How's this for an unpolished 666 SD?

[Clay]

I have had many a 666 and 16600 Sea Dweller...
They all seem to have had the HEV set at different levels, relative to the outside of the case...
I have yet to get a concrete answer as to why that is...
I wouldn't worry about it...Just have it looked at...
For what it's worth, The gentleman you purchased the watch from (I know who it is as he offered me that watch) is a stand up guy, so even if there's a problem he will do the right thing...
No worries...

[Doctorsti]

Got it on hand





The valve is certainly sunken but I don't think its quite as bad as the shadow on it in the other pics makes it look. The dial is spidered but really not bad. The coronet on the clasp is superb, perfect and very obviously very little worn. Besides the valve I'm guessing this watch was worn 6-12 months max. Nuts for 31 years.

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by Clay

I have had many a 666 and 16600 Sea Dweller...
They all seem to have had the HEV set at different levels, relative to the outside of the case...
I have yet to get a concrete answer as to why that is...
I wouldn't worry about it...Just have it looked at...
For what it's worth, The gentleman you purchased the watch from (I know who it is as he offered me that watch) is a stand up guy, so even if there's a problem he will do the right thing...
No worries...

Yeah I read about how you turned this one down due to the dial. Was there anything else that concerned you? Was it just the dial? There is some serious hate for the gloss dial in the 16660. I was surprised by how many people write off the cracking in the enamel as broken and junk. I think it adds some interesting patina and I overall prefer gloss dials and metal surrounds.

I was planning on replacing my DSSD I sold but figured I needed to see what all the hype with the SD was all about. This one was the best condition triple6 I've seen from pictures at least and its sharp lines. It's also my wife's birth year so that was nice. We'll see, ill get it looked at, see how it runs and feels on the wrist for awhile and then decide to either keep it and cont saving for DSSD or flip for it.

[marcello pisani]

can you please tell us the 2 first digits of the case number ??
( such as 7.5XX.XXX or 8.3XX.XXX )
thanks !

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

can you please tell us the 2 first digits of the case number ??
( such as 7.5XX.XXX or 8.3XX.XXX )
thanks !

7.47mil, dates the case to 82 a year or two early for the gloss dial it seems but then again I have only been researching it for a few days.


On another funny note I called a local watchmaker/watch repair shop inquiring if they could do a "dry" vacuum pressure test on a watch. First person said nope but I will get someone who can help you. Next up said only way to pressure test is to first replace all the gaskets and the Rolex has 4 in the triplock plus the one in the caseback. I reminded him it also had a helium valve and that seems to be visually a concern. Apparently Rolex won't sell him parts because he said the only way to replace that gasket is RSC itself. He said, "don't worry about it, even at 30 years old those things are so tight I wouldn't worry about anything but the pressures of scuba, don't worry about swimming, showers or washing your hands."

The local AD doesn't do a single thing on site, sends everything to their home base in North Carolina or something unless it's complicated/Rolex and it goes to Lititz. Looks like my SD is going to go visit Lititz.

Now that I've had it a few hours, heres the news. It had a jammed/corroded spring bar end into one of the lung holes. A drop of Kroil and 5 hours later it was freed up with a watch pin pusher and a jewelers hammer, tap.. tap... sproing... Perfect. The problem however was on the other side where the spring bar end still compressed but has been pretty much 2/3rds sheered off. So there's that! It's a spring bar no biggie. Spring bar ends are nearly identical to Seiko Spring bars so I have two of those in right now with a Nato. Ran the bracelet through the ultrasonic cleaner and some Varaet watch cleaner and it's good as new. Water was dirty but far less then I expected having cleaned other pre-owned watches that were half this old. Practically no stretch on the bracelet, maybe none at all really, it's that horizontal when tested.

For those that know this comes as no surprise, while I've worn DSSD, 16610, and 116610 this feels more substantial and beefy compared to the 16610, more elegant then the 116610, and just not a BEAST like the 116660. It's the perfect size. I love lume so I'm obviously out of luck here unless I get a service dial in it... which I'm not but I also love a nice glidelock and I DO have a spare one of those, is that a complete violation to swap out the old tin can clasp for a glidelock?

[Clay]

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

7.47mil, dates the case to 82 a year or two early for the gloss dial it seems but then again I have only been researching it for a few days.


On another funny note I called a local watchmaker/watch repair shop inquiring if they could do a "dry" vacuum pressure test on a watch. First person said nope but I will get someone who can help you. Next up said only way to pressure test is to first replace all the gaskets and the Rolex has 4 in the triplock plus the one in the caseback. I reminded him it also had a helium valve and that seems to be visually a concern. Apparently Rolex won't sell him parts because he said the only way to replace that gasket is RSC itself. He said, "don't worry about it, even at 30 years old those things are so tight I wouldn't worry about anything but the pressures of scuba, don't worry about swimming, showers or washing your hands."

The local AD doesn't do a single thing on site, sends everything to their home base in North Carolina or something unless it's complicated/Rolex and it goes to Lititz. Looks like my SD is going to go visit Lititz.

Now that I've had it a few hours, heres the news. It had a jammed/corroded spring bar end into one of the lung holes. A drop of Kroil and 5 hours later it was freed up with a watch pin pusher and a jewelers hammer, tap.. tap... sproing... Perfect. The problem however was on the other side where the spring bar end still compressed but has been pretty much 2/3rds sheered off. So there's that! It's a spring bar no biggie. Spring bar ends are nearly identical to Seiko Spring bars so I have two of those in right now with a Nato. Ran the bracelet through the ultrasonic cleaner and some Varaet watch cleaner and it's good as new. Water was dirty but far less then I expected having cleaned other pre-owned watches that were half this old. Practically no stretch on the bracelet, maybe none at all really, it's that horizontal when tested.

For those that know this comes as no surprise, while I've worn DSSD, 16610, and 116610 this feels more substantial and beefy compared to the 16610, more elegant then the 116610, and just not a BEAST like the 116660. It's the perfect size. I love lume so I'm obviously out of luck here unless I get a service dial in it... which I'm not but I also love a nice glidelock and I DO have a spare one of those, is that a complete violation to swap out the old tin can clasp for a glidelock?

I don't think the Glide Lock will fit that watch...
I could be wrong, but that's what I've heard...???
And if you want the watch to "Glow", rather then a service dial, sell the 666 and buy a 16600...
MY K series 16600 Sea Dweller still glows like mad...
Regarding the Spring Bars...I have never heard anything like that before???
Here's my original, unpolished 7.4 Mil 666...

[GeoGio Greece]

Originally Posted by Clay

Here's my original, unpolished 7.4 Mil 666...

Is that a hint Clay ?

[Clay]

Originally Posted by GeoGio Greece

Is that a hint Clay ?

The common belief, for what that's worth, is that the Gloss dial did not appear, from the factory, on the 666 until the 8.5 mil range at the very earliest...

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by Clay

The common belief, for what that's worth, is that the Gloss dial did not appear, from the factory, on the 666 until the 8.5 mil range at the very earliest...

Would there be a purpose to replace a far more valuable dial with a gloss? Would the watch not have been far more valuable with matte? The only possible scenario would be to take take out matte dial to sell at $2k or so and then get a gloss for a few hundred to sell this watch at $6-7k or so. Maybe you net 8500 from the sale. Would a case and bracelet in this sharp condition not rivaled that amount? I guess foul play could be afoot or as can happen watch cases that were stamped and didn't quite get out the factory door maybe in storage or reserve got dialed and packed in late '83 or early '84?

I wouldn't think going through the trouble if fiddling with the watch to potentially break even or maybe make a couple hundred. Seller seems pretty stand up so I try to provide the benefit of the doubt.

[MP5]

Absolutely not! It makes the best, untouchable! I agree with you on every point, Congrats! I would just do a pressure test and leave it be till its time to go see ABC or BOB. Great watch and that valve doesnt look near as bad to me in the current pics

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

7.47mil, dates the case to 82 a year or two early for the gloss dial it seems but then again I have only been researching it for a few days.


On another funny note I called a local watchmaker/watch repair shop inquiring if they could do a "dry" vacuum pressure test on a watch. First person said nope but I will get someone who can help you. Next up said only way to pressure test is to first replace all the gaskets and the Rolex has 4 in the triplock plus the one in the caseback. I reminded him it also had a helium valve and that seems to be visually a concern. Apparently Rolex won't sell him parts because he said the only way to replace that gasket is RSC itself. He said, "don't worry about it, even at 30 years old those things are so tight I wouldn't worry about anything but the pressures of scuba, don't worry about swimming, showers or washing your hands."

The local AD doesn't do a single thing on site, sends everything to their home base in North Carolina or something unless it's complicated/Rolex and it goes to Lititz. Looks like my SD is going to go visit Lititz.

Now that I've had it a few hours, heres the news. It had a jammed/corroded spring bar end into one of the lung holes. A drop of Kroil and 5 hours later it was freed up with a watch pin pusher and a jewelers hammer, tap.. tap... sproing... Perfect. The problem however was on the other side where the spring bar end still compressed but has been pretty much 2/3rds sheered off. So there's that! It's a spring bar no biggie. Spring bar ends are nearly identical to Seiko Spring bars so I have two of those in right now with a Nato. Ran the bracelet through the ultrasonic cleaner and some Varaet watch cleaner and it's good as new. Water was dirty but far less then I expected having cleaned other pre-owned watches that were half this old. Practically no stretch on the bracelet, maybe none at all really, it's that horizontal when tested.

For those that know this comes as no surprise, while I've worn DSSD, 16610, and 116610 this feels more substantial and beefy compared to the 16610, more elegant then the 116610, and just not a BEAST like the 116660. It's the perfect size. I love lume so I'm obviously out of luck here unless I get a service dial in it... which I'm not but I also love a nice glidelock and I DO have a spare one of those, is that a complete violation to swap out the old tin can clasp for a glidelock?

[MP5]

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

Would there be a purpose to replace a far more valuable dial with a gloss? Would the watch not have been far more valuable with matte? The only possible scenario would be to take take out matte dial to sell at $2k or so and then get a gloss for a few hundred to sell this watch at $6-7k or so. Maybe you net 8500 from the sale. Would a case and bracelet in this sharp condition not rivaled that amount? I guess foul play could be afoot or as can happen watch cases that were stamped and didn't quite get out the factory door maybe in storage or reserve got dialed and packed in late '83 or early '84?

I wouldn't think going through the trouble if fiddling with the watch to potentially break even or maybe make a couple hundred. Seller seems pretty stand up so I try to provide the benefit of the doubt.

No, what usually happens is the watch goes to RSC and comes back with a service Swiss dial, New owner finds a cool "666" spider dial with some nice patina and throws it on. Happens a lot.

[Clay]

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

Would there be a purpose to replace a far more valuable dial with a gloss? Would the watch not have been far more valuable with matte? The only possible scenario would be to take take out matte dial to sell at $2k or so and then get a gloss for a few hundred to sell this watch at $6-7k or so. Maybe you net 8500 from the sale. Would a case and bracelet in this sharp condition not rivaled that amount? I guess foul play could be afoot or as can happen watch cases that were stamped and didn't quite get out the factory door maybe in storage or reserve got dialed and packed in late '83 or early '84?

I wouldn't think going through the trouble if fiddling with the watch to potentially break even or maybe make a couple hundred. Seller seems pretty stand up so I try to provide the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think there was any "Foul Play" at all......
I think what happened to this watch was what happened to the majority of Matt Dial 666's (And Red 1680's as well)
The dial was swapped out for a Gloss Dial by Rolex at some point during a service...(A White 1680 Dial for the Red Sub)
It's happened a million times...
Plain and simple...
That's one reason the Matt Dial 666, and the Red 1680 are so sought after...Their original dials were swapped out at a service...
Making watches with their original dials that much more rare and that much more valuable...
But that doesn't detract from the beauty of your 666...

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by MP5

No, what usually happens is the watch goes to RSC and comes back with a service Swiss dial, New owner finds a cool "666" spider dial with some nice patina and throws it on. Happens a lot.

In this case then RSC would have record of the service. I will focus on finding out of this serial case was serviced. Does Rolex divulge that type of info?

Are there any other year of production indicators like letter code on clasp, inside case back? There should also be some sign of RSC service inside the case back if it was done correct? Does the tech also etch in the year of service. That would help this "investigation." If I'm sending it to a reputable service person or RSC what would prevent me from cracking the caseback myself. I'm already treating it like Gremlin after midnight, nothing would change.

I guess this could be a RSC'd 666 and then spider dial put in to raise value a little but the way folks around here talk the service dial seems more desirable then the spider. Again I wouldn't think you are really making out in the deal to go through all that trouble.

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by Clay

I don't think there was any "Foul Play" at all......
I think what happened to this watch was what happened to the majority of Matt Dial 666's (And Red 1680's as well)
The dial was swapped out for a Gloss Dial by Rolex at some point during a service...(A White 1680 Dial for the Red Sub)
It's happened a million times...
Plain and simple...
That's one reason the Matt Dial 666, and the Red 1680 are so sought after...Their original dials were swapped out at a service...
Making watches with their original dials that much more rare and that much more valuable...
But that doesn't detract from the beauty of your 666...

Assuming it was a swap to gloss at RSC that would mean it was swapped before '89 right? Why would RSC swap a perfectly good dial on a 7 year old watch? If the case is in as good condition it is wouldn't it stand to reason the dial was also in decent shape? I'm going to post pics from between the lugs. The "inter lug" space as it were looks as new as if I pulled the bracelet off a 116610.

[Clay]

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

Assuming it was a swap to gloss at RSC that would mean it was swapped before '89 right? Why would RSC swap a perfectly good dial on a 7 year old watch? If the case is in as good condition it is wouldn't it stand to reason the dial was also in decent shape? I'm going to post pics from between the lugs. The "inter lug" space as it were looks as new as if I pulled the bracelet off a 116610.

Rolex's goal is to bring every watch that is sent in, up to current standards...
I have seen perfectly good Matt Dials (And some gloss as well) swapped out by Rolex because they no longer glowed or there were simply newer dials available...
Rolex cares not at all for "vintage" value...
But I wouldn't worry about it to much...
If you like the watch the way it is, that's all that really matters...

[cruvon]

Are we saying that the gloss dial shouldn't have been on a watch from this case range? If so did the seller state that before selling? This is akin to buying a red sub with a white sub dial, a huge loss in collectability unless can find a period correct dial, which will be expensive and very difficult to find.
Hope you paid the appropriate price for it OP.

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by cruvon

Are we saying that the gloss dial shouldn't have been on a watch from this case range? If so did the seller state that before selling? This is akin to buying a red sub with a white sub dial, a huge loss in collectability unless can find a period correct dial, which will be expensive and very difficult to find.
Hope you paid the appropriate price for it OP.

It looks like it's maybe 1-2 years too early for a gloss dial. Sounds like they started like 8.1 which makes it sometime in '83, likely later. This is 7.4 which places it '82 mid year or so if serials were pumped out in pretty strict sequential order... I have no idea if this is the case but if I had to guess I'd say they were not.

[greekbum]

IMHO only as you seem to be looking for answers. I do not believe that a spider dial started life in a 7 million serial case. 100% matte dial for me. The spider dial is a dial in the range for me of 8.23-8.4 early 8.5 based on personal accounts. There is a crossover in this same serial range with matte dials as in all transitional. Now the best place to get your answers is the seller. If he was the original owner he will have your answers if anything but this its an educated guess.At the end of the day if your happy its all that matters.

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by greekbum

IMHO only as you seem to be looking for answers. I do not believe that a spider dial started life in a 7 million serial case. 100% matte dial for me. The spider dial is a dial in the range for me of 8.23-8.4 early 8.5 based on personal accounts. There is a crossover in this same serial range with matte dials as in all transitional. Now the best place to get your answers is the seller. If he was the original owner he will have your answers if anything but this its an educated guess.At the end of the day if your happy its all that matters.

So that makes the start of gloss early '84 then I guess. Must be a replacement. We'll see if the seller has any other info.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by greekbum

IMHO only as you seem to be looking for answers. I do not believe that a spider dial started life in a 7 million serial case. 100% matte dial for me. The spider dial is a dial in the range for me of 8.23-8.4 early 8.5 based on personal accounts. There is a crossover in this same serial range with matte dials as in all transitional. Now the best place to get your answers is the seller. If he was the original owner he will have your answers if anything but this its an educated guess.At the end of the day if your happy its all that matters.

Cheers Nick, how easy and expensive is it for the OP to find a period correct matte dial since he reckons the case condition is unpolished? Know that approach can get quite complicated and stressful since he will then have to find matching lume hands too. Offcourse that's only worth it if he bought the watch at the right price in the first place.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by cruvon

Cheers Nick, how easy and expensive is it for the OP to find a period correct matte dial since he reckons the case condition is unpolished? Offcourse that approach can get quite complicated and stressful since he will then have to find matching lume hands too. Offcourse that's if he bought the watch at the right price in the first place.

Since you asked me IMHO it is very easy to find almost any Rolex or part if you are willing to pay the current price the market is asking. If you are not then it sometimes is not easy

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by cruvon

Cheers Nick, how easy and expensive is it for the OP to find a period correct matte dial since he reckons the case condition is unpolished? Know that approach can get quite complicated and stressful since he will then have to find matching lume hands too. Offcourse that's only worth it if he bought the watch at the right price in the first place.

From what I understand period correct printed dials go for $2K give or take.

I guess it would be a challenging grail hunt to find just the right dial and hands but I shudder to think the time that would be involved in this type of endeavor.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Since you asked me IMHO it is very easy to find almost any Rolex or part if you are willing to pay the current price the market is asking. If you are not then it sometimes is not easy

Thanks Nick. I guess a Catch 22 situation for the OP.

[Doctorsti]

Originally Posted by Clay

I appreciate the input.
I am looking at a piece that is stunning.
The matching patina on the hands and dial is to die for.
The pearl has aged and is gorgeous.
The case is the nicest I've seen and completely unpolished.
The only issue is that the dial is crazed.
It can only be seen from the side in certain light.
I'm not sure how I feel about it???
I have been told that there is no issue with the dial flaking but I have no first hand experience to go by.
It looks sooooooooooo nice though!!!

From another thread, As Clay states... it is soooo nice BUT....

funny how your opinion can change when the facts change, when I thought it was 100% original and unmolested I was in love but now slightly less so. BUT AGAIN the case/bracelet are sooooo nice.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Doctorsti

From what I understand period correct printed dials go for $2K give or take.

I guess it would be a challenging grail hunt to find just the right dial and hands but I shudder to think the time that would be involved in this type of endeavor.

True, though I would like to think it might be worth it, a part of me says that if it was a profitable fix maybe the seller would have found a dial and made a profit selling it as a period correct watch. Check with Nick(Greekbum) who's knowledgeable on these if he can help you find a dial if you want to go the dial change route (provided you dont also have any case valve thread issues too) but if it was me I would not fancy all the trouble and just look for an all correct example. With collectable vintages, dial correctness and condition comes first above all other attributes.

[MP5]

Yup Ive been after a dial for over 2 years, many have slipped through my hands though I did manage very nice hands, insert and DW. Another thing, the loose dials are expensive but and totally out of sync with the actual selling prices/desirability of the watch. Many very nice mattes sit unbought for a very long time which is ashame. To me they are unique, rare and an awesome blend of vintage with modern reliability. Maybe its kinda undiscovered?

[Doctorsti]

per the seller the watch came from a reputable collector who bought it from the original owner and it's never been serviced so far as they know

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

can you please tell us the 2 first digits of the case number ??
( such as 7.5XX.XXX or 8.3XX.XXX )
thanks !

Marcello, am guessing you can somehow differentiate between the matte and gloss period 666 without looking at the dial that made you curious first that it could be a matte period 666? Good catch!

[Clay]

I don't see what all the fuss is about???

If you don't mind the Crazed/Spider dial, then you have a really nice watch there...

The only person who can say for sure that the watch came with that Gloss Dial from the factory is the person who bought the watch NEW from the AD...
Anyone else is just speculating...Plain and simple...!!!

I don't know any collector or enthusiast who would believe that a 7.4 mill 666 came from the factory with a Gloss dial, but as with all things Rolex, anything is possible...

Regarding finding a Matching Matt Dial and Hand set for that watch...Not easy to find...They are out there, but expensive and few and far between...

But again, if Kevin likes the watch with that dial, what's the problem???

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Clay

I don't see what all the fuss is about???

If you don't mind the Crazed/Spider dial, then you have a really nice watch there...

The only person who can say for sure that the watch came with that Gloss Dial from the factory is the person who bought the watch NEW from the AD...
Anyone else is just speculating...Plain and simple...!!!

I don't know any collector or enthusiast who would believe that a 7.4 mill 666 came from the factory with a Gloss dial, but as with all things Rolex, anything is possible...

Regarding finding a Matching Matt Dial and Hand set for that watch...Not easy to find...They are out there, but expensive and few and far between...

But again, if Kevin likes the watch with that dial, what's the problem???

Hi Clay, I don't think Kevin is fussed about the dial being crazed, moreso that the dial is incorrect for his watch.

Similarly, I wouldn't buy a red sub with a white sub dial on the faint hope that anything is possible with Rolex, even if am assured by the first owner that it came that way. We do have quite a good idea about what's correct and what's not with vintage Rolex references now, thanks to the tireless work of researchers in the community even with Rolex themselves not being helpful with information. That's what keeps collectors interested, even if are minor things like fonts and dial configurations and unpolished cases which indirectly also translates to collectability and the money involved in attaining those proper examples.

Offcourse as you said, only Kevin can decide if he likes it or not based on the knowledge that he now has and if he likes it no one here for sure has a problem. It's his watch and money and the watch is still beautiful even if not collectible in its present configuration to some or most!