1977 5513 with Serif dial

[Yussy]

Howdy folks,

Interested in this 5513 but not sure about some things:

1) Serif dial seemed to end in 1973 yet this from 1977 has one? Also original clasp (vc) and serial (52XXXX) seem to suggest 1978.
2) No box and papers but was bought from a reputable dealer in 2016 and was serviced by RSC with excellent reputation in 2022.
3) Case seems unpolished but one of the lugs seems a bit less sharp.
4) Sales people clearly knew nothing about Rolex's - didn't know how to take spring bar off to reveal serial number or able to take case back off.

Would be my first sub and first vintage Rolex - asking price is £9.5k. Would most likely be a daily.

Any input would be much appreciated.

[Dan S]

We will need photos if you want us to check. It does seem late for a serif dial, if that's what it is.

[Yussy]

Just getting up to my 10 posts!

Dan - I'm glad you agree but a Google has thrown up some 77 Serif dials on some reputable dealers.

[Yussy]

https://ibb.co/9yMRMMY
https://ibb.co/ZzLgrcS
https://ibb.co/gJBxCNy
https://ibb.co/ftxf22h
https://ibb.co/KyKj9mg
https://ibb.co/RHQLgF3

[Dan S]

It's always annoying when hands are blocking the main text, but it does appear to be a serif dial. The photos don't show the serial. The case isn't bad, but certainly not unpolished from what I can see.

[springer]

5.2 million serial numbers fall within maxi dial territory. Might be some earlier stragglers in that range also.

[Dan S]

I agree that it would be an outlier, which doesn't make it impossible, obviously. Outliers are always tricky. If you can get the price down, maybe you'd feel more comfortable with it.

FWIW, my 5.15M has a "Pre Comex" dial, and I think that a 5.2M would most often have a Pre Comex or early Maxi. But that's just a "usually."

[XavierM]

- Better pictures needed tu judge the insert originality but a modern pearl has been fitted onto it anyway, it kills a big part of the value IMO
- Again, not much possible with these pictures but hands lume definitely need some investigation
- Might be a service 703 crown
- Might be a service Bezel as well
- Case seems fat, not unpolished IMO but flat flanks, large CG

I would investigate more before pulling the trigger, especially with this dial/serial thing

[Yussy]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'll check for this. Also how is everyone shooting their high-res images? With a camera and macro lens?

@ Xavier - what is it about the hands that need investigation?

[XavierM]

Affirm, some of us simply use a phone camera with an external macro lens, easily found on Amazon for a few bucks.

Regarding the hands, the color and texture might point to a relume IMO, but impossible to tell for sure with these pics.

[Yussy]

Bumping this as can see the watch is still sitting in the dealer (might say it all!), but after initially being turned off by comments above and also not finding many 5513's on trusted websites, I would like to reconsider this as a daily driver.

Will get better pictures with new iPhone macro lens I've bought, but want more clarity on the below:
- From my limited understanding the insert seems consistent with fat font of the time period and definitely not the thin numbering on the service inserts - what gives this away?
- Modern pearl - how is this identified?
- Can confirm the crown is a service one – a new crown and tube was fitted on it's last service which was documented. Seems a lot of watches from this era no longer have the original crown without the 3 dots.

Will return with new photos when I go in with a lower offer.

Thanks and happy new year to everyone!

[Yussy]

After further sleuthing, I am 99% sure this is the exact watch in question.

https://www.ukspecialistwatches.co.u...-vintage-1977/

[Dan S]

The pearl appears to be set in a metal bezel.

Originally Posted by Yussy

After further sleuthing, I am 99% sure this is the exact watch in question.

https://www.ukspecialistwatches.co.u...-vintage-1977/

If so, then a nasty scratch has been added to the insert since it was sold.

[Yussy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The pearl appears to be set in a metal bezel.



If so, then a nasty scratch has been added to the insert since it was sold.

Googling 5513s I see a lot with the metal bezel surrounding the pearl, is this always a replacement of the original? I must admit this one seems to be much larger than most.

Regarding the scratches - yes it is rather sad isn't it!

[Yussy]

Lol I keep answering my own questions, seems the pip with plastic surround is correct for the 5513 so definitely a replacement pearl.

Having seen the high-res pics from the previous dealer, can you comment on the hands being relumed? Is it odd taht the second hand seems a lot lighter than the hour/minute markers?

[TuRo]

Imho the hour and minute hands didn't originate with the watch and it's quite a poor match. Without a 20x I can't say if relumed though.

[Tensai]

I agree with you about not finding many good 5513s on trusted websites. Many of the same watches sitting around for months and months. Because they are priced way too high.

[Yussy]

@TuRo- thanks for you input, have learnt a lot from everyone in this thread so thanks a lot.

@Tensai - tell me about it!The search continues!

[Dench]

Originally Posted by Tensai

I agree with you about not finding many good 5513s on trusted websites. Many of the same watches sitting around for months and months. Because they are priced way too high.

You might check the instagrams of trusted TRF members. I have found some prices to be more reasonable than at dealers.

[Yussy]

Originally Posted by Dench

You might check the instagrams of trusted TRF members. I have found some prices to be more reasonable than at dealers.

Great input, have had a look at some already but largely US based (which I’m not opposed too but comes with customs etc) - can anyone point me in the direction of UK-based accounts?

I’m veering towards a 1680 now as seems to be more better priced examples about but love the clean face of the 5513.

RE: relumed hands without years of experience would it be the case of testing under a UV light to see if dial and hands have similar lume and checking texture of hands using macro/loupe?

The dial/serial and non-matching hands makes this a no-go for me as it seems a bit franken - but always looking to learn more for eventual purchase.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Yussy

RE: relumed hands without years of experience would it be the case of testing under a UV light to see if dial and hands have similar lume and checking texture of hands using macro/loupe?

Yes. Always get a UV/blacklight photo. Can give great clues about the originality of the dial/hands tritium, or lack thereof.

[Tensai]

Originally Posted by Yussy

@TuRo- thanks for you input, have learnt a lot from everyone in this thread so thanks a lot.

@Tensai - tell me about it!The search continues!

Best of luck Yussy!

[OmegaAlpha]

Just a thought. According to the website below, the serif dial 5513 milsub can be found until 1977.

Makes me wonder, could some of these serif dials be produced without the “T” in 1977 and then fitted as regular 5513s, which is why we see some of these in the late 70s when the norm would be pre-comex or maxi dials?

https://danielbourn.com/the-rolex-milsub/


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[GuiltunderGlass]

Originally Posted by OmegaAlpha

Just a thought. According to the website below, the serif dial 5513 milsub can be found until 1977.

Makes me wonder, could some of these serif dials be produced without the “T” in 1977 and then fitted as regular 5513s, which is why we see some of these in the late 70s when the norm would be pre-comex or maxi dials?

https://danielbourn.com/the-rolex-milsub/


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I was somewhat obsessed w/ serif dialed 5513s when I first got into watches years ago and have followed them pretty closely on various sales platforms ever since. I've seen an inordinate amount in the 5M / 77-78 range and your post was kind of an epiphany. I often remark on IG posts of milsubs that they seem to always have the best "serifing" for lack of a better term, but unstamped milsub dials going into regular production models makes perfect sense.
Mine from 77.

[OmegaAlpha]

Originally Posted by GuiltunderGlass

I was somewhat obsessed w/ serif dialed 5513s when I first got into watches years ago and have followed them pretty closely on various sales platforms ever since. I've seen an inordinate amount in the 5M / 77-78 range and your post was kind of an epiphany. I often remark on IG posts of milsubs that they seem to always have the best "serifing" for lack of a better term, but unstamped milsub dials going into regular production models makes perfect sense.
Mine from 77.

Nice watch! :)


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