how to spot a fake movement...

[Juggernaut]

Without opening the caseback, is there anyway giveaways to a fake Rolex movement? For example timing the power reserve (36 hours etc.) or listening to the movement, playing with the crown, or maybe the precision of the midnight date change?

Just curious, thanks!

[Rikki]

without openning up ahh tricky look at the calendar numbers if anything on the outsied looks suspicious mostly a fake but openning it up is the only way, but I have seen copies of real movements that are scary then I get the big hammer. Rikki

[kyle L]

Well if the hand doesn't move smoothly and the second hand is staggering, either it's an Oyster-Quartz, a bad fake, or the watch has a problem.

[Colnago]

If you already have a recent Rolex then you have a movement that beats at 28800, it has a very distinctive almost "chiming" tick to it, the speed is critical as well....very few fake movements sound the same or beat as fast.....if you know what they look like and sound like from the outside then you have a good starting point......but unless you open the case you will never know absolutely......

[Juggernaut]

Thanks guys. Good stuff.

[JoeI]

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

[sheldonsmith]

Watch the date wheel movement. Should flip at midnight, not starting at 10:00PM...

Crown rotation mentioned above is also a good one...

-Sheldon

[rkammer]

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

Perhaps we should clarify this a bit. The hands can be moved in either direction with both the Rolex and the fake. The difference is that with the genuine Rolex, the hands will advance time with clockwise rotation of the crown. With the fake, the hands will retard time with clockwise rotation of the crown.

I also believe that this only applies with the newer 3135 movements as well. I've heard that the prior 27J movement works the opposite just like the fakes. Can anyone confirm this?

[tthopp05]

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

Are you sure about that

[rkammer]

Originally Posted by tthopp05

Are you sure about that

See my post immediately prior to yours.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

I don't understand. Please clarify: when I set the hands, they rotate BOTH ways so that I can go in reverse if I go to far. What am I missing here?

[Juggernaut]

OK, sorry...I didn't read rkammer's post. Yes, this makes sense and isn't this reversed in the lady's models?

[JoeI]

[QUOTE=rkammer;1393275]Perhaps we should clarify this a bit. The hands can be moved in either direction with both the Rolex and the fake. The difference is that with the genuine Rolex, the hands will advance time with clockwise rotation of the crown. With the fake, the hands will retard time with clockwise rotation of the crown.

what I was meaning to say, thanks

[Nick1959]

what about the weight. I have always found the fake one lighter. Or is it just I haven't coe across a good fake

[idk01]

There is one way to check without opening the caseback, listen to the sounds the rotor listed as it swings around inside the case, I've noticed on recent fakes the rotor does sounds tinny and not smooth at all depending on the type of movement, as these movements usually use a spacer in the case and do not fit snug there is alto a bit of movement when manual winding and changing date a and time that can be noticed as the dial shifts around as with the hands.

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by rkammer

I also believe that this only applies with the newer 3135 movements as well. I've heard that the prior 27J movement works the opposite just like the fakes. Can anyone confirm this?

Consider it confirmed. Hands rotating CCW or CW is not a sign of the caliber being fake, it is a sign of it being a caliber 30XX or 31XX.

Best,

A

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Without opening the caseback, is there anyway giveaways to a fake Rolex movement? For example timing the power reserve (36 hours etc.) or listening to the movement, playing with the crown, or maybe the precision of the midnight date change?Just curious, thanks!

The correct answer is NO. Like someone taking the movement out of a real Rolex and swapping it with an ETA? When in doubt open it up its the only way to be 100% sure all other methods will leave you still in doubt.

[mlehman]

Whenever I buy on from a person unknown I meet them at a watch smith and he pulls the back cover off it. If they won`t agree to that I do not buy the watch. I cover the cost at the watch smith, works well for me


Mike

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by greekbum

The correct answer is NO. Like someone taking the movement out of a real Rolex and swapping it with an ETA? When in doubt open it up its the only way to be 100% sure all other methods will leave you still in doubt.

I don't think an ETA movement would go in a genuine rolex case...and this is how you can spot a fake without opening the caseback...the stem in the eta would be in a different position, and so the crown on the fake will always give it away...

look at it from the side..the fake crown will always sit lower on the case.

[Shigefaizal]

I wearing DateJust, What I realize 2 hours before midnight, the date started to flip but not completed, flip to half way (date slowly rotate) , 4 minutes to midnight, the date completely/totally flip.

[ekek888]

[QUOTE=JoeI;1403133]

Originally Posted by rkammer

Perhaps we should clarify this a bit. The hands can be moved in either direction with both the Rolex and the fake. The difference is that with the genuine Rolex, the hands will advance time with clockwise rotation of the crown. With the fake, the hands will retard time with clockwise rotation of the crown.

what I was meaning to say, thanks

i think rolex made watches which moved in either directions depending on the year manufactured.

[dmc]

My observations on my GMTIIC M serial number:

Turning the crown CW advances hours or minutes.
In the first position winding the watch is facilitated.

In the second position turning the crown moves the hour hand, one full rotation of the crown advances the hour hand 8 hours. In this position you will also set the calender in a semi quickset fashion. On the 3185 movement the hour hand advances 5-6 hours.

In the third position the second hand is hacked/stopped, and the minute, hour and 24 hr hand are advanced. Finally the 24 hour hand cannot be moved independantly.

On the 3186 movement the 24 hour hand is always rock steady when setting the hour hand. On the earlier movemnet (3185) the 24 hour hand wiggles a bit when you set the hour hand.

I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Merry Christmas

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by mlehman

Whenever I buy on from a person unknown I meet them at a watch smith and he pulls the back cover off it. If they won`t agree to that I do not buy the watch. I cover the cost at the watch smith, works well for me


Mike

I believe this is the best an most reasonable way to determine what is in the case since the movement is the heart of the Rolex you can see if the movement is trashed or worse fake. If you do not have time to do this step you are in for a big wake up call. Mind you I am talking about people like me who are not experienced buyers of high end watches.

Good post Mike.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

I don't think an ETA movement would go in a genuine rolex case...and this is how you can spot a fake without opening the caseback...the stem in the eta would be in a different position, and so the crown on the fake will always give it away...

look at it from the side..the fake crown will always sit lower on the case.

100% correct... eta always sit lower (more posterior) than a Rolex movement. Take a look at some fakes and it becomes very clear.

.... BUT I still recommend examining the movement with your own eyes once you become familiar with Rolex movements.

[NathanielA]

[QUOTE=rkammer;1393275]Perhaps we should clarify this a bit. The hands can be moved in either direction with both the Rolex and the fake. The difference is that with the genuine Rolex, the hands will advance time with clockwise rotation of the crown. With the fake, the hands will retard time with clockwise rotation of the crown.

I'm just a new guy here so what do I know... other than after reading this thread I had to go in, quickly, and check out my 116520 Daytona and make sure it rotated clockwise with a clockwise rotation of the crown.

Interestingly all my other watches, ETA movements and my Glashutte all seem to rotate opposite to Rolex's.

Now I can sleep peacefully tonight. :)

[Nicko]

When I put my Sub up to me ear I hear a chiming sound, almost like a bing bing, it's not always exactly the same, I have done this many times. I believe I can identify a fake movement now by just listening to it.

[Jackxv]

Originally Posted by Shigefaizal

I wearing DateJust, What I realize 2 hours before midnight, the date started to flip but not completed, flip to half way (date slowly rotate) , 4 minutes to midnight, the date completely/totally flip.

The date on a Rolex should change "In the blink of an eye". It could be the spring in the datechange system or a worn out date wheel. Sure it isn't normal.

Reaction on the thread :

Have the caseback opened, bracelet removed and check it with a loupe, don't forget the dial. Also check the bracelet ref and endlinks.
Frankenwatches can be spot on, don't have yourself fooled.

Jack

[f16570]

Save all the bother and buy new from an AD.

[Juggernaut]

Whenever I listen to a Rolex movement, it's a metallic "pinging". I love that sound.

Originally Posted by Nicko

When I put my Sub up to me ear I hear a chiming sound, almost like a bing bing, it's not always exactly the same, I have done this many times. I believe I can identify a fake movement now by just listening to it.

[rkammer]

Originally Posted by f16570

Save all the bother and buy new from an AD.

It's no bother at all when several thousand dollars can be saved.