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Old 13 March 2017, 05:47 AM   #1
lapince
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Wish for Nautilus

I know Patek isn't in new materials and all that, but I would love if one day they made a full ceramic Nautilus, or full cermet, or with cermet bezel, AP has been doing it and results are great, to the point that I might take the plunge on their new ceramic PC one day, the only thing stopping me is the 85k needed to get it, if it would be at 60k I would have my name on the waiting list, also hoping that they make a ceramic Jumbo as I don't really care for the complication. So since they are very similar watches, I think what looks spectacular on one would look as spectacular on the other, if anybody has direct access to Thierry...

Here are pics, if anybody here is any good with photoshop I would love to see a ceramic Nautilus, if not you can like me imagine, unfortunately as much as AP doing it doesn't surprise me, PP doing it would surprise me, but I guess so was PP doing a watch in SS in the 70's, so anything is possible, for me the AP ce PC is clearly Haute Horlogerie and apart a few old school Patek purists, no one would be shocked if they made one...

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Old 13 March 2017, 06:03 AM   #2
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It's a cool looking watch but my feelings might be the complete opposite of you - I'd love to see a perpetual calendar nautilus, but would rather see it in steel, not ceramic. But, maybe if I saw it in person I'd change my mind
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:09 AM   #3
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You'll be able to get that watch at 60 in 6 months.
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:13 AM   #4
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My dear friend sorry but ceramics are for bathrooms
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:26 AM   #5
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My dear friend sorry but ceramics are for bathrooms
x2
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:28 AM   #6
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Looks kind of cool, but I think it will look dated very quickly. Forged carbon didn't seem to last very long.

However I applaud AP for daring to be different.
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:43 AM   #7
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I love AP and where they are headed but this was not my cup of tea, with that said Patek should focus on QC for the moment.
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:53 AM   #8
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Doesn't seem to be PP's cup of tea.
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Old 13 March 2017, 07:02 AM   #9
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We can all agree that ceramic is a good material for a cup of tea though.
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Old 13 March 2017, 09:32 AM   #10
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Doesn't seem very Patek to me and that's fine. I would prefer a ceramic aquanaut personally. That's a watch I would love.

I am actually hoping for some updates to the 5167 for the 20th. Not holding my breath but this year being the 20th for the aquanaut and 50th for the seadweller has me as excited as ever for Basel. Two of my favorites from each manufacturer!
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Old 13 March 2017, 09:36 AM   #11
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Lapince, the most outside of the box thinking PP does is switch dials and maybe from Gold to Plat.

But that is the brand and it works for them (and that is NOT a bad thing).

Kinda plain IMHO, but the brand isn't about forward thinking change, so they are consistent.

NOW, if they came out with a plat 5990--that would be sweet. Creative--no. Would I like--yes.
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Old 13 March 2017, 10:10 AM   #12
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AP do an amazing job of constantly innovating and creating really interesting watches with the latest materials, the problem with constant change and evolution though is that it can cause models to become 'fashionable' and consequently outdated very quickly. That is something I'm very aware of with AP, the new model you just got will soon be 'last years' model.

With PP that strict lack of major change means that there is much more long term value in the watches' designs as they don't get outdated nearly as easily or quickly.

I love what AP do, but I don't feel it would be right for the PP brand to be doing that. Very much a case of classic vs modern. You could have the same discussion ref art, architecture, fashion, etc!
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Old 13 March 2017, 10:44 AM   #13
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Hi all, I'm a newbie in this forum and just wanted to know your opinion :) if AP made very limited numbers of each "creative, interesting" watch, and let's say stopped production after a year or so of that specific model would it become "last year's model' or could it possibly become a "collector's item"?
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Old 13 March 2017, 10:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by texex91 View Post
Lapince, the most outside of the box thinking PP does is switch dials and maybe from Gold to Plat.

But that is the brand and it works for them (and that is NOT a bad thing).

Kinda plain IMHO, but the brand isn't about forward thinking change, so they are consistent.

NOW, if they came out with a plat 5990--that would be sweet. Creative--no. Would I like--yes.
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AP do an amazing job of constantly innovating and creating really interesting watches with the latest materials, the problem with constant change and evolution though is that it can cause models to become 'fashionable' and consequently outdated very quickly. That is something I'm very aware of with AP, the new model you just got will soon be 'last years' model.

With PP that strict lack of major change means that there is much more long term value in the watches' designs as they don't get outdated nearly as easily or quickly.

I love what AP do, but I don't feel it would be right for the PP brand to be doing that. Very much a case of classic vs modern. You could have the same discussion ref art, architecture, fashion, etc!
Yes PP is too conservative for this, innovation is the province of AP and RM. What I'd like is a simpler AP RO with a plain dial or a chrono and maybe in 41mm as well.
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Old 13 March 2017, 10:51 AM   #15
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Innovation takes many forms. One brand invented the perpetual calendar, the other makes watches out of random materials. I like gold and platinum. We've sought after and fought over those metals for millennia. Ceramic, carbon fiber, ntpt - I appreciate the novelty and skill and ingenuity, but it doesn't look better or feel better and it's not as timeless.
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Old 13 March 2017, 11:05 AM   #16
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I like looking to the future and not the past.

And for me NTPT feels MUCH better on the wrist.

But I prefer light watches.

Patek does a great job on the 'classic' materials for sure.

Lapince, it would be nice to see something different at some point. Just not counting on it.
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Old 13 March 2017, 11:10 AM   #17
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I like the AP perpetual ceramic and can't wait to see it later this month. However, don't see it for PP.
However, in the pics of the AP when the moon disappears the watch looks a little flat.
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Old 13 March 2017, 11:37 AM   #18
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I like looking to the future and not the past.

And for me NTPT feels MUCH better on the wrist.

But I prefer light watches.

Patek does a great job on the 'classic' materials for sure.

Lapince, it would be nice to see something different at some point. Just not counting on it.
The Nadal I agree felt different on the wrist. I can't tell much difference otherwise. We're talking grams here. I do like that you can bang ntpt into doors and tables without worries.
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Old 13 March 2017, 12:30 PM   #19
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PP is evolution versus revolution. Can you imagine e the outcry about PP DNA if they did something different! Most owners are nostalgic looking back and not forward. It makes them a ton of money now but a foundation for the future???
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Old 13 March 2017, 04:46 PM   #20
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it is very nice with AP brand. Patek name wouldn't match with it. I'd love to see a perpetual nautilus or a full rose gold bracelet with blue dial in nautilus...
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Old 13 March 2017, 06:12 PM   #21
lapince
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It's a cool looking watch but my feelings might be the complete opposite of you - I'd love to see a perpetual calendar nautilus, but would rather see it in steel, not ceramic. But, maybe if I saw it in person I'd change my mind
Just from pics I really love it, but I always loved ceramic watches

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Originally Posted by Marciano490 View Post
You'll be able to get that watch at 60 in 6 months.
Well really hoping that will be the case

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Originally Posted by Passionata View Post
My dear friend sorry but ceramics are for bathrooms
no problem my friend we all have our tastes and thankfully we don't have the same for everything

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Originally Posted by RussW View Post
Looks kind of cool, but I think it will look dated very quickly. Forged carbon didn't seem to last very long.

However I applaud AP for daring to be different.
Well ceramic has been out for many years, there also have been PVD watches since a very long time, for me ceramic is like PVD, black but the coating doesn't scratch off

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I love AP and where they are headed but this was not my cup of tea, with that said Patek should focus on QC for the moment.
Fortunately I have been lucky and the watches I have don't have any issues but yes there have been some problems

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Doesn't seem very Patek to me and that's fine. I would prefer a ceramic aquanaut personally. That's a watch I would love.

I am actually hoping for some updates to the 5167 for the 20th. Not holding my breath but this year being the 20th for the aquanaut and 50th for the seadweller has me as excited as ever for Basel. Two of my favorites from each manufacturer!
Yes a ceramic Aquanaut would be quite cool as well, about Basel seeing something new and cool would be great, not expecting anything special for the Nautilus but would like to see a new Aquanaut

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Originally Posted by texex91 View Post
Lapince, the most outside of the box thinking PP does is switch dials and maybe from Gold to Plat.

But that is the brand and it works for them (and that is NOT a bad thing).

Kinda plain IMHO, but the brand isn't about forward thinking change, so they are consistent.

NOW, if they came out with a plat 5990--that would be sweet. Creative--no. Would I like--yes.
Not sure you would like to wear it as it would weigh a ton, a pt 5711 is already 280gr, so the 5990 would be a real brick

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Originally Posted by steaklover88 View Post
Hi all, I'm a newbie in this forum and just wanted to know your opinion :) if AP made very limited numbers of each "creative, interesting" watch, and let's say stopped production after a year or so of that specific model would it become "last year's model' or could it possibly become a "collector's item"?
Well the ceramic diver is clearly a kind of collector's item as they didn't make many, only around 500, the members here who have one are clearly not letting them go, second hand prices are almost what the retail was, but others haven't followed the same path

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Yes PP is too conservative for this, innovation is the province of AP and RM. What I'd like is a simpler AP RO with a plain dial or a chrono and maybe in 41mm as well.
I agree, it's not PP territory, maybe one day as I don't think anyone imagined in the 70's that they would make a steel watch

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Originally Posted by Marciano490 View Post
Innovation takes many forms. One brand invented the perpetual calendar, the other makes watches out of random materials. I like gold and platinum. We've sought after and fought over those metals for millennia. Ceramic, carbon fiber, ntpt - I appreciate the novelty and skill and ingenuity, but it doesn't look better or feel better and it's not as timeless.
Well if you have ceramic you do take away the scratch problem, so i a way your watch does look better since it will always stay the same. About feel better it makes it much lighter then steel or gold, but of course in titanium it will be as light or maybe even lighter

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The Nadal I agree felt different on the wrist. I can't tell much difference otherwise. We're talking grams here. I do like that you can bang ntpt into doors and tables without worries.
Hard for me to tell as most of my watches are 100-120gr, weight is a factor but the most important is comfort IMO, when I had my Rolex and Pams they were around 140-150gr, so not way more than my actual watches, but when I got the 5712, they all felt really uncom to wear, so I hated wearing them

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Originally Posted by KarlS View Post
PP is evolution versus revolution. Can you imagine e the outcry about PP DNA if they did something different! Most owners are nostalgic looking back and not forward. It makes them a ton of money now but a foundation for the future???
I agree, like the outcry of the Nautilus I can imagine, but what a success

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it is very nice with AP brand. Patek name wouldn't match with it. I'd love to see a perpetual nautilus or a full rose gold bracelet with blue dial in nautilus...
I agree that a gold with blue dial would be nice, if ever one day I go full gold I would get the AP Jumbo instead of the 5711, because of the blue dial, brown is very nice but prefer blue
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Old 13 March 2017, 07:07 PM   #22
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My dear friend sorry but ceramics are for bathrooms
Hahaha good one. So true tho. SS over Ceramic any day.
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Old 13 March 2017, 07:13 PM   #23
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Hahaha good one. So true tho. SS over Ceramic any day.
Well I really hope that most people will feel that way as it means the price would drop consequently but at the same time the ceramic diver price has been stable enough
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Old 13 March 2017, 07:16 PM   #24
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Well I really hope that most people will feel that way as it means the price would drop consequently but at the same time the ceramic diver price has been stable enough
I may be in the wrong and someone please correct me if Im wrong. But is ceramic really that "expensive" to make? I assume not all ceramic is the same or what not. The watch brands makes us believe ceramic is so expensive but I have my doubts.
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Old 13 March 2017, 07:37 PM   #25
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If you like black pateks, there is always this option:



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Old 13 March 2017, 09:24 PM   #26
lapince
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I may be in the wrong and someone please correct me if Im wrong. But is ceramic really that "expensive" to make? I assume not all ceramic is the same or what not. The watch brands makes us believe ceramic is so expensive but I have my doubts.
Not really sure it is expensive in itself, but AP ceramic is something like 3-4 times harder than steel, so it should take more time to make it compared to metal

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If you like black pateks, there is always this option:



Oh no, as much as I like ceramic watches, I really don't like those, that is not an option
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Old 14 March 2017, 01:40 AM   #27
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I may be in the wrong and someone please correct me if Im wrong. But is ceramic really that "expensive" to make? I assume not all ceramic is the same or what not. The watch brands makes us believe ceramic is so expensive but I have my doubts.
No it's just expensive to machine. Not the raw materials cost but the tooling, manufacturing etc.
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Old 14 March 2017, 02:52 AM   #28
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Lapince, the most outside of the box thinking PP does is switch dials and maybe from Gold to Plat.

But that is the brand and it works for them (and that is NOT a bad thing).

Kinda plain IMHO, but the brand isn't about forward thinking change, so they are consistent.

NOW, if they came out with a plat 5990--that would be sweet. Creative--no. Would I like--yes.
Platinum 5990 would be killer especially with the blue dial.
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Old 14 March 2017, 05:45 AM   #29
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I may be in the wrong and someone please correct me if Im wrong. But is ceramic really that "expensive" to make? I assume not all ceramic is the same or what not. The watch brands makes us believe ceramic is so expensive but I have my doubts.
AP are using the exact same Zirconium Oxide (ZrO2) that these lot are:

Chopard (LUC 8HF)
Hublot (Big Bang, Classic Fusion)
Junghans (various)
RADO (various)
Chanel (J12)
Blancpain (Bathyscaphe)
Glashutte Original (Sport Evolution)
Gerard Perregaux (Chrono Hawk)
Richard Mille
Bell & Ross
Perrelet (Eve)
Jaquet-Droz
Zenith
Ebel
Bvlgari
Corum
IWC
Jaeger Le-Coultre
Ulysse Nardin (El Toro)

Some of those brands only have ladies models in ceramic, and there are others I’ve left out or forgotten about.


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No it's just expensive to machine. Not the raw materials cost but the tooling, manufacturing etc.
When it comes to ceramic parts, manufacturers aren’t going to make them such that then need a lot of machining.
The cost will stem from rejects that are undersized, since the material shrinks – but proper R&D will minimise that, so the tidying up and brushing (for those not left glossy and reflective as they are when leaving the mould).
Even then, brushing is not exactly that hard, since there are numerous grades of gritted paper/tools which are harder than ceramic.

On the hardness scale, ceramic is high 7s to low 8s – that leaves industrial diamonds or tungsten carbide, as sapphire is too costly to use for such purposes.

FWIW, Rado introduced a new ceramic compound at Baselworld last year, based on silicon – it’s almost half the weight of ZrO2 and circa 50% harder again.
They finally released the first watches using it in December – a 300 piece Ltd Edition pair under the Hyperchrome range, called the Ultra Lights.
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Old 14 March 2017, 09:03 AM   #30
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AP are using the exact same Zirconium Oxide (ZrO2) that these lot are:

Chopard (LUC 8HF)
Hublot (Big Bang, Classic Fusion)
Junghans (various)
RADO (various)
Chanel (J12)
Blancpain (Bathyscaphe)
Glashutte Original (Sport Evolution)
Gerard Perregaux (Chrono Hawk)
Richard Mille
Bell & Ross
Perrelet (Eve)
Jaquet-Droz
Zenith
Ebel
Bvlgari
Corum
IWC
Jaeger Le-Coultre
Ulysse Nardin (El Toro)
And Patek and every other brand is using the same gold and platinum as every other brand
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