The Far East (HK) visitors are buying everything

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I for one doubt he had any special pieces in the safe. Why would they not yet have been sold to his special customers? Sounds like another AD story to schmooze a customer.

Quite possibly but it’s nice to see the rich not get their way once in a while, we can dream


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[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by glamorama

Strange that some of you do not believe the story, why would it not be true? It is just an observation.

Checked the prices for a DJ36 in Hong-Kong, 5460GBP equivalent in todays currency according to the price sheet provided here on TRF and in UK retail is 5350 GBP. Assume you get same discount. Deduct VAT (20% in UK?, don't know how much you get back) and although not a spectacular deal it certainly is cheaper.

Not saying the OP lied, just that the conclusion that the tourists are flippers/grey is definitely incorrect. Perhaps the AD heard/assumed it wrong, perhaps the tourists were full of shit. Don't know, but there's no way the tourists spent $150k on easily obtainable watches in HK to make a profit.

The HK retail price for a DJ36 is HK$53,200, which at the current exchange rate is 5380gbp. The UK tax must be in addition to the retail price (i.e. 5350gbp + 20%), otherwise ADs/Rolex would be making less margin in UK than rest of world.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

It would have been much more expensive for them in HK.

The prices are slightly higher in HK and in the UK, they get the VAT back, so they are saving roughly 15-20% against HK prices

Sorry Markus but the maths still don't add up since the above mentioned models sell at approx %20 off through greys....So, where is the spread? No profit in all that effort just to sell at the same discount, mate.

Sure, it would be worth it for steel sports stunners but given the models mentioned it's hogwash.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by glamorama

Strange that some of you do not believe the story, why would it not be true? It is just an observation.

Checked the prices for a DJ36 in Hong-Kong, 5460GBP equivalent in todays currency according to the price sheet provided here on TRF and in UK retail is 5350 GBP. Assume you get same discount. Deduct VAT (20% in UK?, don't know how much you get back) and although not a spectacular deal it certainly is cheaper.

Because we are here and know how much a grey will sell those models for at discount, mate.

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Not saying the OP lied, just that the conclusion that the tourists are flippers/grey is definitely incorrect. Perhaps the AD heard/assumed it wrong, perhaps the tourists were full of shit. Don't know, but there's no way the tourists spent $150k on easily obtainable watches in HK to make a profit.

The HK retail price for a DJ36 is HK$53,200, which at the current exchange rate is 5380gbp. The UK tax must be in addition to the retail price (i.e. 5350gbp + 20%), otherwise ADs/Rolex would be making less margin in UK than rest of world.

I must agree.

[HypeChaser]

They could buy all those watches cheaper in HK.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by HypeChaser

They could buy all those watches cheaper in HK.

Yep...any day of the week.

[Art 1]

I personally know Charles. I have met him many times, talk to him on the phone and email often. He has a room at my house anytime. While I don’t know what buyers intend to do with the watches. I know that Charles is a man of his word. His story is true. I also know who’s contacts Charles has that would shock most of you. Charles could post many more things that I know and he knows. But I know he won’t. His story is true.

[DolphinV8]

Sounds more like money laundering.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I personally know Charles. I have met him many times, talk to him on the phone and email often. He has a room at my house anytime. While I don’t know what buyers intend to do with the watches. I know that Charles is a man of his word. His story is true. I also know who’s contacts Charles has that would shock most of you. Charles could post many more things that I know and he knows. But I know he won’t. His story is true.

He might believe it to be true but it's inaccurate. If it was that easy and profitable, I'd be doing it.

I'm in Hong Kong and work in the watch industry.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I personally know Charles. I have met him many times, talk to him on the phone and email often. He has a room at my house anytime. While I don’t know what buyers intend to do with the watches. I know that Charles is a man of his word. His story is true. I also know who’s contacts Charles has that would shock most of you. Charles could post many more things that I know and he knows. But I know he won’t. His story is true.

That's nice of you to say but no one in the thread has claimed the OP is lying. The controversy is the belief that the tourists are grey sellers/flippers. Just because the story is true doesn't make the conclusion correct.

Again, the easiest and most obvious explanation is that they bought those watches because they wanted the watches...

Or, they're the worst flippers ever because they're going to be taking a massive bath when they try to sell.

[cbalster]

Maybe the buyers just aren't that savvy. Maybe the story of reselling is a cover for having to pay some 关系 in the UK. Who knows. I was in an AD recently and someone else told the AD he was picking out a Rolex because he was closing a deal for someone and couldn't be paid in cash so he would pick out a watch instead to be bought for him. The AD said "That is fine, I am not a fiduciary here!". He wasn't from Asia btw.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

That's nice of you to say but no one in the thread has claimed the OP is lying. The controversy is the belief that the tourists are grey sellers/flippers. Just because the story is true doesn't make the conclusion correct.

Again, the easiest and most obvious explanation is that they bought those watches because they wanted the watches...

Or, they're the worst flippers ever because they're going to be taking a massive bath when they try to sell.

Winner...Winner...Chicken Dinner!

[aparker973]

See a few transactions like this in the dealers around NYC by Asian (likely Chinese?) tourists.

In 2011 or so, I was at Wempe mulling over a particular Lange. A dude rolls up next to me, asks the salesperson to put it aside (same one I was considering), went to Patek section, asked for two pieces, then ended up at Rolex where he must have purchased 7 or 8. At the time, there wasn't the same craze, so he got what he wanted (save the prior generation Daytona perhaps). Meanwhile, those accompanying him had lots of Chanel, LV, etc merchandise bags. This ended up being the first of a number of transactions I noticed over recent years.

I do not know much about the Chinese consumer, but I gather they store their wealth in ways we may not totally "get", but still suit their needs. We see it as more pure 'consumerism' than they may. I suspect this may be driven by political and economic conditions there.

[supernova]

Tax free price for Rolex in the UK makes it one of the cheapest places to buy, especially with weak sterling so works out cheaper by about 10% than HK retail prices. However for TT DJ, if they are flippers, the margins would be quite small for the hassle of selling.

So there is only 2 cases,
1. They or relative/friends really wanted these watches for themselves
2. They are laundering money (which I know is very common way of doing it in the Chinese community, being Chinese myself...)

Even here in Dublin, Chinese tourists hit the luxury department stores and Rolex AD and go berserk shopping mode.

Sure I was in in a luxury department store in Venice a couple months ago, and every sales assistant, from all ethnicities, could speak Mandarin to the Chinese shoppers.

This is all very common in Europe, a lot less in US since there is no tax free and prices for European brands are much higher also.

[HK852GMT]

My tuppence: they may have been going to (back to) HK, but they were unlikely to be HKers. More than likely to be Mainlanders. HKers don’t need to pi$$ around like that as there’s v.little margin in it. Mainlanders will buy ANYTHING in order to sell for anything over purchase price so they can cash out in HKD (basically USD which is ‘safe’).

As one TRFer noted about baby formula, the commodity doesn’t matter - the easily stash-able USD at the end of the journey does.

[wholecz]

What typical hongkong guys would say. Stop blaming everything on the mainlanders. You should question if the post is real or not. You really think mainlanders would buy such amount of djs while dj is a typical slow mover in mainland CHINA? It seems you are living in your own small hongkong world. God bless you poor people.

[Dr. Robert]

And to think years ago Hong Kong was the best place to get a Rolex!

[uniqueMR]

CHINA is killing the market, worldwide.

[HK852GMT]

Originally Posted by wholecz

What typical hongkong guys would say. Stop blaming everything on the mainlanders. You should question if the post is real or not. You really think mainlanders would buy such amount of djs while dj is a typical slow mover in mainland CHINA? It seems you are living in your own small hongkong world. God bless you poor people.

Sir. I won’t get into a mud flinging contest with you about this. My location does not describe my ethnicity, education, income, nor background. If you care to re-read the post carefully, you’ll see that i didn’t assign any blame; merely an opinion. If you look further up the thread you’ll see various terms from other posters like ‘money laundering’. I made no such assertion, only that there is a (very well documented) desire to cash out in USD.

[HK852GMT]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

And to think years ago Hong Kong was the best place to get a Rolex!

For sheer quantity and variety per sq mile (or km if that’s your thing), HK is still excellent. Price however......

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by HK852GMT

Sir. I won’t get into a mud flinging contest with you about this. My location does not describe my ethnicity, education, income, nor background. If you care to re-read the post carefully, you’ll see that i didn’t assign any blame; merely an opinion. If you look further up the thread you’ll see various terms from other posters like ‘money laundering’. I made no such assertion, only that there is a (very well documented) desire to cash out in USD.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Mr. 1 post says, mate. Looks like what my dear ol' Dad used to call a "$hit disturber".

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by HK852GMT

Price however......

Yeah...Depends what you want to buy, though.

[HK852GMT]

Originally Posted by Jake B

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Mr. 1 post says, mate. Looks like what my dear ol' Dad used to call a "$hit disturber".

I’m i newbie here myself, sir. But yes, the one post did raise a tinkle of an alarm.

[SlideRacker]

Only way the money laundering theory holds is if they paid in cash. That’s not clear from OP’s post. Even then, most countries have laws on the books to where large cash transactions must be reported.

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by HK852GMT

For sheer quantity and variety per sq mile (or km if that’s your thing), HK is still excellent. Price however......

Yup, still Rolex/Tudor heaven, especially pre owned.....just bring lots of money, like anywhere else!

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by SlideRacker

Only way the money laundering theory holds is if they paid in cash. That’s not clear from OP’s post.

Don't know if UK shops accept WeChat Pay, AliPay, or UnionPay, but if they do Mainland shoppers can shop overseas in RMB, then theoretically re-sell whatever they buy and collect USD.

It's not money laundering, but it's a way to get RMB out of China. For context, there are capital controls in China where Mainland Chinese cannot take more than US$50,000 per year out of China. This creates an entire grey/black industry on how to get RMB out of China, one of which I guess could be in the purchase/re-sale of watches. Question is, is the 10-25% loss on re-sale of a DJ/DD in the secondary market in HK/China or where ever worth it given there are cheaper ways to get around China's capital controls.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Jake B

Sorry Markus but the maths still don't add up since the above mentioned models sell at approx %20 off through greys....So, where is the spread? No profit in all that effort just to sell at the same discount, mate.

Sure, it would be worth it for steel sports stunners but given the models mentioned it's hogwash.

And where do the HK Grey’s get their Rolex watches from?
From European Ads, with discounts and tax refunded.

The OP did not say, if the tourists have received a discount for their 150k purchase, which is very likely.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by HK852GMT

I’m i newbie here myself, sir. But yes, the one post did raise a tinkle of an alarm.

You seem like a reasonable guy

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

And where do the HK Grey’s get their Rolex watches from?
From European Ads, with discounts and tax refunded.

The OP did not say, if the tourists have received a discount for their 150k purchase, which is very likely.

Generally speaking, greys do not source their stock a few at a time bought by couples on little shopping trips like that.....Not for items that cannot turn a worthwhile profit like lady Datejusts after exchange, travel expenses, tax refunds, Markus. You must realise how discounted greys sell those for here already, right?

I would agree if we start to speak about Daytonas, Subs etc.

[peterskinner]

So some people went into a Rolex store and bought quite a few watches; what has their ethnicity got to do with anything? Are these watches reserved for particular ethnic groups? The tale has a slightly unpleasant feel to it...and I live in the UK.
You can buy what you want, regardless of where you call home.