Rail dial - what do you think

[zederhoff]

I have come across this 1665 Rail Dail. Serial 6.xxx.xxx and I would like some input before I proceed.

I attach some pictures.

Here is my observations - which might be wrong :-)
I am a little insecure about the dial crown seems a little off but maybe just the plexi glass?

"T - swiss T <25" seems to start just a fraction nearer the second mark what i compare to pictures of other rail dail i could find.

Hands and dial seems to have different patina. Is this within expectations?

Polished - but still OK ?

Looking at the pictures, any other points / issues to consider?
Do you think this watch is collectible?

Thanks in advance,

Klaus

[Comex1665]

IMO, it looks fake .. The coronet on the crown is incorrect.. The clasp has too much holes it should has 7 holes for the first 93150 buckle and should be a bit thicker than that . The shape of the crown is also ridiculous it should be shaved from the inside. The pearl on the insert is too big and way off.

IMO it is a fake or a "Franken" which is a fake watch with some gen parts on it like gen dial and gen movement to fool buyers..

[zederhoff]

Comex 1665, thank you so much.
You just saved me from bidding on a crap watch!
And thanks for explaining the issues.

I would have been OK with the clasp being wrong - but the dial...
What a shame.

Here is the ebay listing. http://www.ebay.de/itm/141568564113?...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Should it be reported to Ebay as a fake listing?

[Fredrik]

The clasp is fine, the early 93150 clasps have holes all the way.

The crown on the dial however looks strange in some of the pictures, it _might_ be some distortion from a damaged plexi, it almost looks ok in one of the views from the side. Also, the 'E' in 'ROLEX' looks distorted in a couple of shots.

How about asking the seller?

[bzabodyn]

Plexi distortion is always tough with these "fake or not" type threads...

BZ

[zederhoff]

I would ask the seller, but no luck.
Btw it's only bank transfer payment. So no mercy if you end up with a fake watch.

I really like the watch - but the dial scares me.
The crown looks a bit off
"T SWISS T <25" - T is a bit closer to the second mark on the watch offered.

I attach a reference picture of an other watch - not the one for sale.
Do you agree with my observations?

I would love if someone here could verify the watch - but being new in vintage i am trying to avoid mistakes so maybe I am over carefull.

Best regards,

Klaus

[redfred]

I see what you mean about the T but that could be down to distortion, I think in these circumstances the old adage ' buy the seller ' applies.

[GGGMT]

Look for another watch and buy from a well known vintage seller like HQ Milton or Matthew Bain. Then you won't have to worry about throwing $10k+ down the toilet.

[zederhoff]

Yes, maybe an other watch is a safer way.

For the sake of the discussion and education of me and other users here in the forum, could an expert comment on the following observations and let me know if I am correct.

I also note that the "610 M" sign on the watch offered differs from all other Rail Dial's I have seen. The number "1"is just a vertical line - like a normal great white. The Rail Dials have sherif's.
Seems like a great white crown (longer coronet's) and "610 M" text on a rail dial.

Thanks in advance,

Klaus

[bieb1]

Hi Klaus, it looks like we are on a similar journey here. And you have a sharp eye, that is clear! Thanks also to the fellow posters for the educational experience, it helps me build my knowledge as well.
My experience sofar is that all the ones that I have considered - and seen close up in the real - turned out to have issues. Perhaps not outright fakes, but certainly not original. As you will have seen in my posts, I was trying to figure out whether "original" 1978 watches can have MK 3 or later dials and the answer is no. Nothing wrong with later/service dials, but it is annoying to be told by a dealer that it is totally original, when in fact it is not. And this is where semantics come into play, because yes, all the parts are original Rolex, but they did not leave the factory in that combination. As long as you are aware and the price reflects it, no problem. Given the price level of these type watches, and several fellow posters have already made the point, I would recommend you buy from a reputable dealer and eyeball the watch you want to buy before pulling the trigger. Trying to assess them via blurry internet pictures is a very risky game!

Good luck with the hunt!
Hans

[marcello pisani]

from such terrific pics ( even enlarged as I did ) it's impossible to say if the dial is " friend or foe ".
if fake it's very well done ...
but remember the old wise proverb : " when in doubt leave it ".

[zederhoff]

Thanks for the comments.
It's a very interesting hunt and learning process.

Hans, Happy hunting.

Marcello, sorry for the picture quality - i don't have access to better ones.
I did like you. Enlarged in Photoshop and played the exposure but no real improvement since the exposure are so bad to begin with. I have asked for better pictures but no answer... Which is sort of an answer :-|

[Dr DRW]

the ft and m also look "too italic" to me

[high5]

a vintage watch must be period correct for it to demand higher value. 100% genuine rolex is not good enough. at the very least, the case and dial must be period correct.

[zederhoff]

I think i found the supplier of the dial on the watch offered for sale.

Crown, rail text and T swiss T < 25 is clearly off.

When I am in doubt I have started to google suppliers of fake / aftermarket parts. If I find a match I know 100% sure it's a fake / franken watch offered for sale.

I attach a picture of the fake. It's priced at 350$.

Be carefull!

Klaus

PS. if posting a picture of a fake dial is not OK please let me know and I will remove. But I thought it would be a nice reference for future buyers.

[zederhoff]

of the FAKE dial.

[Fredrik]

Oh, good to know!