2nd time is not the charm

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Westland

OP, you can't take away a company's ability to maximize profit. What's next? We take away an individual's ability to maximize his income? Certainly you wouldn't like that very much... It truly is supply and demand, a simple and fair economic theory accepted by all reasonable-thinking people... And let's be honest, roughly speaking, if you're in the market for a $13k watch, then you're in the market for a $17k watch. At this point, it comes down to how badly you want it.

That's certainly an oversimplification of the agreements made in a retail chain. Often companies will also have rules that forbid retailers from selling under MSRP, too.

[Westland]

Ok then, the majority of commerce occurs in a supply/demand environment. I mean, yeah, if you want to talk about a video game, let's say, not being sold under MSRP, I get all that, and certainly exceptions exist. However, we're talking about THIS industry. And this industry operates like the majority.

Originally Posted by douglasf13

That's certainly an oversimplification of the agreements made in a retail chain. Often companies will also have rules that forbid retailers from selling under MSRP, too.

[fania123]

But paying over retail, I don't even want to say.

[Westland]

I'm surprised the premium is only $4-5k... That's a small price to pay if you really want it but are facing years of waiting for it to come down to MSRP, otherwise.

Here's another thing the OP should consider: You could wait, say, 2 or 3 years for it to come down to MSRP, but guess where the MSRP will be at that time? Lol... Answer: Not where it is now.

[kid4life]

All good points ! I personally am not willing to pay to play so I will be happy with my one Rolex for now - as a relative watch industry marketing hype noob, are there any similar scenarios being played out by other watch manufacturers ?

[Westland]

The BLNR still seems to sell around MSRP...

[BadgerHawk]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

Car dealerships are always selling sought after cars over sticker, why should watches be any different? It's simple economic theory.

Which cars routinely go for over MSRP? Porsche maybe?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Westland

OP, you can't take away a company's ability to maximize profit. What's next? We take away an individual's ability to maximize his income? Certainly you wouldn't like that very much... It truly is supply and demand, a simple and fair economic theory accepted by all reasonable-thinking people... And let's be honest, roughly speaking, if you're in the market for a $13k watch, then you're in the market for a $17k watch. At this point, it comes down to how badly you want it.

Rolex doesn't see any of this money. It's all in the particular AD's pocket. Why would they promote price gouging?

Originally Posted by Westland

I'm surprised the premium is only $4-5k... That's a small price to pay if you really want it but are facing years of waiting for it to come down to MSRP, otherwise.

Here's another thing the OP should consider: You could wait, say, 2 or 3 years for it to come down to MSRP, but guess where the MSRP will be at that time? Lol... Answer: Not where it is now.

The watch is selling for MSRP in the US and other locales now. Why pay a premium if it can be had at retail? Get on a wait list and buy it a MSRP.

And, there's no way to predict when Rolex will raise prices. Other than currency adjustments there hasn't been a rise since 2012.

[Westland]

Do you think I don't know that Rolex doesn't see any of the money? Who said anything about Rolex promoting price gouging?

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Rolex doesn't see any of this money. It's all in the particular AD's pocket. Why would they promote price gouging?




The watch is selling for MSRP in the US and other locales now. Why pay a premium if it can be had at retail? Get on a wait list and buy it a MSRP.

And, there's no way to predict when Rolex will raise prices. Other than currency adjustments there hasn't been a rise since 2012.

[speedmaster73]

Abdullah speaks the truth

[Westland]

The AD is a company, right Sir? That's to whom I'm referring.

People are waiting over a year on waitlists to pay MSRP. We already know this... And some people don't want to buy internationally...

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Rolex doesn't see any of this money. It's all in the particular AD's pocket. Why would they promote price gouging?




The watch is selling for MSRP in the US and other locales now. Why pay a premium if it can be had at retail? Get on a wait list and buy it a MSRP.

And, there's no way to predict when Rolex will raise prices. Other than currency adjustments there hasn't been a rise since 2012.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Westland

Do you think I don't know that Rolex doesn't see any of the money? Who said anything about Rolex promoting price gouging?

Then why would they support an AD who is price gouging? It's not simple economics, Rolex has pricing agreements with its AD's.

[Westland]

Originally Posted by BadgerHawk

Which cars routinely go for over MSRP? Porsche maybe?

It happens all the time...The Corvette, Ford Raptor, even the T-bird initially went for above retail when it was re-introduced back in 2000.

[Westland]

Because they want the watch??? Have you ever bought from an AD (not a boutique)??? I've purchased Rolex watches from my AD at both above AND below retail...

Sir, if a re-seller, in this case, the AD, can get above retail price, that doesn't comport with Rolex promoting price gouging? Why do you persist on saying that?

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Then why would they support an AD who is price gouging? It's not simple economics, Rolex has pricing agreements with its AD's.

[Westland]

Any pricing arrangement between Rolex and its AD's is strictly implicit, not set in stone... Unless the piece is in demand, like a Daytona ceramic or D-blue, everybody gets a discount from the AD. Everybody knows that. It's in every incoming thread on this forum.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Westland

Because they want the watch??? Have you ever bought from an AD (not a boutique)??? I've purchased Rolex watches from my AD at both above AND below retail...

Sir, if a re-seller, in this case, the AD, can get above retail price, that doesn't comport with Rolex promoting price gouging? Why do you persist on saying that?

You are saying Rolex supports AD's price gouging. I am saying the mothership strives to control pricing.

Originally Posted by Westland

Any pricing arrangement between Rolex and its AD's is strictly implicit, not set in stone... Unless the piece is in demand, like a Daytona ceramic or D-blue, everybody gets a discount from the AD. Everybody knows that. It's in every incoming thread on this forum.

Not everybody gets a discount. There are many locations that offer zero discount on SS watches.

And, you have no way to know what the individual pricing agreements require. My AD tells me he cannot sell above MSRP and has a maximum discount he can offer on various models without getting penalized.

[speedmaster73]

Abdullah speaks the 'truth'

[Westland]

Kind Sir, this is how I look at it: It's not Rolex who is promoting any sort of price gouging if an AD is able to get market value for a piece.

I will concede that all situations are different when it comes to people's experiences with AD's... I've noticed this trend with respect to the new Daytona and waitlists: The better your relationship with your AD, meaning, the more watches you've purchased, the more likely you'll get the new Daytona at MSRP.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You are saying Rolex supports AD's price gouging. I am saying the mothership strives to control pricing.



Not everybody gets a discount. There are many locations that offer zero discount on SS watches.

And, you have no way to know what the individual pricing agreements require. My AD tells me he cannot sell above MSRP and has a maximum discount he can offer on various models without getting penalized.

[Westland]

Outside of the new Daytona and the D-blue, and maybe the BLNR, if you can't muster a discount from an AD, then you need to look at ways of improving your negotiating skills... More often than not, people are getting discounts...and that's the truth.

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by kid4life

I know!! but I can't get too mad - I ended up getting a great price on the BLNR (which he has in stock too! - if anyone is interested).



I will patiently play the waiting game or grow tired of it and say screw it and just the buy the platona!

Buy the platona! Problem solved.

[Rocket_Man]

Originally Posted by Westland

Kind Sir, this is how I look at it: It's not Rolex who is promoting any sort of price gouging if an AD is able to get market value for a piece.

I will concede that all situations are different when it comes to people's experiences with AD's... I've noticed this trend with respect to the new Daytona and waitlists: The better your relationship with your AD, meaning, the more watches you've purchased, the more likely you'll get the new Daytona at MSRP.

The ADs buy the watches from Rolex (at a reduced price of course) and own them. If they want to remain an AD they need to abide by their agreement with Rolex. US AD's are not allowed to markup a watch above MSRP. That is why it is nearly impossible to find one unspoken for at a US AD and why wait lists exist. If an AD is caught doing this they could lose their AD status. It is just not worth it. They already have that watch sold the minute they get a new one in the store. Instant profit.

Once an AD has a watch they may sell it at a discount to move inventory and get new allocation. But they are not allowed to sell outside their market area which means they are not allowed to sell over the internet for example. So the local market supply and demand may vary because there are restrictions to an ADs territory. Some markets they don't need to discount to sell watches, some markets are different, or maybe a particular watch is a slow mover. Sure folks on TRF love to brag about the great price they got on a watch. They may well be repeat customers and are getting preferential treatment. Not everyone is getting discounts. You will never see an AD advertise a sale on Rolex watches. This is also not allowed. Discounts are negotiated real-time with the buyer and so it is not easy for Rolex to monitor this. Marking up the watch is a different thing and would be much easier to spot by Rolex and the ADs are more likely to get caught doing this than discounting a watch real-time.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You are saying Rolex supports AD's price gouging. I am saying the mothership strives to control pricing.

Not everybody gets a discount. There are many locations that offer zero discount on SS watches.

And, you have no way to know what the individual pricing agreements require. My AD tells me he cannot sell above MSRP and has a maximum discount he can offer on various models without getting penalized.

This ^^

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You are saying Rolex supports AD's price gouging. I am saying the mothership strives to control pricing.







Not everybody gets a discount. There are many locations that offer zero discount on SS watches.



And, you have no way to know what the individual pricing agreements require. My AD tells me he cannot sell above MSRP and has a maximum discount he can offer on various models without getting penalized.

A written agreement with ADs dictating the price the watches they own can be sold at would likely be an antitrust violation.

[Robbyman]

While not haute horology I think Rolex has underpriced models. What can you get for 9k UK Sterling that comes near to a DaytonaC. Not just the watch but brand and kudos do come into it. If it was 12 or 13k they would still shift them.

[xbox]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

'Perpetual' greed is one of the more unfortunate and ongoing trademarks of human nature.

Closely followed by stupidity

[Westland]

I'm actually in agreement with most everything you said here, but I'm not totally sure that an AD is restricted from selling above MSRP. Sorry, but there are too many instances where people are paying a premium. Now maybe Rolex doesn't quite like the practice, but I don't see it necessarily policing the situation, either. And you don't think AD's have creative ways of hiding said premium accounting-wise?

The point of the matter is that if the OP is willing to buck-up, he can have one tomorrow, from a number of sources. But I don't see any one individual playing cop and taking down an AD for price gouging...Lol... I mean, c'mon...

Originally Posted by Rocket_Man

The ADs buy the watches from Rolex (at a reduced price of course) and own them. If they want to remain an AD they need to abide by their agreement with Rolex. US AD's are not allowed to markup a watch above MSRP. That is why it is nearly impossible to find one unspoken for at a US AD and why wait lists exist. If an AD is caught doing this they could lose their AD status. It is just not worth it. They already have that watch sold the minute they get a new one in the store. Instant profit.

Once an AD has a watch they may sell it at a discount to move inventory and get new allocation. But they are not allowed to sell outside their market area which means they are not allowed to sell over the internet for example. So the local market supply and demand may vary because there are restrictions to an ADs territory. Some markets they don't need to discount to sell watches, some markets are different, or maybe a particular watch is a slow mover. Sure folks on TRF love to brag about the great price they got on a watch. They may well be repeat customers and are getting preferential treatment. Not everyone is getting discounts. You will never see an AD advertise a sale on Rolex watches. This is also not allowed. Discounts are negotiated real-time with the buyer and so it is not easy for Rolex to monitor this. Marking up the watch is a different thing and would be much easier to spot by Rolex and the ADs are more likely to get caught doing this than discounting a watch real-time.

[kid4life]

Maybe if I agree to buy both the AD will give me a "discount" and sell them at msrp?!

[Westland]

I think you're right, kid...

[Alexwwjd]

Don't buy over MSRP. Enjoy the wait, don't rush into buying it, you'll not be happy.

[77T]

If you can afford the Platona it would seem you could pay for both 500's above MSRP.