Ive never understood how Sears got into its present condition...

[037]

Originally Posted by dddrees

There is just so much that is no longer being manufactured in the US anymore. In fact I just recently purchased a few reproductions of banned items originally manufactured in the mid to late 1800's in the US. The (Banned) That Won The West. They are under the original brand name by the way but made in Japan and not the US. By all accounts they are actually being made better by the way.

Japan I'm good with. Same goes for Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Israel, England and a few other countries that still have quality control. Quality and reliability win over everything else with me. I do have quite a few items made in China that are top quality but they aren't tools. I've yet to see a tool made there that has impressed me but welcome the opportunity. I've especially yet to see a (banned item) part made there that's impressed me.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

People say they want domestically made products, yet the expansion and success of Walmart shows otherwise. People dont put their money where their mouth is and talk doesn't cost a thing.

That comes down to prices in my opinion. If domestic and offshore products cost the same, I suspect the majority would purchase domestically made products without hesitation. Undercut pricing is what's created that issue. It's impossible to compete with a factory worker who makes $1 per day.

Some of us will gladly spend $50 on a hammer knowing we'll pass it down to our kids where others will spend $5 on a hammer thinking they'll use it once to fix a broken faucet then $80 on the plumber who shows up an hour later. I'm sure many cheap tools are purchased by those who have no business using them. There's certainly a thriving market for cheap tools.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by 037

Japan I'm good with. Same goes for Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Israel, England and a few other countries that still have quality control. Quality and reliability win over everything else. I do have quite a few items made in China that are top quality but they aren't tools. I've yet to see a tool made there that has impressed me but welcome the opportunity.


That comes down to prices in my opinion. If domestic and offshore products cost the same, I suspect the majority would purchase domestically made products without hesitation. Undercut pricing is what's created that issue. It's impossible to compete with a factory worker who makes $1 per day.

Some of us will gladly spend $50 on a hammer knowing we'll pass it down to our kids where others will spend $5 on a hammer thinking they'll use it once to fix a broken faucet then $80 on the plumber who shows up an hour later. I'm sure many cheap tools are purchased by those who have no business using them.

The bottom line is that the vast majority has spoken. Cheaper is winning the day.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 037

That comes down to prices in my opinion. If domestic and offshore products cost the same, I suspect the majority would purchase domestically made products without hesitation. Undercut pricing is what's created that issue. It's impossible to compete with a factory worker who makes $1 per day.

Some of us will gladly spend $50 on a hammer knowing we'll pass it down to our kids where others will spend $5 on a hammer thinking they'll use it once to fix a broken faucet then $80 on the plumber who shows up an hour later. I'm sure many cheap tools are purchased by those who have no business using them. There's certainly a thriving market for cheap tools.

of course. American lifestyles cost more. So you have to pay more to hire an american worker generally speaking. You can be middle class somewhere else on a fraction of the salary. So its not necessarily even about exploiting cheap foreign labor in many cases. Yes, sometimes it is though

[77T]

I’m not picking on any US member who expresses a desire for domestically manufactured products - but the irony is the watch on their wrist very likely isn’t US-made.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Brew

I had to google your response. Those are nice looking tools. But just like Rolex's Professional line, I'm not sure I'd notice any difference, given how I'd use them.

They are an ergonomically satisfying design for the discerning craftsman, and they last forever. I have 35 year old Estwing hammers that I bought new. Buy once, cry once.

[037]

Originally Posted by dddrees

The bottom line is that the vast majority has spoken. Cheaper is winning the day.

Sadly, it is.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

of course. American lifestyles cost more. So you have to pay more to hire an american worker generally speaking. You can be middle class somewhere else on a fraction of the salary. So its not necessarily even about exploiting cheap foreign labor in many cases. Yes, sometimes it is though

Are American workers paid too much or are foreign workers not paid enough? Are trade practices fair or biased in the wrong direction? Perspectives vary on this greatly.

Originally Posted by 77T

I’m not picking on any US member who expresses a desire for domestically manufactured products - but the irony is the watch on their wrist very likely isn’t US-made.

True. But, if you sent a US-made Hamilton for repair and received a new one made in another country as a replacement, you'd probably be disappointed. That's essentially the situation with Craftsman tools now, since we're on that subject.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 77T

I’m not picking on any US member who expresses a desire for domestically manufactured products - but the irony is the watch on their wrist very likely isn’t US-made.


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italian leather, german engineering, japanese tech, swiss watches. the US does struggle for a signature thing. In the past i would say manufacturing like cars. However I dont necessarily think of them as quality in the same way i think of a german car. So there is a lack of an identity as far as making stuff. Innovation, ideas, etc the US excels but making physical products not so much

Plus manufacturing gets all the press as far as moving overseas, but those workers are going to be replaced with fully automated manufacturing anyway so its just delaying the inevitable.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 037

Sadly, it is.


True. But, if you sent a US-made Hamilton for repair and received a new one made in another country as a replacement, you'd probably be disappointed. That's essentially the situation with Craftsman tools now, since we're on that subject.

If you got a new one.

I had a rachet wrench lock up. They gave me a bag of parts and sent me on my way. I had to google instructions to replace the guts on the wrench myself.

[037]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I had a rachet wrench lock up. They gave me a bag of parts and sent me on my way. I had to google instructions to replace the guts on the wrench myself.

Same here. 1¢ for the bag of parts, then had to remove the circlip and swap internals myself. I was fine with that since the wrench body was still in great shape.

[brandrea]

It’s because of the internet ...

I can look at all bras without the catalogue

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by brandrea

It’s because of the internet ...

I can look at all bras without the catalogue

flash back to my 13 year old self. Sears catalogue was a big deal or maybe it was JCPenney. And you didn't have to hide it.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

flash back to my 13 year old self. Sears catalogue was a big deal or maybe it was JCPenney. And you didn't have to hide it.

Yep ... I spent a lot of quality time with that catalogue

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[swils8610]

I read an article several months ago about Sears. The article said when Sears came up with the slogan “Come see the softer side of Sears” was the beginning of the end. The world has changed. They didn’t adapt. I also try and support Brick and Mortar. Twice I was at Lowe’s recently. Needed a furnace filter. After half an hour of trying to find help, being told they didn’t have one even though the website and their own computer said they a bunch...I pulled up Amazon and had it ordered. I thanked the guy for trying and 2 days later had the filter. It’s not worth the hassle anymore with Amazon.


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[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by swils8610

I read an article several months ago about Sears. The article said when Sears came up with the slogan “Come see the softer side of Sears” was the beginning of the end. The world has changed. They didn’t adapt. I also try and support Brick and Mortar. Twice I was at Lowe’s recently. Needed a furnace filter. After half an hour of trying to find help, being told they didn’t have one even though the website and their own computer said they a bunch...I pulled up Amazon and had it ordered. I thanked the guy for trying and 2 days later had the filter. It’s not worth the hassle anymore with Amazon.


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I know what you mean, and agree with what you wrote/experienced as the same thing happens to me quite frequently. Go to a Brick & Mortar, but for one, or multiple reasons end up buying from Amazon.

[dddrees]

Although I use Amazon I purchase most of my items from other sites even when sometimes referring to the reviews on Amazon.

[Romeojk]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Sears was HUGE!!! They not only had a Christmas Catalogue they had Catalogues for every season and almost every category. They were so HUGE there downfall even took decades before they went poof. It's my understanding their downfall started about the time they built that huge Sears Tower in Chicago they probably should have never built.


Sears was HUGE for decades in fact for longer than half a century. It used to be they were the only place I could go and their salespeople actually knew what they were talking about. Because they lasted so long I can hardly call Sears a failure. Very few businesses reach the heights and last as long as Sears did. Walmart and Amazon are innovators no doubt. But neither have proven they could come close yet to how long Sears was able to be KING.

Great perspective thanks!!

They employed lots of people with good paying jobs (compared to today’s Walmart, Kohl’s jobs).

Two of my wives uncles raised good families working there, one of them did very well.


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[timedate]

do you remember woolworths?

it was a high street icon in the uk for probably 75 years,

it just had it's day, i dont think it could have been saved.

The rents, rates, taxes and regulations these companies have to endure, cannot be comprehended by people with a simplistic outlook, often these costs take them down.

[GradyPhilpott]

I used to buy a lot of clothes and stuff from Lands' End.

Then, at some point, Sears acquired Lands' End and the quality of the products plummeted.

I still have packed away somewhere several sweatshirts that would fit an orangutan perfectly.

That was the last purchase I ever made from them.

Thanks, Sears.

[Romeojk]

Originally Posted by Brew

I had to google your response. Those are nice looking tools. But just like Rolex's Professional line, I'm not sure I'd notice any difference, given how I'd use them.

Well then, you should look up Stiletto Titanium hammers or better yet Martinez hammers, I myself and a DIYer and wouldn’t benefit from either, but I guess if it’s your thing I hear they are pretty good.


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[Romeojk]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

flash back to my 13 year old self. Sears catalogue was a big deal or maybe it was JCPenney. And you didn't have to hide it.

If my memory serves me the JC Penny catalogue won out! haha


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

just an observation and ill leave it at that.

People say they want domestically made products, yet the expansion and success of Walmart shows otherwise. People dont put their money where their mouth is and talk doesn't cost a thing.

I dont care either way, i buy what i prefer. I just dont like the hypocrisy.

Always laugh at those Harley Davidson cult guys and their WE BUY AMERICAN and then don't mind telling you they do all their shopping at Walmart.

I don't bother telling them their bikes are merely ASSEMBLED in AMERICA.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I used to buy a lot of clothes and stuff from Lands' End.

Then, at some point, Sears acquired Lands' End and the quality of the products plummeted.

I still have packed away somewhere several sweatshirts that would fit an orangutan perfectly.

That was the last purchase I ever made from them.

Thanks, Sears.

That's the thing. You can't keep track of who owns who anymore.

Used to buy a lot of Black and Decker stuff and a couple of years ago bought a dust buster which lasted all of a few months. Would not hold a charge. Tried to get it replaced but couldn't get any response.

Went online and it was a common problem and you're screwed.

So no more Black and Decker for me.

[Phrank]

Originally Posted by swils8610

I read an article several months ago about Sears. The article said when Sears came up with the slogan “Come see the softer side of Sears” was the beginning of the end. The world has changed. They didn’t adapt. I also try and support Brick and Mortar. Twice I was at Lowe’s recently. Needed a furnace filter. After half an hour of trying to find help, being told they didn’t have one even though the website and their own computer said they a bunch...I pulled up Amazon and had it ordered. I thanked the guy for trying and 2 days later had the filter. It’s not worth the hassle anymore with Amazon.


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Hilarious you mention this.

Literally on my first day at Sears Canada, was chatting with the CIO on the escalator (same ones from the 1970's), Peter Myers is going down while we're going up....I look over at the CIO and say, "Holy Sh$t!! He really does work here....!!"

Peter Myers is Mike Myers brother, Mike allegedly did the "Softer Side of Sears", commercial for free, only aired in Canada I believe, to help his brother and the company out...how did Sears thank him....laid him off with no severance, and a reduced pension after 36 years.

Of course Sears Canada did it's best to pull the commercial to hide their shame, but you can see part of it here in a Canadian business report where they are reporting that Peter was denied his severance after 36 years.

The set is exactly the reception area at Sears Canada (they filmed the entire thing there), spent two years there, some excellent and dedicated people that didn't deserve to be treated the shameful way they were.

[MrTwi]

Originally Posted by gmh1013

When i was a kid every kid ...
Fast forward 50 years.....its all gone.....replaced by Amazon for mail order..

Originally Posted by Brenngun

It's a story as old as the hills. Same thing killed Kodak and countless other well known companies in the past.

^^^ This. Considering that Sears KNEW how to do a mail order business long before the Internet existing, its hard to understand the failure of the business.

Then again, not only did Kodak own the Film industry, they INVENTED the camera sensor. What's with that?

[Phrank]

Originally Posted by MrTwi

^^^ This. Considering that Sears KNEW how to do a mail order business long before the Internet existing, its hard to understand the failure of the business.

Then again, not only did Kodak own the Film industry, they INVENTED the camera sensor. What's with that?

Yes, in 1996, Sears was in a position and was considering BUYING Amazon, but thought they'd go bankrupt, then Amazon offered to buy Sears, and Sears said no....just a long line of self-inflicted wounds and blindness.

Couple of photos from when I was there, have tons, place was full of iconic posters and campaigns from back as far as 1800's...a museum almost.

Reception area and one and some old posters of catalogues.

[swils8610]

I remember going to Sears as a kid with my parents to buy paint. Always bought paint at Sears. The color was always Tawny White semi-gloss. They used that color for years. At some point they changed the name to Devonshire Cream...I remember the paint guy trying to convince my dad it was the same color. Lol. My dad who is 79 still has wool hunting clothes that say Sears Best on the inside label. They’ve got to be from the 1950’s or 60’s....and he still wears them!!


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[CRM114]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

italian leather, german engineering, japanese tech, swiss watches. the US does struggle for a signature thing. In the past i would say manufacturing like cars. However I dont necessarily think of them as quality in the same way i think of a german car. So there is a lack of an identity as far as making stuff. Innovation, ideas, etc the US excels but making physical products not so much

Plus manufacturing gets all the press as far as moving overseas, but those workers are going to be replaced with fully automated manufacturing anyway so its just delaying the inevitable.

U.S. leads the world/excels in aerospace innovation, engineering, and manufacturing. From airframes/parts large to small, engines (jet, tprop, recip), avionic systems, players like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Gulfstream, Cessna, Piper, Beech, GE/United Technologies/Pratt & Whitney/Rockwell Collins, Honeywell, Scaled Composites, Rockeydyne, etc, etc, etc.

When Richard Branson wants to build a spaceship he comes to the U.S. to do it, not Germany, Japan, the UK, or Switzerland.

[toxicavenger]

I use to spank the monkey to the sears catalog

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by gmh1013

When i was a kid every kid in the USA looked forward to the Sears Christmas Catalog which had 400 plus pages... which was the Amazon of it day in the 50's and 60's plus had the stores in every large and midsize town in the US....plus the very popular Kenmore line which we had in our house as a kid....plus the tools.
Fast forward 50 years.....its all gone.....replaced by Amazon for mail order...Sears remained strong up into the 80's with discover card etc....then feel from grace quickly. How somebody was not able to turn it around 25 years ago is beyond me. The rise of Wal-Mart didn't help but they Ive always been low end stuff. I know its not one thing but a chain of events that cause a company to go under but it seems somebody could have pulled it out.
I was playing my old Silvertone guitar with case amp i got as present in 1969...it play pretty good for a 50 year old cheap Sears guitar....feeling nostalgic.

In ability to change. Isnt it obvious? Every large company fails over time other than a bank. Apple and amazon will and people will be shocked. Not me. I know it is all just sandcastle power.

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by Etschell

In ability to change. Isnt it obvious? Every large company fails over time other than a bank. Apple and amazon will and people will be shocked. Not me. I know it is all just sandcastle power.

Very true.