Vintage 6536 Opinion Please

[Andy B]

Hello,
I am thinking of buying an old 1957 6536-1 Submariner.
It is "OK" condition and all appears to be original apart from the hands, which have been replace during a service.
I was wondering if anyone could give an opinion on how much they think the replacement of the hands will impact on the value of the watch?

Thanks,
Andy.

[watchcrank]

can be expensive, for 5508, 6536 up to $1500. dollars for a perfect pair.
you can usually find a re lumed or decent pair at $400.00 and up in the States. And this entirely depends on your luck at local shows or with dealers. Since watch is nice but not perfect a lesser quality of hands would suffice imho.
these are just my experiences and others will chime in with theirs, good luck. the 6536/1 is a great little watch. M

[Kingair]

In this shape it is going to cost you some money I am afraid.
Where are you going to find the correct matched hands ?
Case & bezel looks ok (picture is really dark)
But the dial . . .
Don't get me wrong because I like the watch !
Depends on the price and how much you want to invest in it . .
But that can be done down the road.
Anyway it's going to take some afford to get the colors of the dial and hands matched.
Plus the reconditioning of the dial . .

Good luck

[Andy B]

Thanks for the advice but I should have rephrased my post,
I am not looking to replace the hands, I would keep the replacement ones that already come with it. I was wondering, how much does the fact that the hands have been replaced by a pair on non original modern hands, impact on the overall value of this watch?

Thanks.

[azguy]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Thanks for the advice but I should have rephrased my post,
I am not looking to replace the hands, I would keep the replacement ones that already come with it. I was wondering, how much does the fact that the hands have been replaced by a pair on non original modern hands, impact on the overall value of this watch?

Thanks.

plenty in my opinion

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by azguy

plenty in my opinion

For a real collector . . . . less than 50 % I am afraid.
Probably they don't even look at a watch in this shape . . .

Ask Philipp he probably has tons of them ;-)
Check his posts and than you see what I mean.
His watches are 100 % correct.

[SubKing]

all collectors are different so it's hard to answer your question... with vintage, it all depends on how much someone else wants this particular watch.

the market right now is very soft for NCG subs.. for what ever reason.. its a market to buy but not a market to sell them right now..

the insert is fat font but not original to the watch it looks like. no pearl at the 12. the hands are not great and the dial has seen better days.. but it is still worth money, it just depends...

The hands are not all to take into consideration with this watch.. is the movement complete with butterfly rotor intact? is the 1030 movement in good shape inside this 6536-1? are the serial numbers still clear inbetween the lugs?

is the crown original with the plus sign or is it a service underline?
all this stuff really adds up on value.. the hands are most seen for sure, but not most important. until we have more pictures i.e movement, caseback ,crown, lugs serial numbers , it is just hard to say. some of these things can make a difference in the thousands...

the hands are a grand alone right there.. as for the rest??

If you want us to assume the rest of the watch is complete and original, minus the dot at $275 plus a nice pair of gilt NOS hands $1500 ish give or take, original old style insert anywhere from 2 grand on up.. service fat font inserts in great condition normally go for 600 to 800 bucksbut thats what you have on there already so you wont need that.

that is just me quoting you from what i can see in that one picture as for the rest?

if this 6536-1 was in nice condition and all original, with this market I would put a value on it of around 16 to 17k, but that doesnt mean you would sell it at that price.. unless you found the right buyer. like I said the market is soft. if you had the original bracelet, add another 2k onto the price to call it fair.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by SubKing

all collectors are different so it's hard to answer your question... with vintage, it all depends on how much someone else wants this particular watch.

the market right now is very soft for NCG subs.. for what ever reason.. its a market to buy but not a market to sell them right now..

the insert is fat font but not original to the watch it looks like. no pearl at the 12. the hands are not great and the dial has seen better days.. but it is still worth money, it just depends...

The hands are not all to take into consideration with this watch.. is the movement complete with butterfly rotor intact? is the 1030 movement in good shape inside this 6536-1? are the serial numbers still clear inbetween the lugs?

is the crown original with the plus sign or is it a service underline?
all this stuff really adds up on value.. the hands are most seen for sure, but not most important. until we have more pictures i.e movement, caseback ,crown, lugs serial numbers , it is just hard to say. some of these things can make a difference in the thousands...

the hands are a grand alone right there.. as for the rest??

If you want us to assume the rest of the watch is complete and original, minus the dot at $275 plus a nice pair of gilt NOS hands $1500 ish give or take, original old style insert anywhere from 2 grand on up.. service fat font inserts in great condition normally go for 600 to 800 bucksbut thats what you have on there already so you wont need that.

that is just me quoting you from what i can see in that one picture as for the rest?

if this 6536-1 was in nice condition and all original, with this market I would put a value on it of around 16 to 17k, but that doesnt mean you would sell it at that price.. unless you found the right buyer. like I said the market is soft. if you had the original bracelet, add another 2k onto the price to call it fair.

Now this is what I mean with a 'real collector' condition.

Thanks

[Andy B]

Thanks SubKing for your great advice, I really appreciate it.

To answer some of your questions, the crown is an underline replacement , the Cal.1030 movement still has the butterfly rotor, serial and model numbers are legible but there is no bracelet with it.
Do you think $5k-$6k is reasonable?

Andy.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Thanks SubKing for your great advice, I really appreciate it.

To answer some of your questions, the crown is an underline replacement , the Cal.1030 movement still has the butterfly rotor, serial and model numbers are legible but there is no bracelet with it.
Do you think $5k-$6k is reasonable?

Andy.

Change the question : do you feel comfortable if you hand over the 5 or 6K knowing what you just read ?

If it's yes . . . make your move today before it's to late . . . .

If not . . . look for another one.

My .02

[Andy B]

You are right Kingair, it is a lot of money and I am only playing with the idea really. It would be nice to get hold of a vintage Sub like this but is it really worth buying one in this condition, even if it is cheaper than one which is nearer "collector" condition.

[Keeperoftime]

SubKing, Great information!

[SubKing]

no prob guys..

andy,
as long as the seller is someone you trust, then go for it. but if not, then hold off.
i would hate for you to get it and what if parts you cannot see are in very bad shape? i bought a 6536-1 once and when I got it, stripped the bezel off and the crystal retaining ring was shot and not even original.. i couldn't go after the seller because he didnt know, he wasn't a watch maker. the crystal retaining ring is what holds the crystal onto the watch and keeps a water tight seal. most important part.. that runs 600 bucks if you can find one in not stretched condition.. if it's ok condition but stretched, then the watch will never be a tight seal.. that could lead to other problems...

also from the picture, the crystal looks to be a service tropic 16 and not the domed tropic that rolex no longer makes.. domed for those of you who don't know the difference are rounded on the edges which give more of a magnified look at an angle as for a new rolex service crystal that has a chamfered like edge to it and they are not as domed..

that's another 500 bucks right there if you can even source a nice nos crystal. again i could be wrong but from the picture it deff looks like a service crystal..

as the watch sits, you wouldn't do bad what so ever at 6K.. but the problem most off all with vintage, is if you get a fixer upper, in the end, it will cause you more stress to find each part you will need and can sometimes take years to find everything, but it will also cost you more then if you just bought the watch complete and original in a package deal. i have gotten burned too many times on fixer upper watches... i just don't buy em anymore.

If I cannot except the watch for what it is then i wont dare buy a vintage. unless i am in love with it.


Vintage is a very personal thing.. a watch that sings to me might not sing to you, but thats the way it is.

there are just so many little things i cannot begin to tell you... all the prices i gave you are not even counting the cost in labor for a watch maker to install everything.. unless you can do it your self.

if you can live with it as it sits, then i say 6k is a great price, 5k even better
in time you can always sell it for exactly what you have into it. but at that rate, why buy it if you plan to one day sell it? hold out for something you like better if thats the case.

for example, back when the market was better for NCG subs, i purchased a 6536-1 from 1955 for 7500 bucks, I thought at that time I did very well.. i never thought I would want to sell it being such an early 6536-1... but then I fell inlove with another watch and no longer wanted to make room for the 6536-1.. I must have put over 2k into that watch.. so 9500 i was into it for.. sold it on ebay for 8200, after ebay and paypal fees, I only made just under $7800... what a waste of time and money that watch was for me.. but where I lost, i also saved on my new purchase, so everything worked out for the best..

[mfer]

This post makes me realize I'm years away from buying vintage. Maybe I need to stick to new.

[Robbyvm]

Originally Posted by mfer

This post makes me realize I'm years away from buying vintage. Maybe I need to stick to new.

There are enough great vintage rolexes where doubt is unnecessary... There are nice deals and great dealers to buy them from but if you look for bargains,.... I don't think so...

[dysondiver]

lots of good solid info in this thread , many thanks

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Vintage is a very personal thing.. a watch that sings to me might not sing to you, but thats the way it is.

B I N G O !

[SubKing]

[azguy]

Super thread, thanks Subking for a very educational past 5 minutes

To me this is almost like classic cars, muscle cars actually....

OP, if you a buy a watch like this and do all the right things it's like buying that "old car" and fixing it up. For your time and effort, you can always score one cheaper completely restored IMHO...

I have a nothing special Tudor 79090 blue sub and have been trying to just source a bezel insert and it's not fun or easy...when you do find something in great shape the price just kills you I don't mind spending money on my watches and even I said a couple of times "I'm not paying that"...for real-

Subking already said finding parts is well.....you know, a life long pursuit.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by azguy

Super thread, thanks Subking for a very educational past 5 minutes

To me this is almost like classic cars, muscle cars actually....

OP, if you a buy a watch like this and do all the right things it's like buying that "old car" and fixing it up. For your time and effort, you can always score one cheaper completely restored IMHO...

I have a nothing special Tudor 79090 blue sub and have been trying to just source a bezel insert and it's not fun or easy...when you do find something in great shape the price just kills you I don't mind spending money on my watches and even I said a couple of times "I'm not paying that"...for real-

Subking already said finding parts is well.....you know, a life long pursuit.

[Andy B]

Thanks for yall your great contributions on this one (especially yours SubKing ), I have learned so much and am really grateful.

Well, I have a dicision to make.....

[Andy B]

....not this time.

Auction

It was hovering around £3000 for a while, but not any more.

Thanks again for all your advice

Andy.

[Mark020]

Sum of the parts is already (far) passed at USD 9k. Be glad you didn't get it.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Sum of the parts is already (far) passed at USD 9k. Be glad you didn't get it.

Oeps . . .
That's some money . . . at least for me ;-)

HANW

[rolexguy777]

SOME DAY,,,, THEY WILL BE "OUT THERE"??? but intill then,,,

look,,,,and try to find like this!!

[Mark020]

Bid on 2 of them on the bay but lost twice as #2