Critical dissection of some Patek Basel 2017 Releases

[thomaspp]

I thought I'd share my views. Please take with a grain of salt and please chime in one way or another.

1. 5131P – The highly anticipated worldtimer to complete the foursome of the collectible enamel worldtimers. I like the idea of the map layout, but will all the white/snow on the dial affect the contrast with the hands making it less legible? I think I prefer the R and the J that have a certain warmth. And why did Patek have to go with a bracelet? I saw online that this will now weigh close to half a pound! Totally unnecessary….
5131_1P_001.png

2. 5960G – While the watch looks more appealing than the silver dialed steel counterpart, this is a very strange move that may hurt the value of the 5960P with blue dial which was rarer than the grey dialed 5960P. Patek probably could care less, but a nod to your loyal collector base would be nice by not reissuing essentially the same dial in a white gold case. Now that we are on topic, a few big collectors are quite upset that Patek has now made the 5271 with rubies, etc. regular productions watches…. Looks like Thierry ignores and disregards the collector market.
5960_01G_001.png

3. 5168G – Although attractive why is this 2mm bigger than the steel aquanaut? It is not OK to just throw the same movement into a slightly bigger case by the way. In particular when your competitor (looking at you Lange) are redesigning entire movements to fit bigger watches.
5168G_001.png

4. 5170P – Quite attractive. My gripe is primarily with the baguette diamonds on the dial which look huge and just completely unnecessary. Why is Patek putting diamonds on so many of their men’s watches (looking at you anniversary Nautilus)? Who is this catering to? There are a good chunk of collector’s out there (myself included) who would like to see the “new” Patek come up with more traditional and “toned down” / classic watches as Philippe Stern once did.

By the way, if the price of this one really is under $100k, that is good to hear and maybe a recognition of the fact that the 5170s have been overpriced at $80k.
5170P_001.png

5. 6006G – Looks great, but again, why is the case being blown up? The 6000G was 37mm

6006G_001.png

6. 5320 – No, no, no. I get that everyone wants to do heritage looking watches in today’s market where vintage is king, but a perpetual calendar should not be 40mm, and the materials (including the dial) should not be made to look “vintage” (also looking at you Omega Trilogy).
5320G_001.png

7. 5650G Advanced Research – Seriously? I thought the CEO of Zenith got kicked out for creating watches with parts of the dial cut out….

ref_5650G_1_zoomed.jpg

I will give it time to see if I come around to any of these or find anything from the Thierry-era for that matter with staying power in my collection, but for now, not very excited to say the least.

I have to ask myself, will we begin to see a clear distinction in both collectability, value retention and other important considerations between the pre-Thierry Stern era Pateks and the post-Thierry productions? Maybe I’m a watch nerd and the average Patek buyer doesn't care about most of what I said above….

That’s all. Thanks for reading and please chime in.

[kultschar]

That advanced research is one hell of a ugly design on what should be a stunning watch!

Also agree about the 5167 movement simply chucked into a larger case - a little slapdash in my opinion

[martinr]

I just saw this, it's Thierry Stern talking about two of the above.


https://youtu.be/Mr8_9dLvc4E

[raclaims]

Great write up and I agree with all of it

[martinr]

My feelings about them.

I'm not into world times so no comment on that one.

5960 is weird for a couple reasons. The brown strap should be blue. The little detail on the pushers is sort of vintage but the watch isn't. This shouldn't upset other blue dial 5960P owners, it's very different, the hands, the chrono counter, and the way the day and month are framed. Everybody wanted the 5960 1A on a strap so this is close but WG.

I like the 5170P, the diamonds are ok but Breguet like before would be better.

I like the Aquanaut. I think you care more about the size of the movement than most people that buy Aquanauts. This new 42 is more attention getting.

5320 is too fake looking, I don't like the hands or the numbers.

Calatrava seems ok, it's not a watch I would buy.

Advanced Research Aquanaut might be technologically interesting but it's ugly.

[Tony64]

Thomas, obviously opinions will vary, but I personally couldn't agree with you more.

Your post summarizes the situation articulately and respectfully, and mirrors my thoughts exactly.

[RHJ]

Really a great writing and accurate observing! Thanks

[AK797]

Agree with most of that, Thomas. Altho speaking of mismatched dials and movements I remember the old Lange 1s with that strange Venn diagram thing going on. When you knew that wasn't the intended design it ruined the watch for me. Glad they corrected that.

[jon_jon]

1) 5131P is different from the J/G/R and Patek was very intentional here. Especially for special pieces, Patek wants the P version to not be confused with the G version and although I don't personally like the bracelet, it is a classic style bracelet that Patek has been using for decades. So not a major surprise move from Patek on the 5131/1P.

2) 5960G is a surprising announcement. After Patek discontinued the 5960P/R and replaced it with the 5905P, I was expecting Patek to continue with the 5905 series in different metal. If someone wants a AC Chrono with a blue dial, they will probably go with a 5905P instead of the 5960G. But who knows what Patek is thinking here.

3) The 5168G will be a hit IMO. It will allow non-Patek owners who like big dial sports watches to now consider a Patek watch. The Aquanaut and Nautilus are still the two most commonly purchased watches for first time Patek owners. I can see why Patek made this move. They are not discontinuing the 5167A, but adding another option with the 5168G in a larger size case and a blue dial.

4) 5170P is probably one of those watches that need to be seen in person to see if the diamond baguettes detract from the watch or not. Most people who purchased the Nautilus 40th Anniversary Edition watches didn't seem to be bothered by the diamond baguettes and this may also apply to the 5170P. However we will have to wait until the watch makes it to ADs for a more up close look.

5) The 6000 was not a popular watch within the Calatrava family. With the 6006G, will the larger size make people like the watch now? I don't think so, but let's give Patek some credit for trying.

6) You have to watch the youtube video of Thierry Stern talking about the 5320G with Wei Koh (from Revolution Magazine). I actually like the vintage look. There hasn't been any significant change to the appearance of a Patek PC in the past 20+ years. This watch is a nice welcome change IMO.

7) Once again, after watching the youtube video of Thierry Stern explaining the technical aspects of the AR, you can not overlook the importance of this major release from Patek. +2 to -1 daily tolerance is really at the tourbillon level. I doubt many collectors will wear this watch as this watch will go straight to a bank vault.

[Calatrava r]

What size should a perpetual calendar be in your view. They run the gamut from 37mm (5140p) to 42mm for the GO from what I see. I personally love and have the rose Lange at 38.5mm. But 40mm seem to be about normal for the current market.

[hutchman]

I believe the bracelet on the 5131p was done simply for the extra profit made from an all platinum bracelet. They'll still sell everyone they can make! Why sell a watch for $80k when you can sell one for $120k?

I love the 5320 so I disagree but I mostly agree with everything else you said.

[Hairdude1]

Great write up Thomas!

[Vipes]

I agree with almost everything that you mentioned. It seems that Patek is trying too hard to appeal to the younger clientele. Upsizing a few of their pieces to gain more wrist presence (PP 5905, 5524, 5168, and 5650). As a result, the movement is too small for the case. Adding diamond markers to the anniversary Nautilus and the 5170P for more bling is another way to attract the younger crowd. The thing that I most like about Patek is their reserved size and style. Some of their newer pieces seem to move away from this.

There are few modern Pateks that I still really like and look forward to adding to my collection. My favorites from this year are the 5170P and the 5320G. The 5170p looks awesome but the diamond markers kill it for me. The 5320 looks awesome can't wait to see it IRL.

[watch-guy.com]

Thomas

I could not agree more

As a vintage collector this is not my market but there is nothing in this line up which makes me want to change the direction of my collection
You are spot on regarding omega ( and can include Rolex in your comments)

Baselword= re-edition world

Interesting that most agree with you on this thread
Great write up

Julian

[toucan]

Perfect analysis!

[SSDAYTONAHULK]

I love my 5980/1A even more after I saw Basel 2017. I'm good

[hbk25]

The Aquanaut looks killer in blue. Almost instantly makes the 5167 look dated. 5168 comes off in pictures as really crisp. And I have a feeling the Advanced Research version looks amazing in hand. Reminds me of our initial reaction to the 40th anniversary Nautilus, then the incomings started, and a lot of opinions changed. The video martinr posted kind of shows its brilliance towards the end.

Screen grab

[incontrol]

I tried to get the Aquanaut 5650G reserved with my AD but they are saying they probably would not get one. I really like my 5164 and thought this could be a perfect upgrade. This one will be tough to get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kneedeep]

Well presented, Thomas, thanks for sharing your thoughts. The one surprise is I'm warming up to the 5320G for the change on this reference to the cream dial and away from the more usual PC subdials and hands of recent PCs. I wish it were 37-39mm though.

[KarlS]

I do agree with much what you said and Jon Jon
A). I am a big WT fan and eargerly awaited the P. I am a little disappointed. I think I prefer the globe in the R and may be tempted to rethink whether the P is the right one for me! As for the bracelet??? Eeeeeeeeewwww...first I would do us Raje ur off. As for the weight urs 10 GM lighter than my 5711P and I wear that easily...as for the bracelet for profit?? None sense...they could have launched the watch on strap at $100000 and tvevwsit list will still be a decade!!!
B). The 5960 I always dislike mainly due to the bracelet. This is a huge improvement and as the haters do t think the 5524 sells very well - a good use for all those spare straps!!
C). 5170 P gorgeous and yes breguet would gave me pulling out credit. AED
D). 5168G is proof that PP followed will never be satisfied irrespective of who is in charge. Many non owners would like a larger watch. We saw this with 5524 and now this...colour gorgeous...will fly out the doors...next year a 40mm?
E). Advanced Research I loved. Now having second thoughts on "Jaws"! Will be application piece in YK and can't speak for anywhere else...I may not apply
F). As for the perpetual...thus caters for thus who sit nostalgically in front if the fire with the wet spaniel thinking of the good old days of Patek!! I look forward and thyscwatch does zilch for me. 5327 blue still beats it

[subtona]

Well done Thomas.
Agree with you across the board.

[mps354]

Great write up! If the 5650g did not have the cutout I'd be begging my AD to try and get me one, and my current 5164 would be on its way out.

[dom007]

Excellent summary Thomas!

However, I'm really happy, they just released my exit watch and I can't stop to dream...

The 5372 is just perfect!
All these complications with a case diameter of just 38.3 mm and the piece is still so slim... Incredible!

Movement, Case, Dial everything impeccable!
Never thought they can produce such a perfect piece.

This is real craftsmanship!

[Andad]

I still don't consider the 5372 perfect when Patek chopped the numbers with the sub-dials when all they had to do was make two sub-dials a little smaller.

[KarlS]

@Eric that picture makes me think exactly of the 40th! Initial revulsion turns to damn wish I had bought that!!

[dom007]

Originally Posted by directioneng

I still don't consider the 5372 perfect when Patek chopped the numbers with the sub-dials when all they had to do was make two sub-dials a little smaller.

Not really.
If Patek would have done the sub-dials smaller, then the windows would interrupt completely the graduation of the sub-dials. And this would definitely be flaw.

[dkmursalim]

perfect analysis

[cervantes]

Great thoughts...

[cervantes]

Strange that Patek seems to be enlarging many of their watches these days. 5905 42mm replaces the 40.5 5960. The anniversary nautilus chrono. The new 42mm blue aquanaut. The 5327 and 5320 Perpetuals. The 42mm pilot's watch.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

I thought I'd share my views. Please take with a grain of salt and please chime in one way or another.

1. 5131P – The highly anticipated worldtimer to complete the foursome of the collectible enamel worldtimers. I like the idea of the map layout, but will all the white/snow on the dial affect the contrast with the hands making it less legible? I think I prefer the R and the J that have a certain warmth. And why did Patek have to go with a bracelet? I saw online that this will now weigh close to half a pound! Totally unnecessary….
Attachment 841368

2. 5960G – While the watch looks more appealing than the silver dialed steel counterpart, this is a very strange move that may hurt the value of the 5960P with blue dial which was rarer than the grey dialed 5960P. Patek probably could care less, but a nod to your loyal collector base would be nice by not reissuing essentially the same dial in a white gold case. Now that we are on topic, a few big collectors are quite upset that Patek has now made the 5271 with rubies, etc. regular productions watches…. Looks like Thierry ignores and disregards the collector market.
Attachment 841369

3. 5168G – Although attractive why is this 2mm bigger than the steel aquanaut? It is not OK to just throw the same movement into a slightly bigger case by the way. In particular when your competitor (looking at you Lange) are redesigning entire movements to fit bigger watches.
Attachment 841370

4. 5170P – Quite attractive. My gripe is primarily with the baguette diamonds on the dial which look huge and just completely unnecessary. Why is Patek putting diamonds on so many of their men’s watches (looking at you anniversary Nautilus)? Who is this catering to? There are a good chunk of collector’s out there (myself included) who would like to see the “new” Patek come up with more traditional and “toned down” / classic watches as Philippe Stern once did.

By the way, if the price of this one really is under $100k, that is good to hear and maybe a recognition of the fact that the 5170s have been overpriced at $80k.
Attachment 841371

5. 6006G – Looks great, but again, why is the case being blown up? The 6000G was 37mm

Attachment 841372

6. 5320 – No, no, no. I get that everyone wants to do heritage looking watches in today’s market where vintage is king, but a perpetual calendar should not be 40mm, and the materials (including the dial) should not be made to look “vintage” (also looking at you Omega Trilogy).
Attachment 841373

7. 5650G Advanced Research – Seriously? I thought the CEO of Zenith got kicked out for creating watches with parts of the dial cut out….

Attachment 841376

I will give it time to see if I come around to any of these or find anything from the Thierry-era for that matter with staying power in my collection, but for now, not very excited to say the least.

I have to ask myself, will we begin to see a clear distinction in both collectability, value retention and other important considerations between the pre-Thierry Stern era Pateks and the post-Thierry productions? Maybe I’m a watch nerd and the average Patek buyer doesn't care about most of what I said above….

That’s all. Thanks for reading and please chime in.

quite often you complain that the size became bigger

I would say . FINALLY !!!!!!!!
I really don't like all those girlie watches :-)
40mm is a great size to start .
40 till 42 for a classic watch and sports watches can go up to 47 mm (nothing wrong with a 47mm Panerai ) :-)