indie service centers. Spare parts are generally very much available, as are 'pulls' from wrecks. Tesla, not so much.

Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and others will be in the electric car game big time shortly.

[goin camping]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Tesla may be the latest, but definitely not the first. EV R&D ebbs and flows with fuel prices. The difference lately is that the success of hybrids has established both a comfort level and a demand for full EVs. And advances in light weight chassis manufacturing have made extended range a reality. None of this has anything to do with Tesla. It was an inevitable evolution in the industry.

No one yet has been able to be profitable with all electrics. Tesla included. Billions in government subsidies, consumer tax breaks, and investor cash have not made Tesla a sustainable venture. Nobody is following Tesla into the abyss. If not for the strength of Elon's persona, Tesla would be long dead.

The Chevy Bolt has a 238 mile range, a tad better than a Model 3, and can actually be had for $36K. When the other makers come online, Tesla will take its place next to the Delorean in the barn.

That is true in the 2000's but back in the early 1900's. Half the cars on the road in America were electric and they made money.

Until the hand crank was replaced with the electric starter. Then the ease of starting. The speed of refueling and the ability to go farther gave gas cars the edge until now.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Propaganda. The hybrids make money, but the full electrics have been losing money. The EV market is just now developed enough buyers to make them profitable.

Tesla never made any money, which begs the question, why would anybody be attracted to a losing proposition? Your premise that Tesla led the industry to electric is based entirely on Elon Musk hype.

Abdullah. I fear you may not have carefully read my comments on this subject. If you care to be correct please go back a read them again.

I never once said Tesla led the industry to electric. In fact EV's date back to the late 1800's so it would be impossible for them to have done so.

I don't agree that Tesla's timing was coincidental to market trends. That would imply the market was rapidly growing in 2005. Tesla's designs and sales growth has been large enough to turn heads in the automotive world and I believe forced many competitors to take the EV market seriously again. Hence the very recent announcements from a multitude of major automotive companies. That's what history should appreciate. The same could be said about the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance and their Leaf.


Lastly as a point of clarification. None of what I've said had to do with making money or Elon Musk. I haven't stated an opinion on him or any associated hype.

[enjoythemusic]

Shorting is looking good. Thx Elon ;)

[V25V]

Sat in yet another Tesla over the weekend and couldn't help but shake my head. They are just plain terrible.

Daimler already has one battery factory and building more, not only for their own vehicles but to sell to other manufacturers. Once the big boys get in on this game, Tesla is finished.

[AzPaul]

Tough day again today.
380 a month ago, 260 as I type this.
Pardon the pun, but the wheels seem to have come off.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

Tough day again today.
380 a month ago, 260 as I type this.
Pardon the pun, but the wheels seem to have come off.

And their CAO resigned after a month on the job...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/tesl...t-a-month.html

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by V25V

Sat in yet another Tesla over the weekend and couldn't help but shake my head. They are just plain terrible.

Daimler already has one battery factory and building more, not only for their own vehicles but to sell to other manufacturers. Once the big boys get in on this game, Tesla is finished.

Totally agree

[Keadog]

What is a Chief People Officer? She's leaving as well, but I have no ida how or if that hurts more or less than if she stayed.