Let's Pick Apart a Watch Day

[linesiders]

I would love to hear what the people here think is good or bad about this watch?

TuRo - not you

Seller states it was authenticated by Bucherer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134905023556

[Jaegodylan]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I would love to hear what the people here think is good or bad about this watch?

TuRo - not you

Seller states it was authenticated by Bucherer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134905023556

Haha!

I just emailed you about it.. was also sold yesterday and relisted.

Fake dial (shield alignment, text, etc) .. fake insert.. fake case?

[TuRo]

Darn it ....;-(....understood ✓

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

Haha!

I just emailed you about it.. was also sold yesterday and relisted.

Fake dial (shield alignment, text, etc) .. fake insert.. fake case?

What is one of the classic tells on the case ? And what does it mean?

Originally Posted by TuRo

Darn it ....;-(....understood ✓

[Jaegodylan]

Originally Posted by linesiders

What is one of the classic tells on the case ? And what does it mean?

The stepped case back?

To me the whole thing just looks far too fresh.

I wonder what the “Authenticators” will do with it.

[Jaegodylan]

Asked for history and movement pics.

“ Hi there, I have owned it for several months. I do not like as much as my Black Bay 58 which I wear far more now, so am selling.

I have not taken any pics of the movement myself, but I could likely pull pics from the listing where I purchased.

I would be happy to try to take my own if that would be helpful in addition. Please just let me know.”

[Jaegodylan]

He sent these over. Questionable that they belong to this watch.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

Asked for history and movement pics.

“ Hi there, I have owned it for several months. I do not like as much as my Black Bay 58 which I wear far more now, so am selling.

I have not taken any pics of the movement myself, but I could likely pull pics from the listing where I purchased.

I would be happy to try to take my own if that would be helpful in addition. Please just let me know.”

I did suggest that he'd go and post the watch here, because he didn't believe me, and get an opinion on it but he declined. I initially reached out because on a rare occasion the person doesn't know it's fake and I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. This guy was very very confident that it's legit watch or, confident that he wants to stick to his story. Makes him a fraud.

I did tell him that the watch was not going to make it past the ebay authentication process.

So one of the big tells on a case is the back of the crown guards, always get photos of the back of the crown guards. There are other tells for certain, but wonky photos can make a legit watch look bad, and a bad watch look legit. But it's really hard to get the Crown Guards right. So the big tell on the Crown Guard is on a real one, the crown will sit in the V of the Crown Guards with the crease where the slope starts a couple millimeters from where the crown meets the case. Most fakes the Crown Guard slope starts exactly where the crown meets the case. Almost like a pointed crown guard, but these are clearly far too late for point of crown guards. And even then the point of Crown Guard has a different shape.

Be cautious though, there are a lot of fakes today that have closer to accurate crown guards. You have to be careful. This one isn't even that good

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

He sent these over. Questionable that they belong to this watch.

The fact that that is not a 2776 movement, The fact that he was kind enough to put a jubilee bracelet on it for the photo but is not including the bracelet in the sale, should give you some concern.

[Jaegodylan]

He also added this in the talk.

Thanks for your insight!

[GuiltunderGlass]

Thank you for making this post, this kind of info is invaluable to the community.

Originally Posted by linesiders

I did tell him that the watch was not going to make it past the ebay authentication process.

Surprised to see this, I would think they would just ensure that the watch in hand matched the auction images and send it through, no?
Does eBay really have ppl that know these that well?

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by GuiltunderGlass

Thank you for making this post, this kind of info is invaluable to the community.


Surprised to see this, I would think they would just ensure that the watch in hand matched the auction images and send it through, no?
Does eBay really have ppl that know these that well?

I have purchased 3 watches through eBay since this authentication program has been in effect, and they're doing a decent job. They inspected a couple watches that were not common pieces, they got the information correct, they were able to go point out areas that were questionable that I knew of. Now there was an instance where one item had service parts that they did not call out, so it's not perfect, but i'm pretty confident they can tell a good fake from a real one. No way this clowns watch passes through them.

So the good news is in the three instances that I had to use them, because i had to , they basically confirmed what I already knew from looking at the pictures. This would be definitely beneficial to people that are less familiar with them. It does add four or five days to the delivery process. The seller ships to the authenticator, the authenticator inspects, and the authenticator ships to the buyer.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Jaegodylan

He also added this in the talk.

Thanks for your insight!

I do not recall seeing a case back stamped 9401, most of these are either not stamped with the ref number, or are stamped 9411, regardless if it's a date or no date. I'm not saying that it never happens, but I don't recall seeing that.

[Erpin]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I did suggest that he'd go and post the watch here, because he didn't believe me, and get an opinion on it but he declined. I initially reached out because on a rare occasion the person doesn't know it's fake and I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. This guy was very very confident that it's legit watch or, confident that he wants to stick to his story. Makes him a fraud.

I did tell him that the watch was not going to make it past the ebay authentication process.

So one of the big tells on a case is the back of the crown guards, always get photos of the back of the crown guards. There are other tells for certain, but wonky photos can make a legit watch look bad, and a bad watch look legit. But it's really hard to get the Crown Guards right. So the big tell on the Crown Guard is on a real one, the crown will sit in the V of the Crown Guards with the crease where the slope starts a couple millimeters from where the crown meets the case. Most fakes the Crown Guard slope starts exactly where the crown meets the case. Almost like a pointed crown guard, but these are clearly far too late for point of crown guards. And even then the point of Crown Guard has a different shape.

Be cautious though, there are a lot of fakes today that have closer to accurate crown guards. You have to be careful. This one isn't even that good

Many thanks for this valuable info on the crown guard.


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[alwayshere]

Also fake movement. The fake dial fits a 2824 movement which has different feet position vs the original.

You should link the seller too J.

Fun game tho…

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Also fake movement. The fake dial fits a 2824 movement which has different feet position vs the original.

You should link the seller too J.

Fun game tho…

Seller is in the ebay link.


I think you should pick apart the front of the dial the hands the insert the bezel and tell me what you think

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Seller is in the ebay link.


I think you should pick apart the front of the dial the hands the insert the bezel and tell me what you think

I don’t think we need to?

The whole thing is fake. Oversized hands, etc, not even close

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

I don’t think we need to?

The whole thing is fake. Oversized hands, etc, not even close

[harry in montreal]

Those hands are all proportioned incorrectly.

Fat minute hand. The second hand sweep box is too far out (it’s like it has a boner)

Nice post John.

John, you’re a gem and I really appreciate you. You’ve always sent me texts and you’re a uniquely knowledgeable and helpful guy.

Sincerely,

Harry

[996marty]

Some really valuable info within this post and always interesting to see people’s comments on something that clearly isn’t right

[1675-David]

OK I'll have a go, the hands looks strange, long hour hand, fat minute hand and weird second hand which has a strange Kim Jong un vibe, the bezel insert is aftermarket too including the pearl. The dial appears to have closed 6's which in my world sets off alarm bells and the case is clearly from Vietnam. So I'll join the "fake everything" chorus

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by GuiltunderGlass

Thank you for making this post, this kind of info is invaluable to the community.


Surprised to see this, I would think they would just ensure that the watch in hand matched the auction images and send it through, no?
Does eBay really have ppl that know these that well?

Think I can come out from under the duvet now - Not keen on the NATO either

But seriously, to answer your question, Ebay UK authentication team is run by Graham who I know and used to run a business next to The Swiss Watch Company in Chiswick, London. He is an extremely thorough and knowledgeable chap.

[clem2192]

Not sure any of it is any good (ie fake everything). It may have already been mentioned (and I may be wrong) but not keen on the hands. The seconds hand tip is far too short and the angles / points on the hour hand diamond are too 'soft'.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

OK I'll have a go, the hands looks strange, long hour hand, fat minute hand and weird second hand which has a strange Kim Jong un vibe, the bezel insert is aftermarket too including the pearl. The dial appears to have closed 6's which in my world sets off alarm bells and the case is clearly from Vietnam. So I'll join the "fake everything" chorus

The hands are an instant tell, I don't really know any fake ones that are 'good'.

If you imagine the seconds hand in the 15 position, the front of the square / rectangle should be well over the large lume marker, and then the two shoulders should be exactly lined up with the rear shoulders of the lume marker, and the rear of the rectangle should be back from the lume marker.

[996marty]

I see it got pulled from sale

[linesiders]

So I received an e-mail from eBay this morning that was in response to my reporting that listening. They decided not to remove the listing because it didn't meet their standards for removing it. Clearly the watch would not have passed through any marginally competent authenticatior, and ebay's authentication process is actually decent.

All that said the seller removed the listing this morning sometime.

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Those hands are all proportioned incorrectly.

Fat minute hand. The second hand sweep box is too far out (it’s like it has a boner)Harry

correct

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Nice post John.

John, you’re a gem and I really appreciate you. You’ve always sent me texts and you’re a uniquely knowledgeable and helpful guy.

Sincerely,

Harry

Thanks, Harry. If we all help each other a bit we can stay out of those mine fields.

[Dom9]

I don't think a Vietnamese faker would be very impressed with the quality of that!

Horrible thing!

[Helidoc]

Thanks for posting this. Knowledge is crucial to protect yourself, and I’m grateful to members who share their huge knowledge and experience so selflessly.

Thank you

Dave


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[Jaegodylan]

Originally Posted by linesiders

So I received an e-mail from eBay this morning that was in response to my reporting that listening. They decided not to remove the listing because it didn't meet their standards for removing it. Clearly the watch would not have passed through any marginally competent authenticatior, and ebay's authentication process is actually decent.

All that said the seller removed the listing this morning sometime.



correct



Thanks, Harry. If we all help each other a bit we can stay out of those mine fields.

I was in tough with the seller and pointed out the issues and he said he would bring it up with his “friend” that he got it from. He was thankful to be made aware.

[Lesnerelli23]

I thought about writing to the person listing this! Not a Tudor but I had a planet ocean, this one is….. yikes. Look at the movement picture!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38672968521...mis&media=COPY


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