Case Pitting

[rmurphy]

Good afternoon everyone. I have noticed a fair amount of watches listed with what looks to me like severe pitting and corrosion around the O ring and case back area on a lot of Datejust’s and Subs. To me it looks like the watch is pretty much a paperweight at that point but they are listed for sale and even more baffling is the amount of times the seller writes that the case is thick and in great shape.
Am I missing something here? I can’t see the case being in great shape. How does this damage happen to a watch? Bad gaskets? I am obsessive with making sure this never happens to any of mine. Thanks for your feedback


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[SearChart]

Happens with 316L steel that was used back in the day, moisture+ skin acids, give it a few decades and that is what happens. Regular maintenance and keeping it clean and relatively dry does prevent this, as you don't see it on all of them.

Hard to fix these cases with laser welding, that is a tricky area and you need some good lathe skills to refine the work afterwards.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Am I missing something here? I can’t see the case being in great shape. How does this damage happen to a watch? Bad gaskets?


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You're not missing anything, and it's more prevalent in the 316 SS watches. It's also one of the reasons why Rolex changed across to 904 SS for it's higher resistance to corrosion

The watches in question may be fine visually but on a practical level, the lack of water tightness is fundamentally impacting the Rolexness of the watches. In some respects they're a Rolex in name only, and unless Rolex themselves can replace the Mid-case they won't service them any longer so as to restore the water resistance.
How does it happen?
Some people have more acidic perspiration than others, this acid when combined with elevated temperatures is a perfect nexus for accelerated corrosion whenever it takes hold.
And like any corrosion, it never sleeps.
Dead skin and grime also helps to make it into a paste when combined with the body oils that are associated with perspiration after the moisture content has stabilized in the joint formed between the Mid-case and Caseback.
The pasty nature of the compound makes it difficult to get at and remove from the groove of the joint.

The best remedy is probably to wash the watch often in some warm water and dish soap whilst using a soft bristled tooth brush around the joint and service the watch at appropriate intervals which will ensure the overall cleanliness of the joint.
At the very least rinse the watch under some fresh water, though this may have limited effect overall unless one has just emerged from a salt water environment.

[speedyomega]

pics?

[rmurphy]

Originally Posted by speedyomega

pics?

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:




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[faimag]

Disaster

[rmurphy]

Originally Posted by faimag

Disaster

Well that’s what I would think as well, but I can’t believe the amount of times I read a sale listing that someone describes the watch and case in “great shape.” I’m not saying that listings I’m referring to are as bad as the photo above but they are what I would consider bad enough. I have a 8.59 mil series 16014 that has zero pitting or corrosion anywhere on the case or hands and I when I see all these watches aging so poorly it’s concerning to me. I want to prevent this at all costs.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by faimag

Disaster

Not if one can have it replaced.
Then the "collector"types have coniptions and either respectfully pass on the watch or leverage the issue to gain a price advantage.
Then they will turn around and get a big woody over matching dial and hand patina, coffee coloured lume and spiderwebing. Etc.
The condition of Case back area really ought to be regarded as part and parcel of the concept around the originality of the piece if they wish to fully preserve the serial number.
Let's face it, it's not uncommon for the serial number to be worn off between the lugs as well so it's not that much of a critical issue as long as Rolex has a traceable record of the change and it's fully backed by the Mothership. IMO

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Well that’s what I would think as well, but I can’t believe the amount of times I read a sale listing that someone describes the watch and case in “great shape.” I’m not saying that listings I’m referring to are as bad as the photo above but they are what I would consider bad enough. I have a 8.59 mil series 16014 that has zero pitting or corrosion anywhere on the case or hands and I when I see all these watches aging so poorly it’s concerning to me. I want to prevent this at all costs.


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You can only do what you can do.
It's up to you to adopt best practice of regular cleaning and maintenance.

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Good afternoon everyone. I have noticed a fair amount of watches listed with what looks to me like severe pitting and corrosion around the O ring and case back area on a lot of Datejust’s and Subs. To me it looks like the watch is pretty much a paperweight at that point but they are listed for sale and even more baffling is the amount of times the seller writes that the case is thick and in great shape.
Am I missing something here? I can’t see the case being in great shape. How does this damage happen to a watch? Bad gaskets? I am obsessive with making sure this never happens to any of mine. Thanks for your feedback


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Because of acid inside the sweat coming from the skin.

Not washing the watch often.

Swimming with the watch inside pool or sea.

Sleeping with the watch.

Instead of washing the watch with filtered water, washing it with tap water which have sediment, stain and other particles.

Using soap instead of baby shampoo which ruins gaskets.

My Sub C has never been under any water. Only washed with filtered water and baby shampoo after every wear. I have worn the watch 2-3 days a month since 8 years and washed it after each time I wear it. Recently serviced and I saw that it was looking like a brand new watch. The watchmaker opened the case so easily and was shocked to see a 8 year old like brand new watch.

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:




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Disgusting

[rmurphy]

Originally Posted by Dirt

You can only do what you can do.

It's up to you to adopt best practice of regular cleaning and maintenance.

I was mine every day it’s worn, well I might skip a day every now and again. lol


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[AJMarcus]

That’s one of the many challenges (or pitfalls) when collecting vintage

[Rori]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:




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How can someone take such a disgusting picture of a watch with the intention of selling it.


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[Dirt]

It's ok as long as everyone is on board with what it is and full disclosure.
Sold as is, where is, no responsibility.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by seasubmariner

Because of acid inside the sweat coming from the skin.

Not washing the watch often.

Swimming with the watch inside pool or sea.

Sleeping with the watch.

Instead of washing the watch with filtered water, washing it with tap water which have sediment, stain and other particles.

Using soap instead of baby shampoo which ruins gaskets.

My Sub C has never been under any water. Only washed with filtered water and baby shampoo after every wear. I have worn the watch 2-3 days a month since 8 years and washed it after each time I wear it. Recently serviced and I saw that it was looking like a brand new watch. The watchmaker opened the case so easily and was shocked to see a 8 year old like brand new watch.

Yes, but your Sub C is made entirely with that over rated 904 SS.

[77T]

Probably a good primer on why Rolex switched to 904L 35 years ago.


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[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Yes, but your Sub C is made entirely with that over rated 904 SS.

I have much older watches too and all are clean. All of my listed points will do the trick but most people dont care.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by seasubmariner

I have much older watches too and all are clean. All of my listed points will do the trick but most people dont care.

I think you may be right

[214270Explorer]

Notice that the gasket has protected the innards.

That is the most important thing here.

And yes, 904L is more corrosion resistant than the older 316L.

[rmurphy]

So the answer is neglect? Neglect causes this? Because I’ve seen plenty really old watches that don’t have corrosion this bad.
My Datejust is my oldest watch, and according to the serial number registries you see online it’s from 84-85 but was purchased on 3/14/90 and I’m looking to do whatever I can to prevent any pitting and oxidation of my dial and hands, if possible.
I have none as of now. I plan on passing this one on to my 5 year old daughter when she’s old enough for a nice watch. Of all my children she’s the only one who cares about my watches. I asked my sons if they were interested in any of them and they all said they wouldn’t wear one. Mind boggling, she can have them all I guess.




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[Tools]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

So the answer is neglect? Neglect causes this? Because I’ve seen plenty really old watches that don’t have corrosion this bad.
. . .

Stainless Steel is stainless because if forms it's own passive coating of chromium oxide.

The gasket itself can flex and rub, and take off this coating enough for the acids from our bodies to get a foothold, as well as it's own PREN (pitting resistance equivalency number).

Routine servicing, which cleans and neutralizes these surfaces of acids, and allows it to reform it's passive coating, along with some protective lube, is key in older watches to prevent or lessen the potential for corrosion.

Now days those older cases can be neutralized, filled, and resurfaced to, once again, be waterproof.

Yes, 904L has a higher PREN than 316 grades.

[rmurphy]

Originally Posted by Tools

Stainless Steel is stainless because if forms it's own passive coating of chromium oxide.



The gasket itself can flex and rub, and take off this coating enough for the acids from our bodies to get a foothold, as well as it's own PREN (pitting resistance equivalency number).



Routine servicing, which cleans and neutralizes these surfaces of acids, and allows it to reform it's passive coating, along with some protective lube, is key in older watches to prevent or lessen the potential for corrosion.



Now days those older cases can be neutralized, filled, and resurfaced to, once again, be waterproof.



Yes, 904L has a higher PREN than 316 grades.

Is my Datejust 904 or 316? I know Rolex started using 904 in 85 and the serial number charts are so iffy that it’s obviously right on the line being it’s a 8.59 million serial number.


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[Claven2]

As someone else mentions - if you swim in chlorinated pools or the salt water with the watch and don't rinse it off after with fresh water, or if you are "blessed" with more acidic sweat than is the norm and wear your watch whilst sweating a lot, then it will be susceptible to this kind of pitting.

Most watches don't have this sort of pitting, but most watches also don't live as hard a life as the rough examples have ;)

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Is my Datejust 904 or 316? I know Rolex started using 904 in 85 and the serial number charts are so iffy that it’s obviously right on the line being it’s a 8.59 million serial number.


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I would not worry either way unless you expose the watch the chlorine or salt a lot and don't clean it afterward.

[smym18]

Originally Posted by seasubmariner

I have much older watches too and all are clean. All of my listed points will do the trick but most people dont care.

So the trick to having a perfectly clean watch is wearing it 2-3 times per MONTH, never getting it wet, but if you do only baby shampoo to clean. Got it.

[joli160]

Just wear it 24/7 including under the shower and you'll be fine.

[Thuilln]

Originally Posted by seasubmariner

My Sub C has never been under any water. Only washed with filtered water and baby shampoo after every wear. I have worn the watch 2-3 days a month since 8 years and washed it after each time I wear it. Recently serviced and I saw that it was looking like a brand new watch. The watchmaker opened the case so easily and was shocked to see a 8 year old like brand new watch.

That’s a bit over cautious, I’d say...

[jeorge]

Originally Posted by rmurphy

Is my Datejust 904 or 316? I know Rolex started using 904 in 85 and the serial number charts are so iffy that it’s obviously right on the line being it’s a 8.59 million serial number.


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Your DJ is 316L . The sea dweller got the case made out of 904 in the 1980s .

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by smym18

So the trick to having a perfectly clean watch is wearing it 2-3 times per MONTH, never getting it wet, but if you do only baby shampoo to clean. Got it.

I ve already shared my experiences.