New serial numbers

[gt3pilot]

Rolex has been talking about this random serial number idea for a long time. They have always told their AD's that the numbers didn't really mean anything in regards to production etc. etc. Up until a few years ago in the US. the papers used to be stamped with a series of red letters that would indicate when the watch was shipped from RUSA to the AD. That code was easy ROLEX WATCH, R=1 O=2 L=3 and so forth. Example RO RW CC Shipped Dec. 16 '99.

Remember it wasn't Rolex or their AD's that compiled the serial number production list. It was a few folks that have been buying and selling Rolex watches(non AD's) for many many years and did a LOT of research to come up with the list as we know it now. We've all benefited from their hard work and have used the list to help with our watches.

Rolex doesn't really care about the resale market nor would they care if you/we could tell how old a watch is. They will know and that's really all that matters to them. To them all the watches in the AD's are all brand new until they are sold and the warranty card is filled in and dated by the AD, whether it's a A serial number or a V serial number. Good or bad that's the reality in my opinion

[Daytonaboy1977]

Originally Posted by Rolesor

Seems odd that a watch company so notoriously 'stolen and faked' - would turn around and make it even harder to figure out the origin of the watch..

I would say it is a very clever step by the brand and will cut down on second hand purchases outside authorised dealers - this system will almost ensure that a private individual would go to the authorised dealer when parting with £3000 + on a Rolex watch and generally push up new sales instead of the second hand market. Let's face it at this present time the secnd hand and pre owned markets are alot busier than new? This means after the increases to cut out the grey market second hand sales of prestige sports models they are now closing the mental loop hole for buying second hand (grey) or authorised dealer supplied watches. The sense in this tactic would mean that all authorised AD's now would push the idea with Jo public that if you buy from a grey market dealer you will be buying a watch that could be 3 maybe 4 years old. This ultimately pushes up sales and profit and keeps the AD's busy!

Just my 2 cents but it makes completete sense

[Big_S]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

"Someone could buy a Rolex with a post dated warranty card (say 18 months old), take it into Rolex, and Rolex might say, "Well that watch was sold 5 years ago."

I am confused; could you clarify if you mean that Rolex may/will claim that they sold it to an AD, "5 years ago," or that they may/will have info identifying that it was sold by an AD to a customer, "5 years ago," and claim this?

TIA

[jdc]

Rolex always want to control the market. It will put more importance on having all the paperwork stamped and dated by an AD and not being left blank. Rolex may be thinking of the grey market in this respect.

[Casey VP-26]

Whatever Confusion Rolex wanted from this new number and letter system. ITS WORKING

[snowbird]

Not sure why Rolex is doing this but I agree with those above who say this is going to impact the used market . . . going forward, on a used watch if it doesn't have papers, you'll have no idea how old it is, other than a broad range based on model number.

My guess is it will be a lot harder to sell any used Rolex with no papers.

[sea-dweller]

Interesting !!!

[dkpw]

Originally Posted by jdc

Rolex always want to control the market. It will put more importance on having all the paperwork stamped and dated by an AD and not being left blank. Rolex may be thinking of the grey market in this respect.

That's my thought too. The paperwork becomes more important as does "buying the seller" in the pre-owned market. You can always determine whether a watch is genuine, but in terms of last service etc. for vintage you're in the hands of the seller.

As always caveat emptor.

BTW - JJ Love the number plate - what else could it have been! I got a few looks in Starbucks when I saw that pic!

[mfer]

This sucks for trying to date a watch now, but I suspect Rolex is doing this so people don't go to an AD and obsess about getting a V vs. M watch.

[checkin]

pic from RLX
http://www.r-l-x.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=99202&sid=

[valentine]

for sake of "dating' a watch...i DO NOT like this new strategy.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by valentine

for sake of "dating' a watch...i DO NOT like this new strategy.

Agreed!! There's going to be a lot of confusion a few years down the line with the random letter selection.

JJ

[AstroBoy]

I don't like this one bit! Even with the purchase date on the certificate from the re-seller, you don't know that if the watch had been sit in the display 10yrs or one yr from that date on the paper? Crap!

[jdc]

The most important part is the movement, no-one knows how long a movement has been in storage before it is put in a case marked M or V or whatever. The obsession with having the newest make has become an epidemic recently. What's happened with the Rolex will last a lifetime?
This is designed to protect Rolex's new sales and to encourage buying from an AD so you get stamped paperwork. Rolex is a business its not interested in the second hand market or grey dealers. The move is to protect itself as a business.

[Jun Cajayon]

Definitely, now people will place more importance in securing the paperwork of the watches they would buy from ADs as this will be the only indication of how old the watch really is a few years ahead. But, IMHO, this will only be temporary for people like us. Even with pure randomization, I am sure we will find a way to link these numbers to dates. I won't be surprised if whole blogs will be dedicated to placing some form of order and analysis on these "random" numbers.

Cheers!

[Poom]

If Rolex is doing this to kill the uses market and hope to bring customers to go to AD and buy it, this might not be a good idea for Rolex eventually.

Actually the used market is supporting
Rolex a lot, as everyone knows if one buys Rolex and someday one in trouble financially, he can easily sell in the uses market and that's actually the value buying Rolex.
So it won't be wise to kill used market.

[Evan614]

Well at least for the first couple years we will know it will be in the 'new' range (2010-11). But doesn't the bracelet help date things, too??

[ayres]

Originally Posted by Poom

If Rolex is doing this to kill the uses market and hope to bring customers to go to AD and buy it, this might not be a good idea for Rolex eventually.

Actually the used market is supporting
Rolex a lot, as everyone knows if one buys Rolex and someday one in trouble financially, he can easily sell in the uses market and that's actually the value buying Rolex.
So it won't be wise to kill used market.

i'm not following you here... it's doubtful the used market is of any direct benefit to rolex - even if an AD stocks some pre-owned that were trade-ins.

as for this new serial system, it is obviously benefiting dealers who may have slow turnover in their inventory.

[ayres]

ahhhh, food for thought...

now that rolex is producing all the major components themselves (minus the tidbits), maybe this is the system they foresaw themselves moving towards.

if they are now truly 'masters of their own production and assembly', maybe this system is more insightful for their own record keeping, as well as the tracking the fate of each case.

am i simply reading too much into this? we talk about the new serial system's affect on sales, but no one has mentioned how it might be used internally for production matters.

thoughts???

[FlyingMoose]

We can start to learn some things already. In a system where each character is randomly chosen from 0-9A-Z, we'd expect there to be 2.6 letters for every number (since there are 2.6 times as many letters as numbers). However, this does not seem to be true, all of the examples I've seen have more numbers than letters.

If the serials are based on random numbers, there will be no way of figuring out order of manufacture no matter how much we study the numbers, since a given number may have been randomly chosen at any time.

The first step in the process of decoding numbers is to gather as many as possible and run some statistical analysis on them. Since people don't seem to post their whole serial numbers this may prove difficult.

[robrobin]

In my old life (computer geek - pre WIS) I used to program things like serial numbers for parts. Most numbers have some intelligence to them but if you're going to continue to produce the item (Rolex cases) then the serial cannot be completely random. At the least they must check the serials that have already been used, so not to reuse them. If they do that, then they need to keep a database of used serials. That may be as simple as it gets but I doubt it. Rolex produces close to a million watches each year. There's a need, for many different business reasons, to keep track of production, sales, defects, etc. by part/serial/year, etc. in any manufacturing environment. My guess is that the serial will be associated with the case model number in some fashion. From a marketing and inventory perspective I can see why Rolex is doing this...but believe me they certainly know the age and production date of all their inventory. All of their part packaging now come enclosed with a micro chip. They can enter a Rolex AD and know exactly what parts they have on hand, where they came from and how old they are without ever asking the AD. There's a scheme to their madness.

[BQueenan]

What is the serial number actually for?

Leaving aside the second hand market, does the serial number actually have a use? From what I have read Rolex does not keep a record of the owners of their watches, nor is there a record of stolen Rolex watches.

So the serial number is of no more benefit than the serial number of your TV or DVD player. We don't know what they are, nor do we care.

I can't really see how damaging the second hand market benefits Rolex. Those purchasing second hand watches are probably not going to buy a new Rolex.

[gelshocker]

Originally Posted by kokota

I think we're all overlooking the fact that we may still be able to identify production via the clasp code.

My thoughts exactly. Unless they randomized the 3 letter clasp code too, your watch was made within 1 year from the date of clasp (barring it wasn't a replacement strap).

[snowbird]

Good point on the bracelet code (though Rolex could randomize those too if they want to).

[nko51]

The "R" serial number was used in the late 1980's. Why would they use it again?

[eddiethefish]

Thanks David.

[buyrolexnow]

I have word, straight from the horses mouth, that the serial numbers we're all used to, do not indicate the production date of the watch. I know, I know...let me finish. When rolex stamps the serial number, it is done immediately after the case is produced. Therefore, the "m,v,z" does not mean that the watch was made in a specific year, but that the CASE was made that year. The case can be, and often is, stored for months or years without a bracelet, movement, or any other part attached to it. Years later that case may have a movement placed in it and AT THAT TIME it becomes a watch. This means that even though your watch says M, and its now 2010, it does not mean that the watch is old. Those serial number lists that everyone uses are giving you false information.

This means that the watch at your AD may or may not be 5 years old. It also means that wanting a specific series is not only unnecessary, its quite obsurd. This is not IMHO, but is a matter of fact.

[chrislkb]

Originally Posted by buyrolexnow

I have word, straight from the horses mouth, that the serial numbers we're all used to, do not indicate the production date of the watch. I know, I know...let me finish. When rolex stamps the serial number, it is done immediately after the case is produced. Therefore, the "m,v,z" does not mean that the watch was made in a specific year, but that the CASE was made that year. The case can be, and often is, stored for months or years without a bracelet, movement, or any other part attached to it. Years later that case may have a movement placed in it and AT THAT TIME it becomes a watch. This means that even though your watch says M, and its now 2010, it does not mean that the watch is old. Those serial number lists that everyone uses are giving you false information.

This means that the watch at your AD may or may not be 5 years old. It also means that wanting a specific series is not only unnecessary, its quite obsurd. This is not IMHO, but is a matter of fact.

But it still give us +/- rough margin to estimate the age of the watch. But with the new random number, everything goes berzerk in tracking the case no totally

[gt3pilot]

Originally Posted by buyrolexnow

I have word, straight from the horses mouth, that the serial numbers we're all used to, do not indicate the production date of the watch. I know, I know...let me finish. When rolex stamps the serial number, it is done immediately after the case is produced. Therefore, the "m,v,z" does not mean that the watch was made in a specific year, but that the CASE was made that year. The case can be, and often is, stored for months or years without a bracelet, movement, or any other part attached to it. Years later that case may have a movement placed in it and AT THAT TIME it becomes a watch. This means that even though your watch says M, and its now 2010, it does not mean that the watch is old. Those serial number lists that everyone uses are giving you false information.

This means that the watch at your AD may or may not be 5 years old. It also means that wanting a specific series is not only unnecessary, its quite obsurd. This is not IMHO, but is a matter of fact.

Derrick,

Since you work at a AD. Did this info come from your Rolex sales rep or a Rolex representative ? Just curious

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by buyrolexnow

This means that the watch at your AD may or may not be 5 years old. It also means that wanting a specific series is not only unnecessary, its quite obsurd. This is not IMHO, but is a matter of fact.

If Z serials started coming out in early 2006 and you have a D serial sitting there it means that D serial is AT LEAST 4 years old!

Do they ship D's after Z's or M's after V's? I doubt it. So it means that D serial is AT LEAST 4 years old and in 1 year will need a servicing. Hardly "quite absurd"...and coming from you...highly suspect!

First you complain about people wanting discounts and now an educated consumer gets under your skin...poor form