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Old 16 January 2018, 11:03 AM   #1
Wiener48
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Rolex Geneve Heritage Service

Help needed, is this still existing, the "Rolex Geneve Heritage Service"?

What are they doing exactly? When I send them a Rolex from the 60s what are they doing? They tell you the Story of the watch, or only a Service?

Is it via the local dealer?

Thanks for helping
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Old 16 January 2018, 01:59 PM   #2
Vlad
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as of few months ago it did exist. However, they charge $1,000 for an estimate - again, for an estimate. When I spoke with them, they implied that any service will be way over $10,000 and $1,000 for an estimate is reasonable.... I do not agree with that approach.

I need a dial for a 4467 (one of the first 100), Rolex service person was very dismissing of the watch, which I find unfortunate, as the 30th Datejust ever made is still the 30th Datejust ever made.

talking to other people (numerous other people), I got an indication that Rolex is willing to charge upto $30,000 for a service dial (obviosuly not the original - $18,000 for COA, $12,000 for the dial, ... or whatever combination they choose). As such, when I was in Zurich, I decided against driving to Geneva to visit Rolex. At some point, I'll buy another 4467 and will pull the dial out of that for my watch.

It's really sad that Rolex treats collecters as they do... I have dealt with Patek and with Vacheron - amazingly different and better experience.

Vlad
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Old 16 January 2018, 03:38 PM   #3
John Ireland
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If that is what Rolex is pulling, it is pure BS and robbery. There are great watch repair facilities in the US that will give you great work at an honest price.
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Old 16 January 2018, 09:49 PM   #4
datejust24
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$10k for a service ? That alone is sheer insanity
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Old 16 January 2018, 10:56 PM   #5
Wiener48
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Mama mia, can't believe it, thank you for the info. Can't understand this strategy, but OK.
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Old 16 January 2018, 11:54 PM   #6
roh123
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Pretty obvious Rolex doesn’t want to service old watches. What they offer is a premium service for people not trusting anyone else to touch their pieces. I don’t really see it is a big problem. It’s where you go with super rare pieces if you don’t have better options and you don’t care about the price. It is also where you go with watches no one believes in order to get authentication for it. Pay 10-20k and hope the value on your watch boosts much more with the Rolex service papers explaining the issues of the watch. Probably not a great idea most of the time.
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Old 17 January 2018, 04:57 AM   #7
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This topic comes up from time to time. I had never seen a finished heritage piece and actually took years till I finally came across a couple examples of a known watch with paperwork from Rolex heritage. (pictured below)

As Roh stated above, Rolex doesn't care about your old watch.. However, I do feel Rolex cares a great deal about vintage watches if they can benefit. Which is why they have a stock pile of vintage parts that they have taken out of watches over the years from routine services.. You would be sadly mistaken if you think they throw the old parts into the incinerator.. They have their own archive of "stuff" that would make any one of us fall to our knees if gotten the chance to view. Think of it in the same way Deberes is to diamonds, only Rolex isn't filtering parts into the market.

There was actually a thread on VRF some time ago about a collector in Australia who sent his double red in for service. RSC ended up damaging his dial during service and all said and done, they reached out to Geneva and actually put an original NOS double red dial back into his watch and was said the replacement dial was even nicer than the one they damaged. RSC's all over the world have different policies. So you can bet that if this happened in the states, they would not take responsibility and you would most likely end up with a white service dial and maybe even a double red service lumi dial if you were lucky and pushed hard enough.

Over the years there have been stories of known leaks at Rolex that were stopped; employees selling rare vintage parts on the open market..

Back to the Heritage service. What we know is that Rolex deals in huge volume both with selling watches and with servicing. Their only concern is to bring any watch that comes through, back to as new condition. If there is a particular piece that they no longer make parts for, it is rejected. This is when the Heritage Dep comes in. Now its not something rolex advertises and for good reason to. More like a word of mouth type of thing. Infact, I have asked RSC Dallas before about the heritage dep and they thought I was crazy.. They honestly have no clue. You have to reach out to Geneva directly to get that answer (which I have).

With the way the heritage dep goes about servicing's, they operate more like a third party..

They charge a great deal of money in the Heritage dep for the reason being, you are getting Rolex themselves to give you individual attention on custom manufacturing one off parts for your watch that they no longer produce. Whether it be a custom pad printed red triangle insert, or a gilt dial, custom lume color, long matching gilt hands, case restoration.. You don't have to worry about them removing your precious 1030 butterfly rotor here with a modern one folks, oh no.. Special attention is given, and with special attention comes the exorbitant service costs.

Did you know that the heritage Dep could reject your piece if they feel its too far gone? Yep..

If you heard pateks service times are long, you best forget you even own your watch if you send it to Rolex heritage..

Now I come to the point of "period correctness" of work done by rolex heritage. Their gilt dials, hands and inserts look the part at a quick glance, but any collector knows its not original. Think of it this way, many have seen the rare Red 1680 luminova dial yes? You can clearly tell it's a service dial, yet rolex still went out of the way to produce the dial with the red text... It's the same with their gilt dials, only you can get more particular with picking out lume color, insert style etc..

At the end of the day, it is a rolex serviced watch.

The heritage dep isn't going to make your vintage piece as valuable as it was in its original form.

The heritage dep isn't trying to fool ppl with their restorations.

I personally think these special services are designed for the person who has an old watch that has special meaning and isn't looking at it from a value standpoint. Rolex heritage will try to bring your piece back to as close to original condition as possible, to give you the nostalgia and warmth that will take you back to when you first purchased the piece..

The heritage paperwork is the same as having rolex service paper work, or archive extracts from patek..

When it comes to the suite of services offered by rolex heritage, I am unsure of the extent they will go to for restoration before they replace the part altogether. I myself still wonder if they would repair an original gilt dial that had minor damage? I would assume they would, depending on the quality of work done, in this case, it might actually be beneficial for a collector from a value standpoint to have the heritage service done.

Why have we never seen a heritage restored rolex on the market for sale? Most likely because the people who spend that kind of money on the piece, keep it in the family. Or if a rare vintage piece has been repaired and no parts replaced, then no one would be the wiser when it hits the market.

Below is a picture I have of a known 6538 heritage piece. At a glance, every collector would scream fake or reprinted dial and aftermarket insert.. But it has the accompanying heritage paperwork explaining it. Have a look at the pictures below and ask yourself if 15 to 20k would be worth it to have a piece restored to look like that? Then I think you will have a better idea of the intentions that the heritage dep have.

heritage Dep 6538 with paperwork below



here is a 5508 that had some work done. Note that the dial is original, but the insert however is a known problem with the heritage red inserts as the triangles are off tilt
this picture was used some time ago on VRF for a convo about the heritage dep quality of service.


As you can tell with my long indepth response above, I have always taken a great deal of interest with Rolex Heritage Dep servicing's and only hope as time goes on, more people can share pictures and their experiences about Rolex Heritage that will shed some more light on many of the unknown's that are still left to be said.
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Old 17 January 2018, 06:39 AM   #8
Wiener48
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What an answer, wow, thank you. Need time to read, thanks again.
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Old 17 January 2018, 07:12 AM   #9
Wesley Crusher
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I’d be pissed if Rolex charged me 10k+ and they gave me an insert that looked like that....
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Old 17 January 2018, 09:08 AM   #10
Richard Carver
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It's the vintage parts thing that gets me fantasizing. Remember, because of radiation concerns every bakelite 6542 bezel insert they could get to was replaced with an aluminum one in the early 60s. They certainly kept those out of legal concerns if nothing else.

At the height of the 6542 frenzy a decent bakelite insert was bringing 20 thousand dollars (still bringing big bucks today). Can you imagine the heads at Rolex quietly exploding as they wander over to a drawer filled with hundreds, perhaps thousands of nearly new bakelite 6542 'take off' inserts from the 60s?

The Rolex parts department always reminds me of the last scene in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. I see some ancient parts guy trudging down a dusty aisle carrying some unspeakable treasure to be filed away with all the other unspeakable treasures already there. :)
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Old 17 January 2018, 09:50 AM   #11
Wesley Crusher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Carver View Post
It's the vintage parts thing that gets me fantasizing. Remember, because of radiation concerns every bakelite 6542 bezel insert they could get to was replaced with an aluminum one in the early 60s. They certainly kept those out of legal concerns if nothing else.

At the height of the 6542 frenzy a decent bakelite insert was bringing 20 thousand dollars (still bringing big bucks today). Can you imagine the heads at Rolex quietly exploding as they wander over to a drawer filled with hundreds, perhaps thousands of nearly new bakelite 6542 'take off' inserts from the 60s?

The Rolex parts department always reminds me of the last scene in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. I see some ancient parts guy trudging down a dusty aisle carrying some unspeakable treasure to be filed away with all the other unspeakable treasures already there. :)
I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple of those inserts “disappeared” through the years.
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Old 17 January 2018, 05:48 PM   #12
Wiener48
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So the service is only in Swiss, nothing via the dealer if I understand correctly. Are they doing expertise’s also, or only technical things?
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Old 17 January 2018, 11:52 PM   #13
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I am aware of a Rolex 6239 Daytona (non-Paul Newman) being submitted to Rolex Geneva for a service / light restoration from a UK owner in 2017.

The bill was GBP £17,000 inc. VAT.

Bonkers!!

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Old 18 January 2018, 12:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wood View Post
I am aware of a Rolex 6239 Daytona (non-Paul Newman) being submitted to Rolex Geneva for a service / light restoration from a UK owner in 2017.

The bill was GBP £17,000 inc. VAT.

Bonkers!!

Mike, any idea of what work was being done? Any pictures or additional info you can share about heritage?
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Old 18 January 2018, 01:22 AM   #15
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double post
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Old 18 January 2018, 01:23 AM   #16
Vincent65
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I’d be pissed if Rolex charged me 10k+ and they gave me an insert that looked like that....
x 2 - pathetic.
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Old 18 January 2018, 01:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wood View Post
I am aware of a Rolex 6239 Daytona (non-Paul Newman) being submitted to Rolex Geneva for a service / light restoration from a UK owner in 2017.

The bill was GBP £17,000 inc. VAT.

Bonkers!!

Pretty high, but Rolex Geneva controls the key to their kingdom and the Swiss Franc is always beating up others' currencies. Their game, their rules, their ticket.
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Old 18 January 2018, 03:40 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
It's really sad that Rolex treats collecters as they do...
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ireland View Post
If that is what Rolex is pulling, it is pure BS and robbery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by datejust24 View Post
$10k for a service ? That alone is sheer insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Pretty obvious Rolex doesn’t want to service old watches. What they offer is a premium service for people not trusting anyone else to touch their pieces.
This sounds more like an overpriced servicing where the customer pays for an 'official pedigree' of sorts.
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Old 18 January 2018, 06:29 AM   #19
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While the prices are extreme and the work done is not always appreciated by pur sang vintage collectors, it is close to a wet dream for a watchmaker to work at that department.
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Rolex uses rare elves to polish the platinum. They have a union deal and make like $90 per hour and get time and half on weekends.
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Old 18 January 2018, 01:07 PM   #20
Vlad
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x 2 - pathetic.
x3

P.S. Patek charged me $4,000 (OK, 10 years ago) for complete COA, re-nickle/replace bridges and parts, restore a dial, gold spring bars, and few other things - the movement came back looking BRAND NEW - I though that was a lot - now I think it was a bargain
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Old 19 January 2018, 08:20 PM   #21
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So it could be that when you send them a watch they keep it?
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Old 19 January 2018, 08:33 PM   #22
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yes but look at that 6538......
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