Rolex date just losing time again

[carlyounguk]

Hi

I had a horrible experience with Rolex repairing my watch under warranty. Took it to the store in December, only got it back in April. Now just over a month later it’s losing time again. Tried winding and synchronising with a clock on my phone and monitoring for a week. It’s basically losing 18 seconds a day, which I believe is outside the normal for a mechanical watch.

I want to get it repaired but I also don’t want to be without my watch for 4 months to then get it back with it not being repaired! Any advice from anyone who has dealt with warranty/servicing is appreciated. I am in north east USA.

[Driver8]

Sorry to hear you're having problems - losing 18 secs a day is way too much consider Rolex guarantee +/-2 secs a day, so it's definitely a warranty job.

Just out of interested, what reference is your DJ? And when did you buy it? I'm guessing it's a DJ41?

[Mal H.]

Did the AD's watchmaker do the work or did they send it to Rolex? What part of the country are you in?

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by carlyounguk

Hi

I had a horrible experience with Rolex repairing my watch under warranty. Took it to the store in December, only got it back in April. Now just over a month later it’s losing time again. Tried winding and synchronising with a clock on my phone and monitoring for a week. It’s basically losing 18 seconds a day, which I believe is outside the normal for a mechanical watch.

I want to get it repaired but I also don’t want to be without my watch for 4 months to then get it back with it not being repaired! Any advice from anyone who has dealt with warranty/servicing is appreciated. I am in north east USA.

Originally Posted by Driver8

Sorry to hear you're having problems - losing 18 secs a day is way too much consider Rolex guarantee +/-2 secs a day, so it's definitely a warranty job.

Just out of interested, what reference is your DJ? And when did you buy it? I'm guessing it's a DJ41?

I'm curious as well as too what it is: whether newer or older DJ? I can recommend a great repair guy in Boston if you want; let me know back channel. Also, Long's in Bulington and now I believe their Boutique in Boston both have Rolex certified repair people. I believe they'll give you a much better turn around time then RSC. My experience with RSC hasn't been "Superlative." With my wife's Tudor it came back after a long delay and very expensive service ($1500) and a month later exhibited the same problem. They accused us of having dropped the watch which wasn't at all true. I think they don't give two cents about customer relations when they have to do extra work or they've screwed up. They did the repair but said no more work would be done on the watch. So much for their two year warranty. There are some good experiences which others have had but mine have been negative.

In a similar vein, my first OP was running 11 seconds off per day (I don't remember whether pus or minus). I sent it in and to months later got it back only off by 7 seconds per day. It cost me for the shipping ($75) and it really wasn't worth the expense of time.

Originally Posted by Mal H.

Did the AD's watchmaker do the work or did they send it to Rolex? What part of the country are you in?

It's mentioned in the post.Also, with a two month wait it has to be RSC.

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

...snip...


It's mentioned in the post.Also, with a two month wait it has to be RSC.

December to April is two months?

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Mal H.

December to April is two months?

Sorry, you're right, five months; definitely RSC. I was thinking about my two month wait 8 years ago.

[mountainjogger]

1. New or preowned?

2. Did AD service or RSC?

3. Have you given it a full wind?

[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum

What reference are we talking about here?

[1William]

More information on the watch please.

[saxo3]

Welcome here!
The watch reference number and first owner purchase date would be useful.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Driver8

....consider Rolex guarantee +/-2 secs a day...

Wondering my friend ;-)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Sorry to hear you're having problems - losing 18 secs a day is way too much consider Rolex guarantee +/-2 secs a day, so it's definitely a warranty job.

Just out of interested, what reference is your DJ? And when did you buy it? I'm guessing it's a DJ41?

Please show me anywhere that Rolex states they guarantee +/-2 seconds a day all they state it was tested to a PRECISION -2/+2 sec/day, after casing on a machine. It would be almost impossible to guarantee any purely mechanical watch to run exactly to +/-2 seconds every single day, far to many variables while on the wrist.

[amanbra]

OP please let us know which model. There is a known issue with 32XX movements and you might be part of this.


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[Gekota]

Originally Posted by padi56

Please show me anywhere that Rolex states they guarantee +/-2 seconds a day all they state it was tested to a PRECISION -2/+2 sec/day, after casing on a machine. It would be almost impossible to guarantee any purely mechanical watch to run exactly to +/-2 seconds every single day, far to many variables while on the wrist.

"The certification applies to the fully assembled watch, after casing the movement, guaranteeing superlative performance on the wrist in terms of precision, power reserve, waterproofness and selfwinding. The precision of a Rolex Superlative Chronometer after casing is of the order of −2/+2 seconds per day, or more than twice that required of an official chronometer. This precision is
tested by Rolex using an exclusive methodology that simulates the conditions in which a watch is actually worn and is much more representative of real-life experience. "


Source :

https://newsroom-content.rolex.com/-...er_english.pdf

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by padi56

Please show me anywhere that Rolex states they guarantee +/-2 seconds a day all they state it was tested to a PRECISION -2/+2 sec/day, after casing on a machine. It would be almost impossible to guarantee any purely mechanical watch to run exactly to +/-2 seconds every single day, far to many variables while on the wrist.

I am well aware that Rolex only state on their website, "Precision: -2/+2 sec/day, after casing", but it is also a fact that Rolex will regulate/fix a watch that deviates from that range during the 5 year guarantee period. That, in my opinion, is the definition of a guarantee. In other words if the watch doesn't perform as expected (be that the accuracy, the precision, the date change function, the clasp function, whatever), it will be fixed free of charge during the guarantee period.

So while I concede it is not explicitly stated, that is what happens, and when you combine that with Rolex's own wording around guarantee limitations...

"The Rolex guarantee excludes normal wear-and-tear (notably the wear-and-tear of non-metal bracelets and straps), loss, theft, or damage due to misuse. The substitution of components with, or the addition of, components or accessories not manufactured by Rolex will invalidate the guarantee". (from the Rolex website)

...and their own wording around their Superlative Chronometer rating (i.e. -2/+2 secs per day)...

"The green seal, A new standard of excellence. The five-year guarantee which applies to all Rolex models is coupled with the green seal, a symbol of its status as a Superlative Chronometer. This exclusive designation attests that the watch has successfully undergone a series of specific final controls by Rolex in its own laboratories according to its own criteria, in addition to the official COSC certification of its movement." (from the Rolex website)

...it is clear that not meeting their own level of stated precision is clearly covered by their guarantee. And we know this is what happens as countless people have had their watches regulated free of charge during the guarantee period.

The OP has stated his DJ is losing 18 seconds a day. By my maths that falls significantly outside of -2/+2 secs, but as his watch is within the 5 year guarantee period, Rolex will therefore address it free of charge as they have with countless watches before.

[Oxfordian]

Oh bother, here we go again, the debate about whether it is or it isn’t in spec.

OP just get hold of the AD where you bought the watch and ask them for advice, you’ll get no sense off this forum as half will say the watch should be no more than 2 seconds out whilst others will state that this applies only to a watch at casing.

If you’re not happy, go see the AD or get the watch to Rolex.

[carlyounguk]

Hi all thank you for all the responses.

It was purchased in April 2019 model number 126300

[carlyounguk]

The repair was made by the jewellers (Lenox in Fairfield CT). The hold up (12/20-4/22) on repair was them waiting on replacement parts from Rolex in Europe.

[carlyounguk]

Originally Posted by amanbra

OP please let us know which model. There is a known issue with 32XX movements and you might be part of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Model 126300, datejust 41mm

[77T]

Originally Posted by carlyounguk

Any advice from anyone who has dealt with warranty/servicing is appreciated. I am in north east USA.

Thus far you’ve seen plenty of opinions. Welcome to TRF and now you’ll see both sides of the Rolex equation. Performance vs. Service.

You will need to get it back into the RSC as the AD’s earlier work appears to have failed. RSC will set it straight - be sure to tell them the AD’s work wasn’t up to par. RSC failure would be unusual compared to the large number of repairs they do each year.

But do yourself a favor. Wind the watch fully each day for a week - wear it - and at the end of that week, measure its performance like you did before.

If it is within COSC, then you’ve narrowed it down to a bad autowind assembly, or your daily activity, may not be fully recharging the power reserve.


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[Harry-57]

If it's losing 18 seconds a day it's not working properly. Sounds like another 3235 issue but hard to tell for sure. If it's still under the original Rolex warranty it should go to a RSC. You might want to contact a RSC and speak to them directly before doing anything.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Driver8

I am well aware that Rolex only state on their website, "Precision: -2/+2 sec/day, after casing", but it is also a fact that Rolex will regulate/fix a watch that deviates from that range during the 5 year guarantee period. That, in my opinion, is the definition of a guarantee. In other words if the watch doesn't perform as expected (be that the accuracy, the precision, the date change function, the clasp function, whatever), it will be fixed free of charge during the guarantee period.

So while I concede it is not explicitly stated, that is what happens, and when you combine that with Rolex's own wording around guarantee limitations...

"The Rolex guarantee excludes normal wear-and-tear (notably the wear-and-tear of non-metal bracelets and straps), loss, theft, or damage due to misuse. The substitution of components with, or the addition of, components or accessories not manufactured by Rolex will invalidate the guarantee". (from the Rolex website)

...and their own wording around their Superlative Chronometer rating (i.e. -2/+2 secs per day)...

"The green seal, A new standard of excellence. The five-year guarantee which applies to all Rolex models is coupled with the green seal, a symbol of its status as a Superlative Chronometer. This exclusive designation attests that the watch has successfully undergone a series of specific final controls by Rolex in its own laboratories according to its own criteria, in addition to the official COSC certification of its movement." (from the Rolex website)

...it is clear that not meeting their own level of stated precision is clearly covered by their guarantee. And we know this is what happens as countless people have had their watches regulated free of charge during the guarantee period.

The OP has stated his DJ is losing 18 seconds a day. By my maths that falls significantly outside of -2/+2 secs, but as his watch is within the 5 year guarantee period, Rolex will therefore address it free of charge as they have with countless watches before.

Agree if the posters watch is loosing 18 seconds it needs regulation, but there is still no 100% guarantee that any Rolex will perform to +2-2 seconds every single day. And the term Superlative Chronometer is a Rolex trademark, and its been on all COSC tested Rolex dials for 40 plus years when they were tested to AVERAGE -4+6 seconds, or this new inhouse case test to Precision -2+2.

[Fred48]

Originally Posted by padi56

Please show me anywhere that Rolex states they guarantee +/-2 seconds a day all they state it was tested to a PRECISION -2/+2 sec/day, after casing on a machine. It would be almost impossible to guarantee any purely mechanical watch to run exactly to +/-2 seconds every single day, far to many variables while on the wrist.

Precision refers to repeatability. So, Padi, are you saying that, for example, a Rolex that has an average accuracy of 20 spd, but varies each day by 18 to 22 spd (+/- 2 spd), is within Rolex spec?

If so, that is certainly not what Rolex marketing is implying.

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by Fred48

Precision refers to repeatability. So, Padi, are you saying that, for example, a Rolex that has an average accuracy of 20 spd, but varies each day by 18 to 22 spd (+/- 2 spd), is within Rolex spec?

If so, that is certainly not what Rolex marketing is implying.

May be implying the +2/-2 precision, but Precision and accuracy are not the same. If a watch is loosing 18 seconds a day, every day, it's pretty precise. It's just not accurate.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by padi56

Agree if the posters watch is loosing 18 seconds it needs regulation, but there is still no 100% guarantee that any Rolex will perform to +2-2 seconds every single day. And the term Superlative Chronometer is a Rolex trademark, and its been on all COSC tested Rolex dials for 40 plus years when they were tested to AVERAGE -4+6 seconds, or this new inhouse case test to Precision -2+2.

But a guarantee doesn't mean that something will absolutely 100% perform in a certain way for ever, because I agree there is no way any company could do that. What it means is that if its performance falls short of what the company is defining as the baseline during the guarantee period, then they will fix it free of charge. -2/+2 is the stated precision baseline, so if it deviates from that, then Rolex regulate/fix it under the terms of the guarantee. They don't say, "It's -2/+2 secs after casing, but once it's out the door then precision could literally be anything, and if that happens then you're on your own as it's not our problem".

I know the term Superlative Chronometer has been used by Rolex for decades, but when they changed from red to green tags in 2015, that term was effectively "repurposed" to reflect the greater level of precision (-2/+2) that Rolex was able to offer as a result of a new movement technologies, such as the Parachrom hairspring. (The green tag also indicates a 5 year warranty as opposed to the previous 2).

Have Rolex really made such sweeping in-roads into precision? Maybe they have (and my post-2015 31xx watches will attest to that), or maybe they just don't want to be left in Omega's METAS-shadow... who knows. But the upshot is, that if a Rolex's precision deviates from -2/+2 during the guarantee period, Rolex will fix it free of charge. Hence guaranteed precision.

[saxo3]

Rolex SA specifies the movement precision of -2/+2 sec/day, not the accuracy often called 'timekeeping'.

A simple explanation (w/o math. formulas) of the difference between accuracy and precision is sketched below.



I have done systematic measurements to determine amplitudes, rates, and the precision of 32xx and 31xx calibers, for six watches along their entire power reserve.

The results are summarized and explained here:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1232

Everybody interested in such type of data, analysis, and discussions is cordially invited to join this thread:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=786299

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Driver8

But a guarantee doesn't mean that something will absolutely 100% perform in a certain way for ever, because I agree there is no way any company could do that. What it means is that if its performance falls short of what the company is defining as the baseline during the guarantee period, then they will fix it free of charge. -2/+2 is the stated precision baseline, so if it deviates from that, then Rolex regulate/fix it under the terms of the guarantee. They don't say, "It's -2/+2 secs after casing, but once it's out the door then precision could literally be anything, and if that happens then you're on your own as it's not our problem".

I know the term Superlative Chronometer has been used by Rolex for decades, but when they changed from red to green tags in 2015, that term was effectively "repurposed" to reflect the greater level of precision (-2/+2) that Rolex was able to offer as a result of a new movement technologies, such as the Parachrom hairspring. (The green tag also indicates a 5 year warranty as opposed to the previous 2).

Have Rolex really made such sweeping in-roads into precision? Maybe they have (and my post-2015 31xx watches will attest to that), or maybe they just don't want to be left in Omega's METAS-shadow... who knows. But the upshot is, that if a Rolex's precision deviates from -2/+2 during the guarantee period, Rolex will fix it free of charge. Hence guaranteed precision.

Look a plain and simple fact the first watch to have a Parachom hairspring was the cal 4130 in the Daytona way back in 2000, but then it was more of a grey colour, and not chemically changed now to blue. And many other movements had a parachrom hairspring that were still just COSC certified. Same for the possibly hundreds of watches produced with the old red plastic tag that were changed to the newer green tag indicating 5 year warranty but exactly the same movements that were just COSC tested. And the main reason that Rolex changed to the -2+2 spec plus 5 year warranty was simply this brands like Omega did, so Rolex had to follow.

[Mal H.]

Can you all stop stepping all over OPs thread?

[Mal H.]

Originally Posted by carlyounguk

The repair was made by the jewellers (Lenox in Fairfield CT). The hold up (12/20-4/22) on repair was them waiting on replacement parts from Rolex in Europe.

Send it to RSC yourself.

[alphadweller]

Sorry to hear, OP. Four months sounds unreasonable to me. RSC would normally quote 4 to 6 weeks. As already suggested, take it to the RSC yourself if you can.