ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
24 March 2017, 11:35 PM | #61 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 4,180
|
Quote:
|
|
25 March 2017, 02:38 AM | #62 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Real Name: Eustace
Location: MiddleOfNowhere
Posts: 59
|
I think recently it has become fashionable to criticise Patek.
I see it everywhere, whether it is Hodinkee, forums or elsewhere. Sometimes it's the size of the movements or finishing that's criticised - and compared to Lange. Other times it's said they "lack innovation and new ideas" (often compared to AP's ceramics, or Breguets patented new tech etc). For me, Patek is King.. and that title is not under threat. Can anyone think of one other brand that makes one of the best sports watches (Nautilus, Aquanaut) and the best dress watches (5196 for me) as well as being the (undisputed?) king of minute repeaters and other high-end complications. Talking about demand here so please don't bring up AP with Millenary and Royal Oak... or Rolex Sub and Cellini. Lange and FPJ only make "dress" watches. None of their watches have stood the test of time yet, so we'll know in a decade or two what the consensus is on the design front. I think, thick, rounded designs can't age too well (Lange's Dato and others). Patek increases the size of its sports watch (aquanaut) and everyone starts going on about how Patek is dying. But it's ok when FPJ makes 42mm dress watches. Having said all that, I would prefer if Patek stuck to smaller case sizes and tradition (no silicon, no cut out dials). Just thought I would put my thoughts out there. Don't mean to cause offence or talk other brands down. |
25 March 2017, 03:15 AM | #63 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 431
|
Quote:
The problem is Patek isn't being measured against FPJ/Lange/AP etc, it's being measured against Patek and against itself it is NOT the company it was... I've got a real problem now investing in their pieces. TS has - built some really bling brand-destroying diamond crap. - overproduced like crazy with knock on effects on quality, value and aftersales service which was, by all accounts, appalling recently. - presided over a time where, with the exception of the Nautilus, PP's sit in dealer windows for months at at time, to sell at heavy discounts under the table and have pretty poor residuals (when measured against the past) - has made some questionable design decisions - recycling movements in ever bigger cases giving a stretched look to quite a few pieces. I GET THAT THE OBJECTIVE FOR THEM IS TO MAKE MONEY, but when collectors are walking away from the brand, TS is going to fail in this objective too. PP is the king yes. But not compared to itself. On a practical level, what does that mean? Why the hell would I buy a botched Patek 5372 when I could buy a 3940 which I know was built in smaller quantities, to higher standards, when the company was run by people that cared about customers like me?? For a bigger case? No thanks. P.S. the new 5320 is more like it. The 5170p is nice - it could have been perfect. But TS wanted blingtastic. Not happy. |
|
25 March 2017, 10:17 AM | #64 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 8,391
|
5320G on order.
|
25 March 2017, 10:33 AM | #65 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 19,041
|
^^^^ stay on target
|
25 March 2017, 10:56 AM | #66 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,341
|
Quote:
Times have changed in the watch industry. Over the past 3 years, the Swiss watch industry has been going through a major slump, not unlike the quartz crisis of the 1980s. Amongst the major Swiss watch manufacturers, Patek, Rolex and a few others are still keeping their head above the water. Other Swiss watch companies are doing horribly and ADs are often in quite a bind with what to do with excess inventory. There is a market for the diamond and Patek is meeting that demand. Look at some of the Rolex watches with diamond on the bezel and the dial. In North America and western Europe, we often see diamond as "bling". But there are definitely parts of the world where people want the diamond. They may not be Patek's traditional clients from the past 30-40 years, but they are Patek's future clients in the upcoming 30-40 years. Over the past 10-15 years, Patek has introduced the 27-525, 27-535, 28-520, 31-260 movements. They haven't changed the base 240, 215 and 324 movements, but they are workhorses that keep on going and I don't see a significant reason to spend a lot of R&D resources on their base movements. No one complains that the movement is too small on a 5070. Patek is known for their complications and they spent a lot of R&D producing a watch like the Grandmaster Chime. I know this watch does not get much attention on watch forums, but just imagine how many watchmaker hours were expended in designing and producing the 5175/6300. I am a bit puzzled how one can compare a 5372 with a 3940. I am not sure if you meant to refer to the 5327, but the 5372P using the Caliber 29-525 is at the 5951P level, held in higher regard than the 5204. |
|
25 March 2017, 11:13 AM | #67 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: England
Watch: 5990
Posts: 3,339
|
Quote:
Your post seems disingenuous to me. |
|
25 March 2017, 11:19 AM | #68 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: England
Watch: 5990
Posts: 3,339
|
Quote:
Steven, I respect your opinion, you clearly don't like Patek any more. But why the constant criticism? Have you nothing better to do, it's getting very tedious. |
|
25 March 2017, 11:59 AM | #69 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 19,436
|
Good point Russ. Have been talking with other collectors and quite a few of us have moved on. We talked about the new collection, not much excitement and still many of the same flaws. Many won't ever go public about their feelings, as they stay under the radar. Think the vintage Pateks will do well so there could be a few sweet spots on those.
Patek is not King, ok, maybe yes for mass produced watches. Nowadays there are far more impressive independents doing exquisite work. Have a feeling many would agree Patek is simply not 'superior' as they once were years ago. Many of us are hoping Patek hears enough valid complaints to make changes. As i have posted before, they need to hire a quality consultant. Many years ago Patek was very well respected, yet it is obvious they have become less-so in today's marketplace. So that begs the question, did Patek get worse or has their competition become superior? Perhaps a bit of both imho.
__________________
__________________ “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'Wow! What a Ride!'” -- Hunter S. Thompson Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory. |
25 March 2017, 12:01 PM | #70 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,431
|
|
25 March 2017, 03:05 PM | #71 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 623
|
|
25 March 2017, 03:55 PM | #72 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: .
Posts: 17,898
|
Man I go racing for a few days and this thread goes to the **it hole.
Music dude if you want to bitch about PP, start another thread. This thread was for people who where ordering SIHH pieces or thinking about it. #annoying |
25 March 2017, 04:00 PM | #73 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Istanbul
Watch: PP-AP- FPJ
Posts: 403
|
I had an order at another PP which is due for delivery August and just to experiment how quickly I can get, I added 5168g. The dealer said noted but did not say if he will get one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
25 March 2017, 05:35 PM | #74 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 431
|
Quote:
Well remembered though! And sadly my frustrated post is completely sincere... |
|
25 March 2017, 07:20 PM | #75 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: England
Watch: 5990
Posts: 3,339
|
Quote:
In that case though, I am sure your post was sincere. |
|
26 March 2017, 06:45 AM | #76 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 19,436
|
Sure, how about some Aerosmith as they're a fun Boston band.
__________________
__________________ “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'Wow! What a Ride!'” -- Hunter S. Thompson Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory. |
26 March 2017, 08:19 AM | #77 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex and Patek
Posts: 10,595
|
PP is king
I agree they are the best at their production levels but many independents are making better watches. Having said that, PP most likely will be around 50 years from now and the independents who knows. The longevity of PP adds to its lasting value of its products.
I doubt the current market supports smaller cased watches. PP has to move with the market but they have held as much as they can to maintain allegiance to the smaller end of the current huge. 43mm for a thin manual dress watch is crazy. Hopefully, the trend will move smaller soon. |
27 March 2017, 02:02 AM | #78 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 19,436
|
Best at what? Long service wait time? Highest pricing for features? Illusion of value? We all know they lack durability and have short warranty compared to other brands.
__________________
__________________ “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'Wow! What a Ride!'” -- Hunter S. Thompson Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory. |
27 March 2017, 02:21 AM | #79 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 791
|
Oh good lord, if you don't like Patek, don't buy one. Plenty of us who like their direction. I want the new jumbo aquanaut. The blue with the larger case size is killer for me! Love it!
|
27 March 2017, 02:24 AM | #80 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 19,041
|
^^^^^
|
27 March 2017, 02:30 AM | #81 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 3,099
|
Enjoythemusic you sound like a broken record and that's not very enjoyable. You've made it clear Patek in your opinion isn't what it used to be so now we all know the words to your song and maybe you should start your own thread and see where that leads.
|
28 March 2017, 11:01 AM | #82 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,431
|
The 5320 is growing on me. Anyone know when deliveries are expected?
|
28 March 2017, 11:36 AM | #83 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 3,099
|
|
28 March 2017, 01:28 PM | #84 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Belgium
Posts: 403
|
5320G on order too
|
28 March 2017, 01:35 PM | #85 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,431
|
I mean, the 5320g is ugly. Nobody should wear that watch. I hear it's cursed.
|
28 March 2017, 01:58 PM | #86 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Watch: addiction issues
Posts: 36,859
|
|
28 March 2017, 04:59 PM | #87 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
|
Going to hold back on everything till I see them in the metal on 3 May. Whilst in market for perpetual not sure where 5320 is better than 5327 aesthetically. White window and dream dial with WG. Doesn't always look correct in 5146G but reserving judgement
|
29 March 2017, 12:12 AM | #88 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Real Name: Eustace
Location: MiddleOfNowhere
Posts: 59
|
This is what I have on order. Was a bit worried about the size increase, but looks fantastic on the wrist. Pic off of Hodinkee. I personally think, this is one of the better Basel showings from Patek. |
29 March 2017, 01:08 AM | #89 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 4,180
|
|
29 March 2017, 01:28 AM | #90 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Paradise
Watch: on the dark side
Posts: 543
|
Maybe some day... maybe not...
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.