Sotheby's Reneged on a Winning Rolex Bid

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

I have no idea, but perhaps they made a discovery about the watch that would prevent them from selling it. Stolen, unauthentic, inaccurately described, etc. Either way, you're certainly owed an explanation. No one has explained to you why you won't be able to collect the watch?

No explanation. They apologized, said it's not my fault, offered free shipping on my next item (lol...), but nothing about why they aren't honoring the sale.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

Did you even read his post? He clearly states "I would not be satisfied with a refund" Which means that he wants the watch.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by dhknola

I am pretty surprised by this and am paying attention.
I have heard of games at 'local' brick and mortar auction houses where they realize after a lot sells they 'messed up' and will renege on the sale, but not at Sotheby's level. I would think be Sotheby's/Christie's/Bonham's that they would have their ducks in a line.

Sotheby's/ Christies/Bonhams have been caught in shenanigans that dwarf this.
Not sure where you would get the impression they are completely above board.

[MILGAUSS88]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadridv View Post
I have no idea, but perhaps they made a discovery about the watch that would prevent them from selling it. Stolen, unauthentic, inaccurately described, etc. Either way, you're certainly owed an explanation. No one has explained to you why you won't be able to collect the watch?

That was my thought as well.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

No explanation. They apologized, said it's not my fault, offered free shipping on my next item (lol...), but nothing about why they aren't honoring the sale.

you care to post a link to the item? it would help.

[Jack T]

Are you actually going to let the opinions of unknown people on this website guide your actions?

The same website where people seem to know intimate details about Rolex's profit margins, AD agreements, production quotas and distribution plans?

Besides, they wouldn't have pulled the sale if they didn't know for certain that they could.

Good luck

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

No explanation. They apologized, said it's not my fault, offered free shipping on my next item (lol...), but nothing about why they aren't honoring the sale.

How much below current market pricing was the watch? I’d negotiate for waived buyer’s premium on your next watch purchase if that would make up the difference.

[duquephart]

Strange indeed. But, they have more lawyers than you so probably SOL.

[turkeysub93]

Hope you used plastic to pay for it lol

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by Jack T

Are you actually going to let the opinions of unknown people on this website guide your actions?

The same website where people seem to know intimate details about Rolex's profit margins, AD agreements, production quotas and distribution plans?

Besides, they wouldn't have pulled the sale if they didn't know for certain that they could.

Good luck

I'm hoping to hear if anyone has had a similar experience with an auction house or if anyone has a lawyer familiar with auction/contract law that they can recommend. Right now I'm just looking for more information.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by Jack T

Are you actually going to let the opinions of unknown people on this website guide your actions?

The same website where people seem to know intimate details about Rolex's profit margins, AD agreements, production quotas and distribution plans?

Besides, they wouldn't have pulled the sale if they didn't know for certain that they could.

Good luck

so your suggestion to OP is accept it and move on?

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I'm hoping to hear if anyone has had a similar experience with an auction house or if anyone has a lawyer familiar with auction/contract law that they can recommend. Right now I'm just looking for more information.

So far no one has indicated they have had a similar experience, despite the questions and free advice.

I'd look closely at all the documentation you have received from the auction house regarding the terms and conditions of your sale; you probably have your answer right there.

As for casting your net for a contract lawyer on the internet for a watch? I can think of better ways to obtain legal advice.

It's not that I don't sympathize with your predicament, I just don't believe this website is the place to find a solution, if there is one.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Jack T

So far no one has indicated they have had a similar experience, despite the questions and free advice.

I'd look closely at all the documentation you have received from the auction house regarding the terms and conditions of your sale; you probably have your answer right there.

As for casting your net for a contract lawyer on the internet for a watch? I can think of better ways to obtain legal advice.

It's not that I don't sympathize with your predicament, I just don't believe this website is the place to find a solution, if there is one.

I don't disagree but the same could be said for the majority of the conversations here on TRF. So should we just close down the site?

At the least this serves as an outlet for the OP to vent his frustrations with like minded enthusiasts. That alone can often help, even in the slightest.

And while i agree it's unlikely the OP will discover a solution, perhaps this might help others considering participating in future auctions.

[Tools]

Sotheby's is little more than a middle-man, and the on-line site is more e-bay action than a true auction.

If they sold it, they sold on behalf of the owner. They cannot make the seller give them the watch to give to you if that is what has happened.

Likewise, it is unlikely that you can force Sotheby's to give you something that doesn't really belong to them.

[cbalster]

I watched a Sotheby's auction live recently as I was interested in a few pieces. They encountered numerous technical difficulties in the phone and internet bidding, and were saying during the auction that numerous participants were complaining that their bids were not reaching Sotheby's. So what enters my mind reading this is that while you may have thought you won, there may actually have been a higher bid that you were unaware of that did not post to Sotheby's though it was submitted before the watch was sold.

In other words, it's possible they have sold your watch to a higher bidder they were made aware of. This is all speculation, but this was a strange auction given the technical difficulties and virtual nature of the live auction.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Tools

Sotheby's is little more than a middle-man, and the on-line site is more e-bay action than a true auction.

If they sold it, they sold on behalf of the owner. They cannot make the seller give them the watch to give to you if that is what has happened.

Likewise, it is unlikely that you can force Sotheby's to give you something that doesn't really belong to them.

I've never been on either end of a situation specifically like this, but I have sold watches at Sotheby's, both in person and online auctions. In my experience, there's never been a time that they didn't have the watch in their procession several weeks if not months prior to the auction. They inspect the watch, photograph it and hold until the auction.

So I'm not saying the buyer didn't, or couldn't back out (legally or not), but Sotheby's almost definitely had the watch in their procession if it went to bidding.

[Jack T]

.

[csaltphoto]

If they refunded the OP's money there really isn't much that can be done. There are no damages so nothing to recover.

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

I don't disagree but the same could be said for the majority of the conversations here on TRF. So should we just close down the site?

At the least this serves as an outlet for the OP to vent his frustrations with like minded enthusiasts. That alone can often help, even in the slightest.

And while i agree it's unlikely the OP will discover a solution, perhaps this might help others considering participating in future auctions.

I don't disagree with anything you say, this forum is a great place to surface issues issues among people who may have similar interests and experiences. But for someone who has transacted business with a global auction house to solicit legal advice (or recommendations for a competent attorney on such matters) on a website for watch doesn't make any sense to me.

We don't know the price of the watch, we don't know how all the auction house documentation reads. My guess is the auction house is within the rights as they have defined them; the buyer may be aggravated, he may feel he has been wronged, but he won't be out any money.

[AJMarcus]

Sounds like case close now that your money’s been refunded. There’s no financial loss just disappointment. Sorry about that OP. For all you know Sotheby’s pulled the auction because of something wrong about the watch and/or the seller. It happens. Consider yourself fortunate.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don't disagree with anything you say, this forum is a great place to surface issues issues among people who may have similar interests and experiences. But for someone who has transacted business with a global auction house to solicit legal advice (or recommendations for a competent attorney on such matters) on a website for watch doesn't make any sense to me. We don't know the price of the watch, we don't know how all the auction house documentation reads. My guess is the auction house is within the rights they have defined them; the buyer may be aggravated, he may feel he was wronged, but he won't be out any money.

Agreed

While some form of help may come from this thread, I agree actual legal advice is not likely.

[blada4life]

message all of this, with all your evidence to Paul Thorpe. Maybe he will publicize it. he has done that before and it appears to have worked.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Jack T

Besides, they wouldn't have pulled the sale if they didn't know for certain that they could.

Unfortunately, in those days, companies are doing all kind of things because they (assume that they) can!

[Nikrnic]

Originally Posted by blada4life

message all of this, with all your evidence to Paul Thorpe. Maybe he will publicize it. he has done that before and it appears to have worked.

X2...

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Gab27]

If nothing else, great communication on their part...

I wonder if they are this nonchalant when a buyer backs out of a winning bid of a watch that went way over market value...

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Sotheby's/ Christies/Bonhams have been caught in shenanigans that dwarf this.
Not sure where you would get the impression they are completely above board.

Exactly. Read: It has to be a lot bigger, with a lot more at stake, to risk the company's name and reputation.

[Crazy Lugs]

The fact that auction houses charge a 20-25% “buyer’s premium” tells you everything you need to know about how they do business. They’re worse than a shady corner used car lot that charges a $499 “doc fee” for no legitimate reason…of course IMHO.

[ThatSubGuy]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

If they refunded the OP's money there really isn't much that can be done. There are no damages so nothing to recover.

There are damages if he legally bought an item under market price that they then refuse to release to him.

They/seller could be liable for paying the difference between auction price and market price for a replacement.

If the auction was in line with market value, buyer suffered no damages from their breach of contract and can simply walk next door and buy a similar item, at similar cost.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Crazy Lugs

The fact that auction houses charge a 20-25% “buyer’s premium” tells you everything you need to know about how they do business.

[russ86]

It happened to me once, I purchased a watch from another auction house and after payment they didnt honor the sale. The worst part was that I wired the money to them and it took me a while to get my money back, it was a nightmare.