5513 from parts project

[MrChamfers]

I'm thinking putting together a 5513 sub from parts.
Has anyone here done this, or for a gmt master/other rolex?

I figure the cost of the case, caseback, movement, bezel, insert, hands would still be far less than buying a complete watch. Although a 5513 case and caseback are around $7000 currently.
The resale value would not be very comparable to an original watch, but I wouldn't sell it anyway.

[Mbalce]

Normally building anything that’s a one off will be more expensive than buying a built one. Even though you are supplying labor you have no economies of scale to be able to compete on parts costs.

That is true for watches, cars, motorcycles and guns. I have looked at all those.

Now - I have built my own of all of the above as well. Some from parts on someone else’s design, some my own or customized designs. The joy and satisfaction is immeasurable compared to buying the product of someone else’s work.

But that’s me.


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[Dan S]

Unless you just happen to already be sitting on most of the parts, it's probably not going to be cost-effective, but go ahead, let's see your parts list. There are several generations of 5513 to choose from, which are you considering?

[shiftf7]

Dial and case need to match, so that is the biggest challenge.
Because these parts are hard to find.
Another option is to buy a case and A 5513 service dial and handset To get started, and wait till you find a matching dial. The service dial can be sold afterwards without a big loss.
Movement and insert are relatively easy to find, or go for a service insert to start, till you find a correct insert.

[shiftf7]

There are some 5513’s for sale on chrono for around 7k, a 1971 with a service dial, could be a nice project watch to start using the parts from, that maybe is the smarter way to go instead of buying a case without movement.

[77T]

I know you’re intending to build from authentic parts but the only people I’ve seen building vintage Subs are the “Lookalike Losers” on Replica Forums.

Last year there was a famous case where the fakir hawked his wares here in a backhanded non-listing manner.

I’m sure it could be done and you’d have the pride of making the project happen.


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[mbc]

I can tell you from current experience that it depends on where the market for a particular model is -- for a little while now the 5513 market has been down (even pre-covid).

My view is that the parts market holds up better. I decided part out a 5513 that had a softer case that was holding it back and i expect that i will do much better than if i sold it whole. We'll see....if nothing else, will be an interesting experiment...

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by Mbalce

Normally building anything that’s a one off will be more expensive than buying a built one. Even though you are supplying labor you have no economies of scale to be able to compete on parts costs.

That is true for watches, cars, motorcycles and guns. I have looked at all those.

Now - I have built my own of all of the above as well. Some from parts on someone else’s design, some my own or customized designs. The joy and satisfaction is immeasurable compared to buying the product of someone else’s work.

But that’s me.


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That makes a lot of sense. There is the satisfaction of working on a project, so yeah that is a plus.
I was hoping to find vintage parts that might be at a discount due to not being in mint condition.

case plus caseback - $7500
movement - $3000
dial - $3000
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $3000
bracelet - $2000

not looking too good, lol.

[MrChamfers]

hm, maybe the parts market for a 1675 would make that project more cost effective.

[Mbalce]

Originally Posted by saltpeter

That makes a lot of sense. There is the satisfaction of working on a project, so yeah that is a plus.
I was hoping to find vintage parts that might be at a discount due to not being in mint condition.

case plus caseback - $7500
movement - $3000
dial - $3000
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $3000
bracelet - $2000

not looking too good, lol.

Don’t forget hands. They don’t come with anything listed. Plus tools if you are going to DYI. If you are planning on taking it to “your guy” better check with him first.

There will be a cost.

If it was me doing the build for you I would also want to service the movement before assembly. But you wouldn’t want me servicing your Rolex movement. Lol.


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[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by saltpeter

That makes a lot of sense. There is the satisfaction of working on a project, so yeah that is a plus.
I was hoping to find vintage parts that might be at a discount due to not being in mint condition.

case plus caseback - $7500
movement - $3000
dial - $3000
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $3000
bracelet - $2000

not looking too good, lol.

there is a reason that this doesn't happen more often and its pretty obviously once you do simple math.

glad you talked yourself out of it.

The only way it economically works is if bought a project watch, i.e., watch mostly whole, say 75% there and you source the final 25%. Depending on parts, you may come out on top but if you are doing it from scratch, no way.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

there is a reason that this doesn't happen more often and its pretty obviously once you do simple math.

glad you talked yourself out of it.

The only way it economically works is if bought a project watch, i.e., watch mostly whole, say 75% there and you source the final 25%. Depending on parts, you may come out on top but if you are doing it from scratch, no way.

for a 1675 though...
case plus caseback - $4500
movement - $1500
dial - $750
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $1000
bracelet - $1200
hands - $1000

closer, but no cigar

[circles]

Originally Posted by saltpeter

That makes a lot of sense. There is the satisfaction of working on a project, so yeah that is a plus.
I was hoping to find vintage parts that might be at a discount due to not being in mint condition.

case plus caseback - $7500
movement - $3000
dial - $3000
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $3000
bracelet - $2000

not looking too good, lol.

No way a movement costs $3k; no way.
Bracelet at $2k? You can beat that.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by circles

No way a movement costs $3k; no way.
Bracelet at $2k? You can beat that.

yeah, I agree...the price of the case might be the killer.

[zapokee]

No. It will be a moutain of hassle and will end up costing more than just buying one. And it probably won't be very good, so the resale value will suffer. Not to mention the opportunity cost of your time and effort.

There's a reason you buy donuts from Dunkin' rather than making them yourself.

[MrChamfers]

thanks for all the replies...still pondering a gmt master build.

[Kingsking]

Cool idea, i've wanted to do something similar for years now but always just end up buying complete watches lol.

What about putting together a sub but making it a custom 1 of a kind piece?, A member on this forum(forget his name) has done it with a few subs and got some very cool results.

[charlitos]

it will never be completely original. you will have a franken

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by charlitos

it will never be completely original. you will have a franken

I think a franken involves fake parts.

I'm pretty sure like 70 percent of vintage watches are frankens if you include putting period correct parts into / onto them as frankening....

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by saltpeter

for a 1675 though...
case plus caseback - $4500
movement - $1500
dial - $750
crown - $300
bezel/insert - $1000
bracelet - $1200
hands - $1000

closer, but no cigar

if you can sell me a 1575 GMT for 1500 I'll buy four.

[charlitos]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

I think a franken involves fake parts.

I'm pretty sure like 70 percent of vintage watches are frankens if you include putting period correct parts into / onto them as frankening....

For my franken watch it is a watch with original parts although they were not originally mounted on that watch.

It is true that in vintage many watches are with changed parts. So I buy from trusted people and try to keep track of the watch earlier.

In Spain that watch is a “acoplado” or “hecho con partes”. No for me


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[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by charlitos

For my franken watch it is a watch with original parts although they were not originally mounted on that watch.

It is true that in vintage many watches are with changed parts. So I buy from trusted people and try to keep track of the watch earlier.

In Spain that watch is a “acoplado” or “hecho con partes”. No for me


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That's fair enough - one or two owner watches with a known service history from 50 years ago would command the premium for sure!

[charlitos]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

That's fair enough - one or two owner watches with a known service history from 50 years ago would command the premium for sure!

My Red was bought like this. I bought a good friend. My friend bought a sale and he bought it from its old owner.



Service crown and plexi.


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[linesiders]

I did this once with a GMT, was never satisfied with it. So I parted back out.

Originally Posted by charlitos

For my franken watch it is a watch with original parts although they were not originally mounted on that watch.

It is true that in vintage many watches are with changed parts. So I buy from trusted people and try to keep track of the watch earlier.

In Spain that watch is a “acoplado” or “hecho con partes”. No for me


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And you pay a premium for that. On the other hand, an old sub - much like an old Porsche or Mustang - doesn't have to die, it can come back and be thoroughly enjoyed.

For me, a Franken is a mix of authentic and non-authentic parts made to fool others (including one's self).

[Dan S]

Everyone can have their own definition, but for me, this would definitely be a "frankenwatch"; actually it would be even less legit than a frankenwatch IMO. It's a total put-together.

I'm surprised by the people responding saying that a frankenwatch is a watch with inauthentic parts. That is a definition that I've never heard before. A watch with inauthentic parts is worse than a frankenwatch, but I don't have a specific name for it. "Fake" would be too strong. Semi-fake?

I have always considered a watch that has non-original parts from another watch swapped in to be a franken, especially if the intention was to deceive. I'm not talking about repairing the movement, but replacing the dial or case-back or bezel with a better one, etc. I guess there will be drift over time in what is considered acceptable by collectors, as truly original watches become harder to find, and obviously this is just semantics in the end. I also suspect that there is some self-interest in defining the term, since many members like to swap out parts, and don't want their watches to be labeled frankens. But if the shoe fits, wear it.

My impression is that in the high-end watch world, where each individual watch is known by collectors and followed from auction to auction over the years, if a dial is swapped out for a better one at some point, people recognize that it has been done, and it is not desirable. I guess we can make the case that Rolex sport watches, as mass-produced tool watches, are not in this category, and that swapping parts to make better examples is ok. But I think we should just own up to it, and admit that they are being frankenized regularly.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by charlitos

My Red was bought like this. I bought a good friend. My friend bought a sale and he bought it from its old owner.



Service crown and plexi.


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That's a very nice watch.

[tekno]

Buy a ratty one and restore it. This is my favorite watch.







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[athom]

Do you already have some parts ? If not do not do it because every part bought alone will cost more and the value of such a watch will be less...so you'll in any case pay more for something less valuable..

[JustinK]

I ran into a 64 sub with a refinished dial and sourced a service dial and hands. I am going to wear it as a daily beater.

Your best bet would be to source something like this and take your time finding a correct dial and color match a set of hands.

A matte dial range donor case would be easiest to source a dial for.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by athom

Do you already have some parts ? If not do not do it because every part bought alone will cost more and the value of such a watch will be less...so you'll in any case pay more for something less valuable..

hm, if I could somehow source parts for a 1675 pepsi, for say 7-8k, I would still be 1-2k below the lowest current pricing. The value isn't as important to me as looks and function.