Offshore Is Now Broken, An Ongoing Debacle

[neal.jy]

Originally Posted by NB614

Ah, a Material Good joint venture boutique— makes me want to say a certain 4 letter word that is a noun, adjective, adverb, and verb. Now I understand why your post purchase experience has been so unfortunate.

I am extremely sorry that you must deal with a JV boutique. However, once your watch is at Clearwater, I believe you can just call them directly and speak to any representative who will update you about the watch. At least that was the case for me.

The Clearwater service center and its staff are simply fantastic. If something is truly wrong or defective with the watch, I’m sure they will do their best to fix it or report the issue to a higher up who can rectify the situation.

It is both unfortunate and surprising that your watch has had to go back and forth so many times, but I would send it to Clearwater so they can verify the problem does indeed exist and then just maintain contact with a representative at Clearwater. Forget about depending on your JV boutique, I can almost guarantee they will give you the run around or leave you in the dark.

Once the watch has been analyzed and they recognize there is a major issue with the movement, whoever you speak to at Clearwater should be able to guide you and most likely put you in touch with the right people.

In fairness, I’ve found it depends on a variety of factors - just because a boutique is a MG joint venture, that doesn’t automatically mean it will be subpar (and vice versa). For example, AP House NYC is a joint venture with MG - but the whole team there is absolutely fantastic to work with. The team at the actual MG boutique is a pleasure to work with as well. On the other hand, my experience with the AP NYC boutique on Madison Ave has been quite different.

Everyone’s individual experience will vary of course, just sharing my own personal experience!


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[jedione65]

Completely unacceptable experience to deliver a broken luxury product. They should have just replaced it immediately or if unable to give you a full refund.
I can tell you a whole story with a JLC I bought that was broken in first 2 weeks and they told me it needed a new movement. An entire debacle after which I ended up filing a credit care dispute and got my money back. The end solution, JLC is now blacklisted and I will never buy one of their watches again because of that experience.

[Halothane]

My opinion after purchasing a double digit number of watches from an AP boutique : AP (the company) is trash. They don't stand behind their product. I bought a 100k watch that broke the first time I wore it and all I got was a "sorry".

They promise and then don't deliver on future purchases. They have people with cosmetic and fashion backgrounds running the company now. I know significantly more about watches than the manager at the boutique where I was a client. The royal oak is a nice watch but the other stuff is awful.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by Halothane

My opinion after purchasing a double digit number of watches from an AP boutique : AP (the company) is trash. They don't stand behind their product. I bought a 100k watch that broke the first time I wore it and all I got was a "sorry".

They promise and then don't deliver on future purchases. They have people with cosmetic and fashion backgrounds running the company now. I know significantly more about watches than the manager at the boutique where I was a client. The royal oak is a nice watch but the other stuff is awful.

I have bought triple digit number of watches from an AP boutique...the company and service has been nothing but exemplary. I bought a 1,000K watch and never broke it.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I have bought triple digit number of watches from an AP boutique...the company and service has been nothing but exemplary. I bought a 1,000K watch and never broke it.

I bought every single watch AP has ever made AND even dug up Jules Audemars to have his bony fingers fix my watch strap since I only want the original founder to touch my watches...

Or in other news - back to dmash instead of a contest. Any new news? Any other feedback? Did someone give you a timeline on updates to be expected?

[Armis]

Originally Posted by neal.jy

In fairness, I’ve found it depends on a variety of factors - just because a boutique is a MG joint venture, that doesn’t automatically mean it will be subpar (and vice versa). For example, AP House NYC is a joint venture with MG - but the whole team there is absolutely fantastic to work with. The team at the actual MG boutique is a pleasure to work with as well. On the other hand, my experience with the AP NYC boutique on Madison Ave has been quite different.

Everyone’s individual experience will vary of course, just sharing my own personal experience!
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Agreed. The Boston boutique is also a MG joint venture, and that boutique staff is highly praised by clients. I don’t know how many other joint ventures there are with MG, but I can’t imagine dmash is having this experience with Boston…especially as they’ve been closed since the break in at the end of July.
Whichever boutique, I hope we hear news of a positive resolution since this type of unpleasant experience can happen to any of us.

That being said, I’m curious if Kevin Hart ever had a piece go bust :)

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by Armis

Agreed. The Boston boutique is also a MG joint venture, and that boutique staff is highly praised by clients. I don’t know how many other joint ventures there are with MG, but I can’t imagine dmash is having this experience with Boston…especially as they’ve been closed since the break in at the end of July.
Whichever boutique, I hope we hear news of a positive resolution since this type of unpleasant experience can happen to any of us.

That being said, I’m curious if Kevin Hart ever had a piece go bust :)

I also really love my MG joint venture in Aspen. I am sure everyone is just trying to do their best.

[neal.jy]

Originally Posted by Armis

Agreed. The Boston boutique is also a MG joint venture, and that boutique staff is highly praised by clients. I don’t know how many other joint ventures there are with MG, but I can’t imagine dmash is having this experience with Boston…especially as they’ve been closed since the break in at the end of July.
Whichever boutique, I hope we hear news of a positive resolution since this type of unpleasant experience can happen to any of us.

That being said, I’m curious if Kevin Hart ever had a piece go bust :)

Agree re: the positive resolution… fingers crossed!


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[dmash]

Only update is that Clearwater had my watch as of Wednesday (with whom I’ve explicitly stated not to do any repair, this is only a formality to confirm the watch is inoperable).

Also, still zero peep from my boutique manager.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by dmash

Only update is that Clearwater had my watch as of Wednesday (with whom I’ve explicitly stated not to do any repair, this is only a formality to confirm the watch is inoperable).

Also, still zero peep from my boutique manager.

Maybe he's working on allocating you a ceramic QP

Or more earnestly, you only spent in the mid 5-figures and therefore it's a shoulder shrug.

In other news, my ROO repair will last an entire 4 weeks and my watch will be ready "early October"...

[dmash]

Update. Confirmed via watchmaker that an entire screw completely broke loose rendering the watch inoperable. Internal, 100% not my fault in any way shape or form, just an oversight/catastrophic failure. Unbelievable this wasn’t caught previously..

Their solution at this point was that they want to replace the movement, which I have declined. Reason being twofold:

1- it’s a brand new timepiece and I would then have misaligned paperwork/a new movement as opposed to an entirely new timepiece. This doesn’t sit well with me whatsoever to replace a large serialized aspect of my purchase such as this when it’s had issues since almost the first week of ownership. As another tidbit, not that I would have any intention of reselling as this was legitimately the favorite watch of my collection, but perhaps in the future my tastes were to change, and this affects the value 100%.

2- even if the movement were to be replaced, this movement is *notorious* for issues as we all know. Who’s to say they don’t replace this movement and then in 3-4 weeks I have a repeat of the EXACT same problem so many others (and myself) experienced with the movement having subdial creep or running fast and it has to be sent back again. I’d say (being conservative) it’s a complete 50/50 chance this happens.

Quite frankly I can’t believe they thought this to be proper resolution. Just speechless. Client care manager has to get in touch with executives about what to do as I have firmly stated this is not acceptable and I want a fresh start with the brand as the only resolution. I’m failing to understand why this wasn’t already done, as I stated my stance from before sending the watch in to Clearwater in the first place.

The debacle continues on.

[dmash]

The only positive I have to report though is that boutique manager reached out to me a few days prior. There was a miscommunication about him being out of the office and he was very apologetic and understandable to my frustration. So at least he’s now in the loop and I don’t feel I’m getting ignored there.

[Gandor]

What's interesting is that this watch and the code chronos use the same movements, but I've only seen people talk about the ROOs issues

[Gandor]

Originally Posted by dmash

Update. Confirmed via watchmaker that an entire screw completely broke loose rendering the watch inoperable. Internal, 100% not my fault in any way shape or form, just an oversight/catastrophic failure. Unbelievable this wasn’t caught previously..

Their solution at this point was that they want to replace the movement, which I have declined. Reason being twofold:

1- it’s a brand new timepiece and I would then have misaligned paperwork/a new movement as opposed to an entirely new timepiece. This doesn’t sit well with me whatsoever to replace a large serialized aspect of my purchase such as this when it’s had issues since almost the first week of ownership. As another tidbit, not that I would have any intention of reselling as this was legitimately the favorite watch of my collection, but perhaps in the future my tastes were to change, and this affects the value 100%.

2- even if the movement were to be replaced, this movement is *notorious* for issues as we all know. Who’s to say they don’t replace this movement and then in 3-4 weeks I have a repeat of the EXACT same problem so many others (and myself) experienced with the movement having subdial creep or running fast and it has to be sent back again. I’d say (being conservative) it’s a complete 50/50 chance this happens.

Quite frankly I can’t believe they thought this to be proper resolution. Just speechless. Client care manager has to get in touch with executives about what to do as I have firmly stated this is not acceptable and I want a fresh start with the brand as the only resolution. I’m failing to understand why this wasn’t already done, as I stated my stance from before sending the watch in to Clearwater in the first place.

The debacle continues on.

Also AP taking a page out of the PRX handbook lol, that's actually crazy that they want to replace the whole movement.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by dmash

Update. Confirmed via watchmaker that an entire screw completely broke loose rendering the watch inoperable. Internal, 100% not my fault in any way shape or form, just an oversight/catastrophic failure. Unbelievable this wasn’t caught previously..

Their solution at this point was that they want to replace the movement, which I have declined. Reason being twofold:

1- it’s a brand new timepiece and I would then have misaligned paperwork/a new movement as opposed to an entirely new timepiece. This doesn’t sit well with me whatsoever to replace a large serialized aspect of my purchase such as this when it’s had issues since almost the first week of ownership. As another tidbit, not that I would have any intention of reselling as this was legitimately the favorite watch of my collection, but perhaps in the future my tastes were to change, and this affects the value 100%.

2- even if the movement were to be replaced, this movement is *notorious* for issues as we all know. Who’s to say they don’t replace this movement and then in 3-4 weeks I have a repeat of the EXACT same problem so many others (and myself) experienced with the movement having subdial creep or running fast and it has to be sent back again. I’d say (being conservative) it’s a complete 50/50 chance this happens.

Quite frankly I can’t believe they thought this to be proper resolution. Just speechless. Client care manager has to get in touch with executives about what to do as I have firmly stated this is not acceptable and I want a fresh start with the brand as the only resolution. I’m failing to understand why this wasn’t already done, as I stated my stance from before sending the watch in to Clearwater in the first place.

The debacle continues on.

Curious what resolution you are shooting for? Refund? New copy of the same model? Different model? I'm not sure if the "mismatched movement" argument isn't a bit spurious - is there actually a movement serial number that can be matched to the watch serial number without access to AP's internal info?

There are many different ways to play this - a huff and a puff and a grand exit from the brand on TRF, like some of our friends here, is one option. I think a more subtle/graceful approach could yield a working version of your watch (new movement, I don't think I'd care much) and an allocation of something nice in the near future.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Curious what resolution you are shooting for? Refund? New copy of the same model? Different model? I'm not sure if the "mismatched movement" argument isn't a bit spurious - is there actually a movement serial number that can be matched to the watch serial number without access to AP's internal info?

There are many different ways to play this - a huff and a puff and a grand exit from the brand on TRF, like some of our friends here, is one option. I think a more subtle/graceful approach could yield a working version of your watch (new movement, I don't think I'd care much) and an allocation of something nice in the near future.

This watch has incredible negative connotation to me at this point and I think would also be to anybody else. I don’t think a proper resolution is to *try* to fix an (obviously) broken timepiece. The fact still remains that I’ve now had a watch in hand for around 2-3 weeks whilst purchasing it FOUR months ago and being back at Clearwater a 3rd time. The watch needs to be taken back.

I don’t want an exit from the brand, I want the opposite. I want them to take this watch back and offer me a fresh allocation with a fresh start and a joyous future ahead for both parties. I don’t find this to be the least bit unreasonable considering the circumstances. I’m also not requesting some ridiculous thing such as ‘and the only allocation I’ll consider is an open work’, I’m simply asking for what was told would be my next allocation from the brand anyways. A natural stepping stone in my AP journey anyhow.

A ‘fix’ which may or may not last, with a promise of an allocation doesn’t do it for me. As that resolution could result in 1- the movement having the same issues as others and 2- them simply telling me to kick rocks and not honoring any allocation I’m promised.

I’m trying to be graceful/respectful and that’s exactly why I haven’t name dropped a single individual or even the boutique I’m working with. I’m allowing them plenty of opportunity to make this right. As again, I *want* to have a relationship with AP, not the opposite.

[vliberman]

If I were a brand that produces movements that have tendencies to fail catastrophically or generally inaccurate, I don't want u as a client. You raise too much fuss about it vs others who don't.

If I produce mostly good movements, with minimal failure, I don't need you as a client. Demand for product is strong and most customers are satisfied with fixes offered by the brand. Therefore, you are more of a headache than is worth it.

If I were AP, i don't think i would play ball with you. Damage is done. Offshores reputation is sullied. You are one of the reasons behind it from their standpoint.

Tough situation. Just saying. Hopefully your outcome is different.

I simply will never buy another AP.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by vliberman

If I were a brand that produces movements that have tendencies to fail catastrophically or generally inaccurate, I don't want u as a client. You raise too much fuss about it vs others who don't.

If I produce mostly good movements, with minimal failure, I don't need you as a client. Demand for product is strong and most customers are satisfied with fixes offered by the brand. Therefore, you are more of a headache than is worth it.

If I were AP, i don't think i would play ball with you. Damage is done. Offshores reputation is sullied. You are one of the reasons behind it from their standpoint.

Tough situation. Just saying. Hopefully your outcome is different.

I simply will never buy another AP.

I kind of disagree - a luxury product and brand in the long term lives on both the Veblen aspect, the desirability aspect and managing a demanding customer base by making them feel heard. Not many brands can get away long term by ignoring customers that are willing to drop $50k per product…

I think agreeing to a full ROO replacement with a commitment to allocate a nice desirable next piece is a potential win win. As is potentially allowing a reasonable exchange for a different piece (ie something not like a CE or a jumbo)…

Guess the question is : replacing the entire movement vs a new ROO is almost the exact same thing

Overall, just unfortunate to have that many issues

[Commandopat]

The issue from AP’s perspective, is a new ROO replacement means they have a watch they can no longer sell even once they refurbish it. Not OP’s problem of course, but if may play into AP’s thought process.
I think asking for a full replacement is justified, but then the case wasn’t broken, so I can also see AP’s desire to fix the problem which was only the movement.
As far as allowing an upgrade into the next allocation, that is often a standard option but then we’re not usually talking about limited availability products.

Really unfortunate position to be in. I’m glad the manager acknowledged this though. I wonder if he has any sway with AP, and can advocate for the OP in a resolution.

[salnuaimi]

In Dubai they will replace the caliber ..

[RTG]

Originally Posted by vliberman

If I were a brand that produces movements that have tendencies to fail catastrophically or generally inaccurate, I don't want u as a client. You raise too much fuss about it vs others who don't.

If I produce mostly good movements, with minimal failure, I don't need you as a client. Demand for product is strong and most customers are satisfied with fixes offered by the brand. Therefore, you are more of a headache than is worth it.

If I were AP, i don't think i would play ball with you. Damage is done. Offshores reputation is sullied. You are one of the reasons behind it from their standpoint.

Tough situation. Just saying. Hopefully your outcome is different.

I simply will never buy another AP.

AP sullied their own reputation with their actions.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by Commandopat

The issue from AP’s perspective, is a new ROO replacement means they have a watch they can no longer sell even once they refurbish it. Not OP’s problem of course, but if may play into AP’s thought process.
I think asking for a full replacement is justified, but then the case wasn’t broken, so I can also see AP’s desire to fix the problem which was only the movement.
As far as allowing an upgrade into the next allocation, that is often a standard option but then we’re not usually talking about limited availability products.

Really unfortunate position to be in. I’m glad the manager acknowledged this though. I wonder if he has any sway with AP, and can advocate for the OP in a resolution.

I guess I could see it both ways.

From AP's standpoint, they're replacing the problematic movement and the only thing staying the same is the case which is not the problem.

From the OP's standpoint, the watch has given him nothing but trouble and it seems like he has been more than patient with AP while there have been inexplicable lapses in quality control. A new/different watch (AP can use almost all parts in another watch if they would like) does not seem unreasonable.

Disappointing for the OP for sure.

[Watchman001]

What’s the next allocation?

[HMHM]

I think OP’s request is reasonable. Clearly the watch was defective from the very beginning if OP’s experience were as described. Furthermore, it seems from the post written that all he wants is just a like-for-like replacement, not even leveraging the poor experience so far to secure a RO allocation. Another alternative for OP would be to secure a refund and consider alternatives. A change of movement for another is a risk, particularly as the movement is known to have issues (fairly widespread) whether people want to acknowledge it or not. For OP to accept the movement replacement would mean that he is taking a risk and accepting the possibility of another defective watch. I’m not sure if that is what a luxury watch experience translates to. I believe even in the States, there is Lemon law to protect buyers from defective new cars.

[sski]

This is quite the horrendous experience....been following the thread; purely imo- the way forward from a customer centric strategy would be-- "we're so sorry for the troubles you've experienced- here's a full and unconditional refund; moving on- is there anything else in the AP Catalog that intrigues you? Let us know what it is and we shall do our utmost to make it possible for you the earliest we can."

They don't need to confirm a hard timeline for the new timepiece, but offer a commitment to make it right for a valued client. Cutting corners not the way to go.

[sski]

to the petrol heads out there---what if your new Lambo or Porsche or AMG blew out the engine within the first 3-6 months? Would a replacement engine suffice?

If not, same here.

[Commandopat]

Originally Posted by sski

to the petrol heads out there---what if your new Lambo or Porsche or AMG blew out the engine within the first 3-6 months? Would a replacement engine suffice?

If not, same here.

Bad example because that’s exactly what would happen. Yes, that would meet the mark.

Watches may be different, because I’m more inclined to agree with the OP in this case than I would be in your car example.

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by sski

This is quite the horrendous experience....been following the thread; purely imo- the way forward from a customer centric strategy would be-- "we're so sorry for the troubles you've experienced- here's a full and unconditional refund; moving on- is there anything else in the AP Catalog that intrigues you? Let us know what it is and we shall do our utmost to make it possible for you the earliest we can."

They don't need to confirm a hard timeline for the new timepiece, but offer a commitment to make it right for a valued client. Cutting corners not the way to go.

Honestly I think AP’s response is ok. Perhaps giving a full refund would have been better, but this poor experience should not be a ticket to get an allocation for anything else. That sets a dangerous precedent for the industry. There are way too many bad actors out there who would gladly open up the movement and intentionally damage a movement if they thought AP would offer a full refund + allocation for a hard to get watch. Creates moral hazard

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by sski

to the petrol heads out there---what if your new Lambo or Porsche or AMG blew out the engine within the first 3-6 months? Would a replacement engine suffice?

That's what happened with the 991.1 gen GT3, and that's what people got - new engine and extended warranty. It took Porsche a number of iterations to make that engine bulletproof.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

Honestly I think AP’s response is ok. Perhaps giving a full refund would have been better, but this poor experience should not be a ticket to get an allocation for anything else. That sets a dangerous precedent for the industry. There are way too many bad actors out there who would gladly open up the movement and intentionally damage a movement if they thought AP would offer a full refund + allocation for a hard to get watch. Creates moral hazard

Basically this.

If I was dealing with a high maintenance customer no matter what kind of crap I was giving them I’d cut them off after they go away.