Having problem with a purchase - what should I do?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by andynj

Thanks - this seems to have got things moving. He asked me if he should join in but I said to stay out for now. Thanks again everyone.

Did he say how he resolved the customs hold?

[cda555]

The vagueness of this thread is frustrating.

[offrdmania]

The seller wants to enter the thread and defend himself but the buyer doesnt want him to. Is the buyer hiding something now?

[77T]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The seller wants to enter the thread and defend himself but the buyer doesnt want him to. Is the buyer hiding something now?

I don't know if asking to join the discussion = a desire...
As screwy as this topic has gone, if I were unnamed, I'd stay that way...especially as we are in the WatchOut!!! pew of the Church of TRF. A seller never wants to be dragged into that pew IMHO.

Originally Posted by andynj

Thanks - this seems to have got things moving. He asked me if he should join in but I said to stay out for now. Thanks again everyone.

Got things moving? You reported he was struggling with Customs - did this thread get him the envelope from Customs?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The seller wants to enter the thread and defend himself but the buyer doesnt want him to. Is the buyer hiding something now?

OP says the seller asked if he should, not if he could, enter the thread.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

OP says the seller asked if he should, not if he could, enter the thread.

Ahhhhh

[andynj]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The seller wants to enter the thread and defend himself but the buyer doesnt want him to. Is the buyer hiding something now?

Why would I be hiding something ? The issue is not resolved but now I am confident that the seller is doing something about it. He sent me proof that the package was being held at customs and copies of e mails that he is sending to his broker / rep asking to expedite and complaining that it is taking so long .

[andynj]

Originally Posted by 77T

I don't know if asking to join the discussion = a desire...
As screwy as this topic has gone, if I were unnamed, I'd stay that way...especially as we are in the WatchOut!!! pew of the Church of TRF. A seller never wants to be dragged into that pew IMHO.




Got things moving? You reported he was struggling with Customs - did this thread get him the envelope from Customs?

The issue is not resolved but now I am confident that the seller is doing something about it. He sent me proof that the package was being held at customs and copies of e mails that he is sending to his broker / rep asking to expedite and complaining that it is taking so long .

[77T]

Originally Posted by andynj

He sent me proof that the package was being held at customs and copies of e mails that he is sending to his broker / rep asking to expedite and complaining that it is taking so long .

Good deal - let us know when it's resolved

[andynj]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

OP says the seller asked if he should, not if he could, enter the thread.

Thanks Adam - prior to this chain I was inquiring weekly what was going on and just getting a reply "stuck in customs" which after 7 weeks was frustrating and starting to make me wonder if something was not as it seemed. Since the thread he has sent me proof and copies of emails he has started sending to his rep/broker. Hopefully he just needed a gentle reminder that the sale doesn't end when you get your money.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by andynj

Thanks Adam - prior to this chain I was inquiring weekly what was going on and just getting a reply "stuck in customs" which after 7 weeks was frustrating and starting to make me wonder if something was not as it seemed. Since the thread he has sent me proof and copies of emails he has started sending to his rep/broker. Hopefully he just needed a gentle reminder that the sale doesn't end when you get your money.

I still say name the seller as this is not good business practice.

[77T]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I still say name the seller as this is not good business practice.

For now, I can see the OP's position as in a quote from a favorite movie...

"That's an attitude, sir, that calls for the most delicate judgment on both sides. Because as you know, sir, in the heat of action, men are likely to forget where their best interests lie and let their emotions carry them away."

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by andynj

Thanks Adam - prior to this chain I was inquiring weekly what was going on and just getting a reply "stuck in customs" which after 7 weeks was frustrating and starting to make me wonder if something was not as it seemed. Since the thread he has sent me proof and copies of emails he has started sending to his rep/broker. Hopefully he just needed a gentle reminder that the sale doesn't end when you get your money.

I'm still fuzzy about a document on hold at customs. What kind of proof would there be that your document is in customs and not some other item?

We all know that problems may arise in a sale, it's the sellers response to the problem that defines his character. This seller hasn't been particularly attentive post sale, when there was a problem that should have been resolved pre-sale. I would like to know who the seller is so that I could be well informed if I were to consider purchasing a watch from him. The fact that you raised this concern, yet protect the seller is a bit perplexing.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I'm still fuzzy about a document on hold at customs. What kind of proof would there be that your document is in customs and not some other item?

We all know that problems may arise in a sale, it's the sellers response to the problem that defines his character. This seller hasn't been particularly attentive post sale, when there was a problem that should have been resolved pre-sale. I would like to know who the seller is so that I could be well informed if I were to consider purchasing a watch from him. The fact that you raised this concern, yet protect the seller is a bit perplexing.

Not perplexing at all. The OP's interests take priority over your curiosity at this stage. Simple as that.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Not perplexing at all. The OP's interests take priority over your curiosity at this stage. Simple as that.

Then who is supposed to be watching out in the Watchout forum? The OP raises red flags about a seller, then bails without naming the seller. Are the rest of us supposed to find out the hard way that the seller isn't up to snuff?

[blue16613]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Then who is supposed to be watching out in the Watchout forum? The OP raises red flags about a seller, then bails without naming the seller. Are the rest of us supposed to find out the hard way that the seller isn't up to snuff?

Apparently.........
In the words of the late, great Yogi Berra, "It's like déjà vu all over again."

[Chewbacca]

fwiw, its up to the OP, seller and Mods to make a call on this one; and i believe its been handled well within the spirit of the WO section.

while its fair to ask who the seller is (even i was curious mainly due to the fact that the TS term is overly used imop), it doesn't mean it'll come. but its also not hard to find out who the seller is with the info the OP has already offered.

as long as everyone's happy, that's all that matters.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The OP's interests take priority over your curiosity at this stage. Simple as that.

Certainly agree Adam. OP asked for advice and was upfront that he didn't want to name a seller who may have have been hurt by a snafu not of his making.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Then who is supposed to be watching out in the Watchout forum? The OP raises red flags about a seller, then bails without naming the seller. Are the rest of us supposed to find out the hard way that the seller isn't up to snuff?

Isn't WatchOut!!! designed for fakes?
... and Who's Who for seller issues?

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by 77T

Isn't WatchOut!!! designed for fakes?
... and Who's Who for seller issues?

Whatchout is for all watch buying and trading issues.

[77T]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Whatchout is for all watch buying and trading issues.

ok



What chout is it?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

Certainly agree Adam. OP asked for advice and was upfront that he didn't want to name a seller who may have have been hurt by a snafu not of his making.

Disagree Paul. This snafu was entirely of the seller's making. He sold a watch with an incomplete warranty booklet. He should have identified and corrected that issue prior to offering the watch for sale. Once the buyer notified him, correcting the issue should have been a priority.

[andynj]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

fwiw, its up to the OP, seller and Mods to make a call on this one; and i believe its been handled well within the spirit of the WO section.

while its fair to ask who the seller is (even i was curious mainly due to the fact that the TS term is overly used imop), it doesn't mean it'll come. but its also not hard to find out who the seller is with the info the OP has already offered.

as long as everyone's happy, that's all that matters.

I can't find where I used the term "Trusted Seller" - I'm pretty sure I have been saying "regular seller with good feedback". If that's not the case I apologize.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by andynj

I can't find where I used the term "Trusted Seller" - I'm pretty sure I have been saying "regular seller with good feedback". If that's not the case I apologize.

My mistake, I used the term TS whereas you said regular seller.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Disagree Paul. This snafu was entirely of the seller's making. He sold a watch with an incomplete warranty booklet. He should have identified and corrected that issue prior to offering the watch for sale. Once the buyer notified him, correcting the issue should have been a priority.

Ok see your points. I was just referring to the Customs issue. But I agree seller should have put right info on the papers, and dealt with comm better than OP has described.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blue16613]

Originally Posted by MonBK

My mistake, I used the term TS whereas you said regular seller.

Guys, I'm not trying to "flame" anyone and, especially, not Mon who is one of this place's really good guys, but this "trusted seller" stuff is ridiculous.

Now, apparently, we have regular sellers and trusted sellers?

We use the term "trusted seller" like it is some sort of certification or honor bestowed upon someone and then speak of them in God like reverence when we refer to them. Further, if someone (even gently) tries to criticize them, they get, quite literally, shut down. We all know this is true.

I have no problem with someone selling watches in new, gently used or worn condition. Nor do I have a problem with their claiming their watches carry a warranty as long as they are willing to stand behind it if someone (i.e. Rolex) fails to honor it.

But I think we have to either create some data or qualification driven criteria for being called a "trusted seller" or just revert to plain old "seller" and leave it at that.........

I propose that the regular seller we tend to refer to as "trusted sellers" all get together and create some definition, criteria, etc and allow us to move into a more data / evidence / qualifications driven means of certification. Or, if they are not willing, then someone (like me, if you wish...I'm willing to do it) leads the process.

It's time.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by blue16613

Guys, I'm not trying to "flame" anyone and, especially, not Mon who is one of this place's really good guys, but this "trusted seller" stuff is ridiculous.

Now, apparently, we have regular sellers and trusted sellers?

We use the term "trusted seller" like it is some sort of certification or honor bestowed upon someone and then speak of them in God like reverence when we refer to them. Further, if someone (even gently) tries to criticize them, they get, quite literally, shut down. We all know this is true.

I have no problem with someone selling watches in new, gently used or worn condition. Nor do I have a problem with their claiming their watches carry a warranty as long as they are willing to stand behind it if someone (i.e. Rolex) fails to honor it.

But I think we have to either create some data or qualification driven criteria for being called a "trusted seller" or just revert to plain old "seller" and leave it at that.........

I propose that the regular seller we tend to refer to as "trusted sellers" all get together and create some definition, criteria, etc and allow us to move into a more data / evidence / qualifications driven means of certification. Or, if they are not willing, then someone (like me) leads the process.

It's time.

Nice thoughts, but officially TRF will take no stand on any sale, or sale process. Too many liability issues, too much opportunity for hate and discontent. It's just not workable for the forum to do so.

The only trusted seller is an AD, BTW. All the rest can go bad and there will be no recourse to resolve a bad sale. This forum is a good place to track indications of a potentially bad seller, but only if the seller is named in the thread.

[blue16613]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Nice thoughts, but officially TRF will take no stand on any sale, or sale process. Too many liability issues, too much opportunity for hate and discontent. It's just not workable for the forum to do so.

The only trusted seller is an AD, BTW. All the rest can go bad and there will be no recourse to resolve a bad sale. This forum is a good place to track indications of a potentially bad seller, but only if the seller is named in the thread.

Thank you. This is wise, well stated and, of course all true.

If we could create a prominent "sticky" stating exactly what you have said in your second paragraph, and live by it, my personal opinion is we would make a huge improvement to this already great Forum.

Thanks again!

[forgedblades]

We all read on here advice of "buy the seller" I agree with this and although no one wants to throw mud on someone underserving of it, sellers are defined by the way they address, and handle situations that arise. There is a lot of money most times changing hand between complete strangers. Many times there are buyers that demand,expect too much of people but again we come back to the amount of money changing hands between to strangers for the most part.
No matter what, I would expect the seller to explain the delay in response to the OP or simply tell us he/she was a nut. If someone where to call my tactics/methods/or handling of an issue into question, there is no should, I would enter the thread and explain myself very quickly! If the seller is on our "trusted" list then he/she would have to explain this situation and show resolution one way or the other before they would be allowed to sell again.
Just my opinion after reading this thread.

[77T]

Originally Posted by blue16613

Guys, I'm not trying to "flame" anyone and, especially, not Mon who is one of this place's really good guys, but this "trusted seller" stuff is ridiculous.

Now, apparently, we have regular sellers and trusted sellers?

Well as you spend more time here you'll see almost all of that can be learned with experience...not necessarily Mon...but the rest becomes easier...

So as said earlier, policywise TRF isn't going to vet and rate sellers. Sometimes I wish they would do that for buyers

But you can do some research and see we have all sorts of categories that aren't defined but somewhat data-driven.

1. For example, research the last 10 giveaways the TRF has held - you'll see certain sellers repeatedly sponsor the watch that is top prize. I'd call them long-standing, very trusted sellers with deep references here. Some have been here many, many years. They have a generous return policy and go the extra mile to satisfy their buyers.

2. Then you can wander over to Who's Who and do a search on any seller's name you might be planning to buy from. Sometimes they have 50, 100, or even more positive references. They have impeccable references but may have only been selling here for a few years. Don't you think that warrants a trusted seller label? And they often have a protective return policy if anything proves to be amiss vs. the description.

3. Next we have new sellers on TRF that have great feedback on some other sire: Chrono24, WUS or other site - maybe even a 100% rating on eBay. So they have a track record elsewhere but no skin in the game here. If they did a bad deal, they may just bolt. You pick 'em a label - I'd prolly shy away unless doing a face-to-face.

4. Last we have long-time members who rarely sell anything but they do have a decent reputation here. So they are like a newbie in the seller ranks - and you might trust them - but you'd want to spend some quality time on the phone and in PM's drafting the deal. That's not distrustful - just being sure both sides are mindful of expectations and make no assumptions. Oftentimes there's no return policy to fall back upon.

But...there are always exceptions to consider. Like in selling vintage pieces, or going rogue, or true disasters...that's a risk you can't mitigate in advance. The question will always be, "Is the money saved worth that ~2% risk?" (My estimate for a trusted seller falling down for any reason)

Hope that helps, still it's just my