Zeitwerk HG Lumen Bundle

[Gotwire]

What are peoples thoughts on buying the 1815 Tourbillon to get the Zeitwerk HG Lumen allocation? (The new Lange bundle) Buying a $180k watch to get a $145k watch albeit limited at 200. Secondary market soft on 1815 Tourbillon. Even brand new.

Thanks!

[fullofboats]

Were you actually offered this bundle?

I saw the HG lumen Zeitwerk. Most beautiful and impressive watch I’ve ever seen with my own eyes. I’d do it. Resell when one hits the market will be well over double list is my guess

[Gotwire]

Yes offered the bundle.

[raclaims]

I'm not as bullish on the new lumen personally...very few people seem to really love the Zeitwerk. If you love the 1815 as well, then it's a no brainer...if you are doing it to try to make a profit I think there are better options out there.

[Gotwire]

Not for profit. I love the HG Lumen. The 1815 Tourbillon is just the “cheapest” bundle piece. I have no interest in any of the bundle pieces.

[fullofboats]

I think the zeitwerk is worth +300k alone. This bundle is like a free 1815 tourbillon in my opinion. We’re seeing lumen datos being auctioned for +300k and lumen L1 going for 200-250k. The Zeitwerk is the perfect watch for lumen - when the hours change it’s just amazing. Add in HG and I think it’ll be the most expensive lumen on market.

[raclaims]

I mean, not that long ago I paid a small premium over msrp for my dato lumen...not 100% convinced these prices are here to stay for these especially as you know they will release more and more new lumens to catch on the craze.

I don't like the 1815 tourb personally...but hey if you love the HG and need this piece in your life def go for it...I mean I've done similar moves in the past but if you really knew deep down it was right you wouldn't have posted here first most likely.

Either way best of luck and if you get it I hope to see pix soon!

[HMHM]

From what I've heard, the initial hype for the Lumen has dissipated gradually since its launch... I'm sure its still difficult to get since ALS will control its production, but I think a smaller bundle may work out later on... that's what I feel. It's a cool watch and if you like the watch and the 1815 as weak, good luck!

[Gotwire]

Starting to see more 1815 Tourbillon with on request status and 2022 production on Chrono 24. The beginning of the bundle flip perhaps.

[vinniebabarooch]

Originally Posted by Gotwire

Starting to see more 1815 Tourbillon with on request status and 2022 production on Chrono 24. The beginning of the bundle flip perhaps.

I would highly doubt that anyone has taken delivery of the lumen yet unless they are higher VIP types and which they wouldn’t have had to bundle.
But I would say if your given the opportunity you should do it, she’s a beauty.

[WatchEater666]

I don’t think it’s a good idea. Richemont goes back on what they say. I was told I would get a steel Odysseus with my Zeitwerk order and never got anything.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I don’t think it’s a good idea. Richemont goes back on what they say. I was told I would get a steel Odysseus with my Zeitwerk order and never got anything.

Ouch, sorry to hear that but yes, never trust Richemont not to do you dirty.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Ouch, sorry to hear that but yes, never trust Richemont not to do you dirty.

I should clarify. I have been told it will be a few years more but I’m not sure that means I’ll actually get an allocation.

[joli160]

You just won the jackpot, do the deal

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Gotwire

Yes offered the bundle.

By which boutique?

[cbalster]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I think the zeitwerk is worth +300k alone. This bundle is like a free 1815 tourbillon in my opinion. We’re seeing lumen datos being auctioned for +300k and lumen L1 going for 200-250k. The Zeitwerk is the perfect watch for lumen - when the hours change it’s just amazing. Add in HG and I think it’ll be the most expensive lumen on market.

I don't think it's quite so easy for an end seller to realize net proceeds anywhere near these prices achieved at Philips Geneva auction once a year.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I think the zeitwerk is worth +300k alone. This bundle is like a free 1815 tourbillon in my opinion. We’re seeing lumen datos being auctioned for +300k and lumen L1 going for 200-250k. The Zeitwerk is the perfect watch for lumen - when the hours change it’s just amazing. Add in HG and I think it’ll be the most expensive lumen on market.

You think the new ZW Lumen will command a higher price on the secondary than the original ZW Luminous or just more than the three Lumens?

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by cbalster

I don't think it's quite so easy for an end seller to realize net proceeds anywhere near these prices achieved at Philips Geneva auction once a year.

You’re right. The proceeds would be 25% less and would take probably 3-6 months to sell if auctioned. But at current auction prices I think the bundle mentioned is attractive.

Originally Posted by Russell996

You think the new ZW Lumen will command a higher price on the secondary than the original ZW Luminous or just more than the three Lumens?

I think lumen Zeitwerks are the coolest / most desirable lumen among all the ALS references. Between the original platinum and HG my guess is the HG will be more desirable. Anything HG seems to command a hefty premium to platinum. A 101.050 sold for near 200k recently. It was 20 piece limited, but the premium to any other L1 (other than steel) is several times

[Gotwire]

What I find bizarre about the bundle is it has nothing to do with a dollar amount. They have a small list of watches eligible to bundle. So let’s say you wanted a Triple Split and Lange 1 QP which total more than 1815 Tourbillon it doesn’t count.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

You’re right. The proceeds would be 25% less and would take probably 3-6 months to sell if auctioned. But at current auction prices I think the bundle mentioned is attractive.

I don’t think that was the posters point. The point is that the current auction prices don’t represent the actual market and you, or I or anyone here will not be able to achieve anywhere near those prices ourselves. And it has nothing to do with seller or buyer premiums or other auction costs. It’s because those prices you see are not the market.

[flyboyx999]

If you like the 1815 tourbillon and the HG Lume then go for it, as long as funds are allowed. Most people either don’t have the funds or don’t get an option like the OP

[GreenLantern]

The bundle I was offered is two Tourbillon pieces minimum. And I have at least $1m in spend.

So, yeah, clearly they don't love me.

On that basis, I'd take this if you are morally Ok with bundling like this.

I'm opposed to it and think it distorts the brand.

[PBJ1925]

I'd do that deal under the assumption you really want that Lumen. On a lesser scale, if someone asked me to buy a TT DJ that comes with a guaranteed Blue SkyD count me in.

[Gotwire]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The bundle I was offered is two Tourbillon pieces minimum. And I have at least $1m in spend.

So, yeah, clearly they don't love me.

On that basis, I'd take this if you are morally Ok with bundling like this.

I'm opposed to it and think it distorts the brand.

I don’t get the Tourbillon push to get the HG Lumen? Weird.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

I don’t think that was the posters point. The point is that the current auction prices don’t represent the actual market and you, or I or anyone here will not be able to achieve anywhere near those prices ourselves. And it has nothing to do with seller or buyer premiums or other auction costs. It’s because those prices you see are not the market.

I disagree. Auction sellers are ppl like you and me so ppl did realise the prices mentioned. Also, I only see lumens sold at auction so auction results are the only market.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The bundle I was offered is two Tourbillon pieces minimum. And I have at least $1m in spend.

So, yeah, clearly they don't love me.

On that basis, I'd take this if you are morally Ok with bundling like this.

I'm opposed to it and think it distorts the brand.

There is no guarantee they won’t discard you when convenient either. Look at how they treated guy who have been collecting Lange for decades. Back when buying a Lange was a guaranteed way to lose 70% of what you paid too. Mind blowing how they are treating their collectors including guys like you.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I disagree. Auction sellers are ppl like you and me so ppl did realise the prices mentioned. Also, I only see lumens sold at auction so auction results are the only market.

The majority of sales are certainly not happening at auctions - I know of 3 Phantoms sold in the last 24 months and of multiple Dato Lumens sold at nothing like the auction result figures (none of these sales were at auction). I can't explain the auction futures since they make no sense, but they do include a 20-25% buyers premium so the sellers certainly aren't realising the full figure. I do receive multiple requests (unwanted) on IG for some of my pieces but I can guarantee you the offers are not even in the ballpark of the auction results.

[Gotwire]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I don’t think it’s a good idea. Richemont goes back on what they say. I was told I would get a steel Odysseus with my Zeitwerk order and never got anything.

Did they even put you on the list or just outright no from boutique?

[Gotwire]

Originally Posted by Russell996

The majority of sales are certainly not happening at auctions - I know of 3 Phantoms sold in the last 24 months and of multiple Dato Lumens sold at nothing like the auction result figures (none of these sales were at auction). I can't explain the auction futures since they make no sense, but they do include a 20-25% buyers premium so the sellers certainly aren't realising the full figure. I do receive multiple requests (unwanted) on IG for some of my pieces but I can guarantee you the offers are not even in the ballpark of the auction results.

I agree. Auction prices do not reflect the market. And not the reason I would buy the HG Lumen. My hesitation is getting an 1815 Tourbillon I have no interest in to make it happen. Which sells for half MSRP on the secondary market.

But Lange is set on Tourbillon purchases for this bundle as others mentioned as well. I offered to buy a Triple Split AND Lange 1 QP and was told they don’t count. Lol.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I disagree. Auction sellers are ppl like you and me so ppl did realise the prices mentioned. Also, I only see lumens sold at auction so auction results are the only market.

We can agree to disagree. The auction market has long been disconnected from reality. Sure, could you give Phillips your Lumen and hit the jackpot because of these disconnected prices? Yes. But that one sale is not the market.