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Old 11 April 2018, 05:14 AM   #91
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All Lots Online https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/CH080318
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Old 22 April 2018, 12:23 PM   #92
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Old 23 April 2018, 01:42 AM   #93
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No respons?
Thanks for posting. I think there will be responses when we see what kind of prices these Daytonas fetch at the auction.
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Old 12 May 2018, 03:42 PM   #94
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Today afte the Auctions we will see where the future of 6263 is ;-)
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Old 12 May 2018, 05:47 PM   #95
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Today afte the Auctions we will see where the future of 6263 is ;-)
At least you will see how unique pieces at auctions perform. Auctions are auctions and doesn’t necessarily reflect much on reality.

Best of luck to everyone bidding.
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Old 13 May 2018, 03:27 AM   #96
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Looks like about 6million for the white gold.
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Old 13 May 2018, 03:38 AM   #97
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Also the rest is very strong!
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Old 13 May 2018, 03:50 AM   #98
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Think the sale in many regards weren’t what they hoped for. Great quality sold well but other than that it felt a bit slow. Will be interesting to see how the more normal Daytonas will perform in GWA7 tomorrow.
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Old 13 May 2018, 10:56 AM   #99
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the hammer price of lot 22 6263 black near NOS is much higher than I expected.
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Old 13 May 2018, 10:17 PM   #100
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the hammer price of lot 22 6263 black near NOS is much higher than I expected.
WOW! That's close to a quarter of a million dollars for a "normal" Big Red!? Sure, it's close to NOS and a full set. But still. The market has spoken!
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Old 13 May 2018, 10:22 PM   #101
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WOW! That's close to a quarter of a million dollars for a "normal" Big Red!? Sure, it's close to NOS and a full set. But still. The market has spoken!
And another big red in pretty good condition was passed at Sothebys at 75k. Will be interesting to see the prices from Phillips today and from Christies tomorrow.

Personally I think many sellers were dissapointed yesterday at the theme auction.
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Old 14 May 2018, 12:59 AM   #102
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And another big red in pretty good condition was passed at Sothebys at 75k. Will be interesting to see the prices from Phillips today and from Christies tomorrow.

Personally I think many sellers were dissapointed yesterday at the theme auction.
Interesting. Which Sotheby’s auction? The one in London?

I think it tells us that condition and boxes/papers really sets these higher-end vintage pieces apart, although that’s nothing new, of course.
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Old 14 May 2018, 01:11 AM   #103
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Interesting. Which Sotheby’s auction? The one in London?

I think it tells us that condition and boxes/papers really sets these higher-end vintage pieces apart, although that’s nothing new, of course.
I think NOS in a theme auction makes all the difference. It is not really an indication for anything not NOS in the market. That result is very, very strong. The unsold 6265 was in Geneva this morning. Not great but not terrible.

Let’s see how normal good watches do tonight and tomorrow. For being a theme auction I think results in general was dissapointing for the 32 lots.

Lot 214 tomorrow at Christies is a full set black dial in good condition. It will be interesting to compare that to the NOS from Phillips. I think it will do very well but nowhere near the NOS watch.
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Old 14 May 2018, 03:30 AM   #104
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I think NOS in a theme auction makes all the difference. It is not really an indication for anything not NOS in the market. That result is very, very strong. The unsold 6265 was in Geneva this morning. Not great but not terrible.

Let’s see how normal good watches do tonight and tomorrow. For being a theme auction I think results in general was dissapointing for the 32 lots.

Lot 214 tomorrow at Christies is a full set black dial in good condition. It will be interesting to compare that to the NOS from Phillips. I think it will do very well but nowhere near the NOS watch.
Thanks for all that! Very interesting stuff!
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Old 14 May 2018, 05:44 AM   #105
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There is still one direction...
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Old 15 May 2018, 12:35 AM   #106
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https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...5-details.aspx

125 hammer

Probably reflects the market for mint big red full sets better. Still very, very high.

The awesome 6263PN passed at 480. I personally think the Daytona market is close to the top.
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Old 15 May 2018, 12:49 AM   #107
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125K hammer for a decent 6263 black BR is very high if compare many other manual daytona in this auction. That is what I said previously it is hard to find a perfect black dial.
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Old 15 May 2018, 01:03 AM   #108
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http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...01/lot.78.html

this 6265 full set white stop at 75K.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080118/251

this 6263 full set white hammer at 76K.
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Old 15 May 2018, 01:41 AM   #109
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https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...5-details.aspx

125 hammer

Probably reflects the market for mint big red full sets better. Still very, very high.

The awesome 6263PN passed at 480. I personally think the Daytona market is close to the top.
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http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...01/lot.78.html

this 6265 full set white stop at 75K.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080118/251

this 6263 full set white hammer at 76K.
You always need to go to the final price in an auction, the amount of money that the buyer actually has to pay to get the watch. (I work in the art world, and the "hammer price" is virtually irrelevant. It's the final price that matters, because bidders always factor in the auction house fee, of course.)

So, with those two examples that sold, you have a nice full set black 6263 at $156,000; and a very mediocre full set white 6263 with a written, not punched, guarantee paper at $95000. I'd say those are strong prices.
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Old 15 May 2018, 01:52 AM   #110
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You always need to go to the final price in an auction, the amount of money that the buyer actually has to pay to get the watch. (I work in the art world, and the "hammer price" is virtually irrelevant. It's the final price that matters, because bidders always factor in the auction house fee, of course.)

So, with those two examples that sold, you have a nice full set black 6263 at $156,000; and a very mediocre full set white 6263 with a written, not punched, guarantee paper at $95000. I'd say those are strong prices.
Big reds are for sure very strong at the moment. I just wanted to point out the difference from the NOS example that sold for 243k.
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Old 15 May 2018, 02:04 AM   #111
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Big reds are for sure very strong at the moment. I just wanted to point out the difference from the NOS example that sold for 243k.
Yes, totally agree. I think the whole thing is insane, whether it's prices of NOS examples or run-of-the-mill examples. It's not just that both are so expensive now, it's how quickly they skyrocketed.

You could relatively easily buy a very nice full set 6263 (black or white) for about $60K just two years.
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Old 15 May 2018, 03:26 AM   #112
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Two together
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Old 15 May 2018, 03:50 AM   #113
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Two together
So nice! Keep them safe!
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Old 15 May 2018, 05:19 AM   #114
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Yes, totally agree. I think the whole thing is insane, whether it's prices of NOS examples or run-of-the-mill examples. It's not just that both are so expensive now, it's how quickly they skyrocketed.

You could relatively easily buy a very nice full set 6263 (black or white) for about $60K just two years.
Indeed, glad I got in when I did....
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Old 15 May 2018, 07:03 AM   #115
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You always need to go to the final price in an auction, the amount of money that the buyer actually has to pay to get the watch. (I work in the art world, and the "hammer price" is virtually irrelevant. It's the final price that matters, because bidders always factor in the auction house fee, of course.)

what about estimates? do those, theoretically, include the premium or no?
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Old 15 May 2018, 07:11 AM   #116
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what about estimates? do those, theoretically, include the premium or no?
It does not, just hammer price
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Old 15 May 2018, 07:17 AM   #117
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It does not, just hammer price
ok good to know. then by any reasonable measure the Daytona Ultimatum was underwhelming, at best. i believe many here posted that watches would be selling for 2x the high estimate. when you back out the buyer's premium, most of the 32 lots sold at the lower end of the estimates. and this is supposed to be the creme de la creme of vintage Daytonas. watches featured in books of the most prominent Daytona experts in the world. not impressed at the results whatsoever.
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Old 15 May 2018, 07:22 AM   #118
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ok good to know. then by any reasonable measure the Daytona Ultimatum was underwhelming, at best. i believe many here posted that watches would be selling for 2x the high estimate. when you back out the buyer's premium, most of the 32 lots sold at the lower end of the estimates. and this is supposed to be the creme de la creme of vintage Daytonas. watches featured in books of the most prominent Daytona experts in the world. not impressed at the results whatsoever.
I believe the sale brought $22 million for all lots and some had suggested all lots combined could bring close to $30 million so all in all I guess the total sale was not a crazy high number. I think most lots were pretty damned expensive though... we got accustomed to seeing prices doubling every 12 months in 2016 and 2017. Things are still going up it seems but not at the pace of before which was not sustainable in any case. Some flattening out would be a good thing I think so people can actually determine what things are worth for once in the last 24 months.
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Old 15 May 2018, 07:37 AM   #119
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ok good to know. then by any reasonable measure the Daytona Ultimatum was underwhelming, at best. i believe many here posted that watches would be selling for 2x the high estimate. when you back out the buyer's premium, most of the 32 lots sold at the lower end of the estimates. and this is supposed to be the creme de la creme of vintage Daytonas. watches featured in books of the most prominent Daytona experts in the world. not impressed at the results whatsoever.
Well, you don't take away the premium for the final sale price. That final number IS the sale price.

That said, totally agree that the auction wasn't as crazy as some of the pre-sale estimates. Still, there were only 32 watches sold, so at just over $22 million total, that's an average price of about $700,000 for each watch, a world record for highest average price for any watch auction.
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Old 15 May 2018, 08:06 AM   #120
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I’m not familiar with auction strategy in any facet but I do like to follow them. Just my sense but did it seem as though the high end of the estimates for the Daytona auction were very aggressive? Could they have had lower top estimates and then we would be saying the results were better? There were also so many examples to bid in between thenultimatum and the other auction this weekend.
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