Is there a brand that you think is superior to Patek Philippe?

[lapince]

If you take the best Pateks, talking 400K or more, they are perfect, but the cheaper ones clearly have very little which is hand made, I still think that the 5711/5712/5167R for less than 40k are some of the finest watches you can get at this price, but many other brands are as good or better depending on the price segment and type of watch you want, Greubel Forsey, Lange, RM, Voutilainen, the list is endless really and depends on your tastes and needs, let's say I really like these 4

[Hamish]

Loaded question...in their segment Patek is unparalleled
Compared to independents no but you have to compare apples with apples

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by perpetualman88

Philippe Dufour finishing is the best IMO

My most favourite Independent marques

[ELITEVIDEOGAMES]

Originally Posted by topcat30093

My most favourite Independent marques

Does anyone in this forum even own a Dufour? I have never seen one on a thread in my time here.

[topcat30093]

^^*^^^^^^^
Would be great to know👍🏻


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Hamish

Loaded question...in their segment Patek is unparalleled

IMHO even this sentence is questionable.

[de66]

Limited to watches?

Originally Posted by Robert993

Depends what "superior" means.

Agreed, in a subjective way nearly impossible to answer imo

Originally Posted by brookish

adjective

= better, higher, greater, grander, preferred, prevailing, paramount, surpassing, more advanced, predominant, unrivalled, more extensive, more skilful, more expert, a cut above (informal), streets ahead (informal), running rings around (informal) • " a woman greatly superior to her husband in education"

The adjective can be defined objectively but is nearly always used subjectively as many objective "facts" can be easily aligned to reflect and support subjective goals and opinions.

Originally Posted by Stuxnet

Stradivari and Guaneri for sure.

I would stick to modern stuff and vote Porsche because I can drive that clock.

Older brands? The now defunct VOC, founded around 1602 (dissolved 1799). They actually had a patent/protected licence and minted their own currency. I dont know any brand tpday that can match that! At its heighday universally recognized, acclaimed and feared, they employed 25000-30000 people. Also the first known branded company to feature double accounting/book keeping for tax avoidance.

[1William]

I know this is a Rolex Forum and many times we fall into putting Rolex first but the answer is subjective to many factors. Build, workmanship, innovation, materials, price, etc. My answer is Rolex is the best for me, based on all of the factors listed by others. Not to mention everything dealing with price and the ability to have the watch serviced in a timely manner. I know that many hold up specific models inside a brand as better and I would give you that point. But this is a brand issue not a model issue inside the brand. And as it is each of our own personal opinions there is no overall better brand than Rolex in my opinion. Just my thoughts.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by RUK

Superior can be in different aspects

Movement finishing - Independents/ FPJ/ALS/ others are superior to PP
Value for money in horology - JLC is superior to PP
Value retention and collectability - Patek is superior to others
Daily wear and serviceability - Rolex is superior PP

No argument here, all valid points.

[GB-man]

Yes I think rolex is a superior BRAND, by a long shot. That has little to do with the finishing or movement design etc I also think where patek beats ALS, FPJ, Breguet is BRAND

[KarlS]

Cogitating on this. I think we missing the point. We think brand equates to the best watch. Hence why I mentioned the independents. But as a brand I think there are only 2. Rolex and PP. Most people would know them and I guess in USA more Rolex. If not then I will vote Apple, Coca Cola, MacDonalds etc

[mdtddd2007]

Originally Posted by perpetualman88

Philippe Dufour finishing is the best IMO

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by ELITEVIDEOGAMES

Does anyone in this forum even own a Dufour? I have never seen one on a thread in my time here.

They are virtually unobtainable, sold only to VVIP collectors who are never going to sell them.

[subtona]

Many comments about dufour...

After a quick study, what I find is a total of 3 offerings, two of which do not appeal to me at all, the other is "the simplicity" which to me is absolutely a beautiful balanced and amazing watch... Perfect design

For a visually similar looking offering and I'm guessing price point Patek offers the 5078 minute repeater. in platinum with a case and movement that has much more detail.

To me, the movement of the dufour has the base plate cnc machined and looks similar in construction to a panerai finished eta. The dufour is of course finished much nicer than the panerai (I apologize for the comparison) but at a glance that is what I think of.

And as pointed out, dufour is 34mm and virtually unavailable to the masses... How can it compete here?

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by subtona

Many comments about dufour...

After a quick study, what I find is a total of 3 offerings in his current line up, two of which do not appeal to me at all, the other is "the simplicity" which to me is absolutely a beautiful balanced and amazing watch... For a visually similar looking offering and I'm guessing price point Patek offers the 5078 minute repeater.

The movement of the dufour has the base plate cnc machined and looks similar in construction to a panerai finished eta. The dufour is of course finished much nicer but at a glance that is what I think of.

And as pointed out, dufour is virtually unavailable to the masses... How can it compete here?

I stand corrected but the Simplicity was launched at over EUR 80k which was over 10 years ago for a simple watch

[subtona]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I stand corrected but the Simplicity was launched at over EUR 80k which was over 10 years ago for a simple watch

Not disagreeing w u Karl, I think Patek would be the easy choice

Of course Rolex is Rolex there is reasons more than the name that a ~million watches per year are sold

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by subtona

And as pointed out, dufour is virtually unavailable to the masses... How can it compete here?

By being gorgeous, hand-made, better-finished, and way way way more exclusive, that's how. I'd take a Dufour Simplicity over virtually any current or recent PP in a heartbeat. Same goes for FPJ.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Hollister

By being gorgeous, hand-made, better-finished, and way way way more exclusive, that's how. I'd take a Dufour Simplicity over virtually any current or recent PP in a heartbeat. Same goes for FPJ.

Hand made and CNC

I don't know that the simplicity is current so have you considered the vintage out of production models from both groups?

34mm? I could keep it on a shelf under glass to look at it, for me it would be too small to wear.

This brings us to my earlier point we have to place our own value on what is important to us, Keeping in mind some of your reasons may not be correct as I have written above.

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by subtona

Hand made and CNC

I don't know that the simplicity is current so have you considered the vintage out of production models from both groups?

34mm? I could keep it on a shelf under glass to look at it, for me it would be too small to wear.

This brings us to my earlier point we have to place our own value on what is important to us, Keeping in mind some of your reasons may not be correct as I have written above.

CNC - yes that's how base-plates are made. Mr Dufour did not personally dig for the gold, either. Swiss elves did that for him.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Hollister

CNC - yes that's how base-plates are made. Mr Dufour did not personally dig for the gold, either.

Fair point

[Le Chef]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Philippe or Dubuis?

Simplicity is a spectacular piece.

[el1125]

Originally Posted by ELITEVIDEOGAMES

Does anyone in this forum even own a Dufour? I have never seen one on a thread in my time here.

So true. They aren't even offered for purchase so how can one really say...??

[Hollister]

One thing we can agree on is that we all like different things, and that makes the world a bit more interesting.

[Hollister]

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/vi...s-with-eric-ku

[Le Chef]

I don't own one but met an owner at a dinner party in Milan a few years ago who was wearing one. The host introduced us and also happened to be a watch collector and had a loupe handy. What struck me was the minimalism - no excess decoration or frills - almost zenlike. The loupe revealed an attention to detail that I had not seen before on any watch. Maybe these days Ferrier comes close, but without a side by side it would be hard to say.

[Hollister]

Eric Ku should be called Eric Kuuuuuul!

[KarlS]

That's done it!! I am a heathen...whilst there is something wonderful knowing that a single master worked on that time piece along with the rarity should make me weak at the knees. It doesn't...beautiful yes...34 mm... Even the dial seems to be outsourced at least the PP says enamel!!! OK string me up.......but for me it's the PP it's absolutely gorgeous and forget the minute repeater

[Hollister]

I don't think the dial of simplicity is outsourced.

Edit - I'm wrong again.

[RationalPragmatist]

I think there's some small independents like Philippe Dufour that are slightly superior given their individual artistry and attention to each piece but those are far more difficult to acquire.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Hollister

I don't think the dial of simplicity is outsourced.

Edit - I'm wrong again.

the manufacturer I think is on the Dufour dial but it could have been worse.....waiting for someone to ask why the PP does say Swiss but referring to emails??