Kinda Personal- Affordable Vs Struggle To Obtain

[Lordofrolex]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I forgot the question

lol

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by myc ritz

If a 5167 is .5% of your annual income, you make $3,000,000 a year. No need to worry about upgrading to a $25k watch!

Check your math lol

[Alford78]

Again, thanks for the conversation! I honestly figured there would be more who struggle to own but that still could be the case as they arent required to post.

I tried to use myself as an example but while doing so kind of made it seem like I fell into that group which was not the purpose. It was to just show the personality trait which I've dealt with for years and it came close to getting me into trouble when I was much much younger.

Today my spending habits for my "wants/must haves" is in check but the trait will always be there. Having the fastest car, the best rookie cards, best watches, best home theater, etc.... is still there but the buying habit is smarter; although, I did lose a little on the sale of my GTR but it worked out as if it cost me $200/mo to own so well cheaper than any lease is how I looked at it.

[myc ritz]

$3,000,000.00 x .5% (.005) = $15,000.00 (low estimate for a preowned 5167). Right?

[myc ritz]

So to answer your question, I think that many owners/collectors of $25K watches save and/or the purchase is meaningful in relation to disposable income. The collectors I know that are purchasing $75k+ pieces (which is very few) all are all extremely wealthy and it doesn't matter quite as much. I'm sure it varies greatly.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by lapince

Yeah, apart from Bernie Madoff with his 15%, we all know how that finished, never heard of any investments bringing in 10% nowadays



16-19%?????? I also buy properties that I put on rent, in Paris it's a miracle if I get something which brings 4%, in Odessa it's 8-10%, never heard of properties bringing those returns, I am very surprised

I live in the Southeastern part of the US and most all rental property is listed for sale in the 10-12% annual rate but there are deals to be had like with anything else. I had to do a 1031 some 5-6 years ago and had to transfer some cash into property. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have gotten into real estate but now there are days when I wish I didn't have a single piece of property and weeks when I don't have enough lol.

If really want to make money in real estate then trailer parks bring in well over 20% but also have to deal with that type of person (or hire a property manager ;-).

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by myc ritz

$3,000,000.00 x .5% (.005) = $15,000.00 (low estimate for a preowned 5167). Right?

Yes. Sorry that is correct. I wasn't using the same numbers but roughly correct and it changes my numbers. Guess doing math at 2am on top of other things turned ugly.

So that does change my numbers

[artschool]

IMO you should only spend what you find down the back of your couch.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Today my spending habits for my "wants/must haves" is in check but the trait will always be there. Having the fastest car, the best rookie cards, best watches, best home theater, etc.... is still there but the buying habit is smarter; although, I did lose a little on the sale of my GTR but it worked out as if it cost me $200/mo to own so well cheaper than any lease is how I looked at it.

You may wish to really look into why you feel this need to have what you perceive as the "best" watch, car, etc. By this I mean seeing some sort of professional counselor or therapist, because it seems like it prevents you from enjoying great luxury items. Most of us here have been caught up in "upgrading" and flipping so we all understand the "itch," but this is more than a typical itch. When I got the itch, all of a sudden the Hamilton watch I had was no longer good enough and I flipped it for a Glashutte Original and an IWC. Then those watches weren't good enough and I moved on to AP, VC, and Panerai. And soon I was wondering (maybe like you) how I could pull off a Nautilus. But after awhile I found that despite liking many of the more expensive watches, I realized that I wasn't any happier wearing something worth $10k over wearing something worth $2k. Life goes on with its ups and downs no matter what watch is on your wrist. A watch won't make my work, life or vacation any better, but it does come along for the ride.

I am not a mental health professional and I do not know you at all other than what you write here, but what you describe as the "OCD" seems to be the real question/problem. It may be some deep seeded need for approval and/or proving that you've "won." Maybe you try to get this need met by having the "best" home theater system, the "best" car, and the "best" collectibles. So now that watches are the focus of attention, you may feel that everyone has a Sub (which is partially true), and that you will only feel like you've made it when you have a Patek Perpetual Calendar on your wrist. But even if you do, you'll soon realize that no material object really meets these types of needs, or the needs would not keep resurfacing.

I certainly don't have all of the answers, but from my own life and my own experiences I've found that a little outside help from time to time can allow you to see things from a slightly different, and often better perspective.

[skippy1416]

My income/net worth is almost certainly very modest compared to most Patek owners (my Patek is modest as well). I am an IT employee in a large institution with a mortgage and a kid in grade school. I do have the benefit/security of a generous defined benefit pension plan. I shouldn't have the watches that I do but it is important to me and I have found a way. I am also fortunate to have an understanding wife. I can't really justify my collection aside from saying that it is important to me and I appreciate it. I borrowed for my first Patek and I don't regret it. Overall we aren't extravagant people and we carry no debt other than the mortgage which will be paid in a couple of years. When the house is paid off I do plan to buy my grail and I will likely finance a significant chunk of it. That watch will cost me several months of salary. I actually like that acquiring these watches hurts a bit and involves compromises - for me it adds to the appreciation.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by srvrf

You may wish to really look into why you feel this need to have what you perceive as the "best" watch, car, etc. By this I mean seeing some sort of professional counselor or therapist, because it seems like it prevents you from enjoying great luxury items. Most of us here have been caught up in "upgrading" and flipping so we all understand the "itch," but this is more than a typical itch. When I got the itch, all of a sudden the Hamilton watch I had was no longer good enough and I flipped it for a Glashutte Original and an IWC. Then those watches weren't good enough and I moved on to AP, VC, and Panerai. And soon I was wondering (maybe like you) how I could pull off a Nautilus. But after awhile I found that despite liking many of the more expensive watches, I realized that I wasn't any happier wearing something worth $10k over wearing something worth $2k. Life goes on with its ups and downs no matter what watch is on your wrist. A watch won't make my work, life or vacation any better, but it does come along for the ride.

I am not a mental health professional and I do not know you at all other than what you write here, but what you describe as the "OCD" seems to be the real question/problem. It may be some deep seeded need for approval and/or proving that you've "won." Maybe you try to get this need met by having the "best" home theater system, the "best" car, and the "best" collectibles. So now that watches are the focus of attention, you may feel that everyone has a Sub (which is partially true), and that you will only feel like you've made it when you have a Patek Perpetual Calendar on your wrist. But even if you do, you'll soon realize that no material object really meets these types of needs, or the needs would not keep resurfacing.

I certainly don't have all of the answers, but from my own life and my own experiences I've found that a little outside help from time to time can allow you to see things from a slightly different, and often better perspective.

It may sound stupid but it's quite the opposite when talking about approval, being better than, or showing off so to speak. No one I know has any knowledge of watches it's just their beauty I'm drawn to. And it's not all expensive watches, for example I wouldn't wear 90% of the APs, RMs, VCs, etc... It's just the overall design plus the complications that draw me to them much like all the others who admire the 5070, 3970, etc... Much of it is the actual case design I "think". If you look at the watches on my radar that are cheaper (JLC Master Control, Fleurier Tonda, and Batman) they all have traits that are far different than the opposition.

When you talk home theater I would imagine anyone would be awe inspired once walking into mine but they wouldn't have a clue as to its costs or the brands which I meticulously researched and listened to before finally hearing what soothed my ears. And I hand built it (1250sqft) from the ground up so it wasn't just a purchase. It was a year long project which required expert drawings from an acoustical engineer that detailed all of the surfaces that needed to be used in each location. I even built the cabinets for the subwoofers.

The fastest car definitely wasn't to show off or I would have bought a Porsche or Lamborghini instead of the GTR. It was a performance decision alone which satisfied the need for speed adrenaline rush. Then came three children so it wasn't worth keeping; although, when they are driving themselves I'll fill that void again.

With spors cards and memorabilia of course I had to have the Jordan Fleer rookie. Every collector I've ever met has admired that Grail. The same can be said for the Mantle and Maris rookies. I don't have any friends that collect so that wasn't "my collection is better than yours" so to speak. It's just that I had the "extra" money to acquire them so why wouldn't I type of deal.

Knives. Once owning a custom hollow ground pocket knife it's kind of hard to go back to purchasing production pieces; although, I do have a handful that I still enjoy to carry. The same goes for kitchen knives. A well made custom kitchen knife feels and performs completely different than ANY off the shelf model no matter how expensive it is. I'll take my $350 paring knife over any model priced well above it and the same goes for some of my chef's knives which I won't even mention the price lol.

Fishing tackle fits right in with knives, automobiles, and home theater when it comes to performance. A custom rod and reel is leaps and bounds better than 90% of the production models and one wouldn't realize the difference until they actually experienced it for themselves. Don't get me wrong there are some really great rods and reels on the market and they suite the majority of the population only because they don't realize how much of a difference there is between the two. This may be the only area that I have friends that share the same hobby so the "mine is better than yours" could apply but common sense prevails and says otherwise. My cousin will intentionally come with his tackle box only when we go fishing way he can use my gear. He used to make fun of me for spending thousands on a rod but after his first cast he completely understood. I would always tell him what was on the bottom of the lake and where to cast and to feel for the rock, log, stump, etc... and he would just play along. He thought I was full of BS when I would tell him where and why to cast in certain spots. But after he used one of my rigs one day it was like a light bulb went off in his head and he then understood that I had been telling him that stuff because I could feel EVERY little thing.

I know I get the OCD from my mother but it's more about personal enjoyment/admiring and self satisfaction than anything. I go the extra mile with everything but enjoy it at the same time for the most part. Like equalizing a sound system, most would think a system sounds good but to a trained ear most sound awful and defeating that is a pleasure with the right resources (microphone, acoustic panels, placement). The same with a knife edge, just because it can slice a piece of paper most say it's good enough but I'll go the extra mile and put a secondary bevel on it with a professional sharpener (I'm not good enough to use wet stones yet for fine adjustments mainly seen under a loupe). I'm sure it's not healthy in some opinions but there really isn't any treatment for taking everything to the extreme especially when it normally is performance and appearance related. I haven't even brought up clothing lol. Handmade shoes and clothes not only look better but also function and feel better if made correctly.

I just don't know if owning many fine dress watches would satisfy my OCD or even be necessary. That's why I started his thread in the first place. For people that really loved the higher end pieces but would take 1,2, or even three years to save for one. Being a collector in general multiples have always been a necessity but this is completely different. One watch that has a calendar and yet another that has the same complication seems redundant and could just end up setting in a watch box. I don't want to be a flipper continuously but can understand flipping until reach a certain point if didn't want to save and save until could just purchase that piece. So, for those that fit into the category of having to save and save for that perpetual calendar, do you still lust for other watches in that same price range with the same or similar complications or does it simply fill that spot in your collection?

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by skippy1416

My income/net worth is almost certainly very modest compared to most Patek owners (my Patek is modest as well). I am an IT employee in a large institution with a mortgage and a kid in grade school. I do have the benefit/security of a generous defined benefit pension plan. I shouldn't have the watches that I do but it is important to me and I have found a way. I am also fortunate to have an understanding wife. I can't really justify my collection aside from saying that it is important to me and I appreciate it. I borrowed for my first Patek and I don't regret it. Overall we aren't extravagant people and we carry no debt other than the mortgage which will be paid in a couple of years. When the house is paid off I do plan to buy my grail and I will likely finance a significant chunk of it. That watch will cost me several months of salary. I actually like that acquiring these watches hurts a bit and involves compromises - for me it adds to the appreciation.

Congrats! And thank you for speaking up as I would imagine there are more people like you than would like to admit. But like you said if it's important to you and not taking away from your family then go after it!

[PatekSF]

Very simple: If I like it and can afford it I buy it ... In that order.

[Star Ferry]

My perspective is that sometimes expectations need to be lowered. If someone makes $200k per year and wants a complicated $100k+ watch...it's natural to covet expensive things, but it's not worth saving for years to buy one.

High end watches are intended for wealthy buyers -- for whom the purchase price is fully disposable. They're not worth buying if it causes hardship or struggle.

[srvrf]

The approval doesn't come from others, but rather from within. My comments were merely to suggest that without unlimited funds, it may be helpful to examine why everything you care about has to be "the best." That is all.


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[Alford78]

Originally Posted by srvrf

The approval doesn't come from others, but rather from within. My comments were merely to suggest that without unlimited funds, it may be helpful to examine why everything you care about has to be "the best." That is all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh. I completely understand and only trying to explain it. Nothing more or less. :toast

[bdex75]

I will start by saying that I do not even own a PP. I am with you though, a RG PP dress watch is one that I will own at some point in my life.

We live in middle America, above average income but not anywhere close to 7 figures, mortgage, reluctant landlords (got stuck with a house in Chicago in 2009), my wife does not work outside of the home. 2 kids in middle school. We do not struggle but I put a lot of $ into retirement accounts and stock purchase plans etc. A lot of my income goes away before I ever see it in the direct deposit.

I would consider $25,000 a watch purchase I will likely make one time (maybe 2) towards retirement. I am 41 so a little while to go. The second would be if I sold/liquidated several pieces to acquire a PM Grail.

I save about $2000 a quarter into my "watch fund". Comes right out of my paycheck and into a mutual fund account. So without any additional funds a $25,000 watch would require me to save for about 3 years.

I find too much enjoyment in pieces that I can afford after a couple or few quarters to save for that long. My lack of self control and lack of a strong desire for a more expensive piece like a PP at the moment has me grabbing for the more mid level watches.

For example i am #1 on my AD list for s Black Bay bronze. I have the funds in the watch fund ready to go. If another quarterly payout hits my MF account before the bronze gets here I may be tempted to go for a nice 16600 Seadweller. As I have been wanting a more vintage Rolex diver to fill that hole in my collection. They will make more bronze BB if I miss the first one. Any my ad and I are on the same page.


If it is the BB bronze (which I hear may be next week) then I will start saving again and that will likely be to purchase a 36mm black bay for my dad as he is getting ready to retire very soon and I want a proper gift.

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[odeon]

There are too many investment ideas here.
The first, owning a high-end watch must be beyond the requirements of your life. When I considered to buy a Patek, I had earned the first million dollars in my life. The ratio was around 3% for me. But I was only 24 at that time.
:)
The second, the rent revenue of an immovable should be 10% per annum at least. Increasing in its value is much more important than rental capabilities.

[427_Monster]

Not sure about the question...
I'm currently saving to get a 5711. I still have a long way to go, but I wouldn't borrow money to buy any luxury item.

[blakeegan]

Gag.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by odeon

There are too many investment ideas here.
The first, owning a high-end watch must be beyond the requirements of your life. When I considered to buy a Patek, I had earned the first million dollars in my life. The ratio was around 3% for me. But I was only 24 at that time.
:)
The second, the rent revenue of an immovable should be 10% per annum at least. Increasing in its value is much more important than rental capabilities.

How do you go about the later? Tax laws require a depreciation factor which makes it impossible for me to understand how the rental can continue to increase in value. I could understand buying a property then the zoning or the location boomed with construction but that doesn't normally just happen overnight. I owned a property that zoning caused it to more than quadruple in value but I had owned it throughout a several year period of depreciation as well. I used the 1031 to avoid taxes.

I have continuously upgraded all of my property which in theory makes them worth more at the next appraisal but on taxes those expenses to increase the value are pretty much just deductions. But the way I see it is if they do appraise higher when time to sell another 1031 will be required to avoid taxes yet again.

[Alford78]

I think I'm still on the same path (saving for 2-3 years) for a nice 5070 or calendar after the thread. It won't take away from any of my other hobbies but will require me not to spend on mid level watches during that time which I think is completely doable.