Rolex submariner 16613 T validation

[MinMay]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

Out of curiosity with the bezel insert, I am trying to better understand for myself what the differences are that lead one to believe that an insert is aftermarket. I found this one in the forums for comparison:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ht=16613+bezel

In looking at that insert (which is claimed to be authentic) and comparing it to mine, I honestly can't really tell a difference. The "4" on the "40" looks like it could be slightly different...maybe the top has a longer flatter edge than mine....or maybe i'm just forcing myself to find a difference.

Can anyone chime in to clarify a little more as for what I should be looking at to better decipher the difference between authentic and aftermarket?

I compared your insert with others out there, and your is not authentic. The spacing is off as well. Some of the other numbers look different.

Another option is to send it to RSC and have them change authentic parts. You'll have a better peace of mind sending it to Rolex instead.

For the seller to claimed 100%, I question his reputation as a seller now. And wonder if the whole movement is authentic as well.

Send your finding to him...

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by MinMay

I compared your insert with others out there, and your is not authentic. The spacing is off as well. Some of the other numbers look different.

Another option is to send it to RSC and have them change authentic parts. You'll have a better peace of mind sending it to Rolex instead.

For the seller to claimed 100%, I question his reputation as a seller now. And wonder if the whole movement is authentic as well.

Send your finding to him...

Interesting. I'll get up with him now. Before he had switched the bezel insert over to the current one, I had asked if the watch was 100% genuine, and even brought up the fact that I've seen some of these watches listed with aftermarket inserts, and basically that I didn't want that. He responded with "Yes it 100% original and we just fully overhauled it to do a complete service".

Later, after receiving the watch with the switched insert, I took it to the local AD to get it just looked over and fitted. The AD said everything looked good on the outside...only mentioned things like still sending it off to rolex to inspect the inside, update the datewheel (not as white as a new one), and to check to make sure that it's waterproof. I got up with vince again and chatted about my visit to the AD, and he yet again told me "We checked out the watch and confirmed it was recently serviced, all original and waterproof".

So he has told me that it's all original, before and after the insert change.

I'll be in contact with him and post back here with details.

[MinMay]

The AD person might not have the expertise in authenticating Rolex in detail.
Why did he switch the bezel in the first place?

[tommy91]

It's not that big of a deal, it's only a bezel insert if your really not happy send it back. If your happy just get a new original insert I am sure vince would be more than happy to assist you....

[thesharkfactor]

Genuine watch, aftermarket/replica insert.

Look at pictures of a genuine insert and pay close attention to the pip/pearl.. you can clearly see the quality in the genuine pip, it will be like a white bead encased in glass, not just a flat matt dot like the one in your watch.

Also, your date wheel does not need updating, it should be the nice creamy coffee flavour that it is.. i'm annoyed they just went with pure white on the later ceramic TT models.. cream is so much better!! Lastly, take that horrid green sticker off before you catch something from it, that is disgusting, poor show on the seller for passing it on like that.

FYI.. you are missing a (trinket) Submariner anchor to make up a full set.

Looks like nice clean example.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

Interesting. I'll get up with him now. Before he had switched the bezel insert over to the current one, I had asked if the watch was 100% genuine, and even brought up the fact that I've seen some of these watches listed with aftermarket inserts, and basically that I didn't want that. He responded with "Yes it 100% original and we just fully overhauled it to do a complete service".

Later, after receiving the watch with the switched insert, I took it to the local AD to get it just looked over and fitted. The AD said everything looked good on the outside...only mentioned things like still sending it off to rolex to inspect the inside, update the datewheel (not as white as a new one), and to check to make sure that it's waterproof. I got up with vince again and chatted about my visit to the AD, and he yet again told me "We checked out the watch and confirmed it was recently serviced, all original and waterproof".

So he has told me that it's all original, before and after the insert change.

I'll be in contact with him and post back here with details.

Keep in mind this watch is over 20 years old and discontinued. Many employees at an AD were in diapers when the watch was made and likely aren't keen to be able to spot an aftermarket bezel insert. You need to be dealing with an experienced watchmaker, not an AD who is primarily interested in selling new Rolex pieces.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

Thanks, i'll get in touch with him. Also, is there a place in these forums where I can find shops near me that can authenticate the watch? I would rather be able to take the watch to someone opposed to shipping it off. Not that i'm not shipping savvy, but shipping things like this feels a little different to me...if that makes sense.

Ask Rik. He has been a watchmaker for 30 odd years, these guys all know each other.

[J_1964]

Please get rid of that sticker, Yuk!

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by MinMay

The AD person might not have the expertise in authenticating Rolex in detail.
Why did he switch the bezel in the first place?

And i'm sure you're right. But it was the person that i'd rather take it to for fitting it and I also figured it couldn't hurt to have him look it over just to see if there were any obvious errors.

The bezel was switched because we had chatted about the black insert with silver numbers and tick marks (I posted a link a little while back for the original listing) and it had come up that I like the black inserts with gold numbers and tick marks. Vince then told me that he probably had one that he could swap on if I wished, so we proceeded with that route.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by tommy91

It's not that big of a deal, it's only a bezel insert if your really not happy send it back. If your happy just get a new original insert I am sure vince would be more than happy to assist you....

I like the watch for sure, i'm just the guy that likes to have everything original. I'll have it all worked out in one way or another.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

Genuine watch, aftermarket/replica insert.

Look at pictures of a genuine insert and pay close attention to the pip/pearl.. you can clearly see the quality in the genuine pip, it will be like a white bead encased in glass, not just a flat matt dot like the one in your watch.

Also, your date wheel does not need updating, it should be the nice creamy coffee flavour that it is.. i'm annoyed they just went with pure white on the later ceramic TT models.. cream is so much better!! Lastly, take that horrid green sticker off before you catch something from it, that is disgusting, poor show on the seller for passing it on like that.

FYI.. you are missing a (trinket) Submariner anchor to make up a full set.

Looks like nice clean example.

The more that it's mentioned, the more that I can see it. I also agree with the date wheel...I like the way that it looks, but it was just something that the AD had brought up. It being an older watch, I like the little bit of age on the wheel. And the sticker is coming off for sure...don't have to worry about that ;)

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Keep in mind this watch is over 20 years old and discontinued. Many employees at an AD were in diapers when the watch was made and likely aren't keen to be able to spot an aftermarket bezel insert. You need to be dealing with an experienced watchmaker, not an AD who is primarily interested in selling new Rolex pieces.

And I know that the AD probably wouldn't be able to help much, but I figured it couldn't hurt to at least look at it at the same time of getting it fitted.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Ask Rik. He has been a watchmaker for 30 odd years, these guys all know each other.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by J_1964

Please get rid of that sticker, Yuk!

It's coming off, don't worry

[Glifahrenheitcam]

The response from vince is as follows:

" I do not believe that to be aftermarket but I don’t know how anyone can tell from a picture. The obvious tell from the aftermarket ones is the lack of ribs on the underside and that one did have ribs "

[thesharkfactor]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

I also agree with the date wheel...I like the way that it looks, but it was just something that the AD had brought up. It being an older watch, I like the little bit of age on the wheel.

The AD brought this up (aged/creamy date wheel)? The date wheel was creamy when new, it is supposed to be, this is not patina. Further evidence that the person whom examined the watch at your AD is lacking in knowledge of the model.

Further to your most recent post, a fake insert can be noted from a picture no bother..

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

The response from vince is as follows:

" I do not believe that to be aftermarket but I don’t know how anyone can tell from a picture. The obvious tell from the aftermarket ones is the lack of ribs on the underside and that one did have ribs "

Tell him the pip is wrong. A google search will show the difference. It is your watch, but if were me that insert would get tossed in the trash and replaced with a genuine one from a watchmaker with Rolex parts account.

[tommy91]

Originally Posted by bigblu10

tell him the pip is wrong. A google search will show the difference. It is your watch, but if were me that insert would get tossed in the trash and replaced with a genuine one from a watchmaker with rolex parts account.

x2

[MinMay]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

And i'm sure you're right. But it was the person that i'd rather take it to for fitting it and I also figured it couldn't hurt to have him look it over just to see if there were any obvious errors.

The bezel was switched because we had chatted about the black insert with silver numbers and tick marks (I posted a link a little while back for the original listing) and it had come up that I like the black inserts with gold numbers and tick marks. Vince then told me that he probably had one that he could swap on if I wished, so we proceeded with that route.

Ah, the bezel switch was your request. Then I don't blame VinceB then :) .

Anyhow, what should be the correct color for this watch? black or gold numbers?

In the end, it's your watch....your decision.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

The AD brought this up (aged/creamy date wheel)? The date wheel was creamy when new, it is supposed to be, this is not patina. Further evidence that the person whom examined the watch at your AD is lacking in knowledge of the model.

Further to your most recent post, a fake insert can be noted from a picture no bother..

Yeah he told me that since the date wheel looked the way that it does, it means that it's aged and should be replaced.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Tell him the pip is wrong. A google search will show the difference. It is your watch, but if were me that insert would get tossed in the trash and replaced with a genuine one from a watchmaker with Rolex parts account.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by MinMay

Ah, the bezel switch was your request. Then I don't blame VinceB then :) .

Anyhow, what should be the correct color for this watch? black or gold numbers?

In the end, it's your watch....your decision.

Even still, it was still to my knowledge that the different insert would be authentic.

From what I can tell, it seems that the correct color would be what was on the watch initially in the listing, that being a black insert with silver numbers and tick marks. That's just what I believe though and could be totally wrong.

After contacting vince, he has offered to send me the insert that was originally on the watch when listed for sale, which is supposed to be authentic (and perhaps correct for this watch?).

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Here are pictures of the watch when it was listed for sale, but with the original bezel insert. Vince is offering to send me this insert because it is supposed to be authentic (and swap it for the one currently on the watch). Does it look correct?

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

Yeah he told me that since the date wheel looked the way that it does, it means that it's aged and should be replaced.

That is wrong info on part of the AD. These date wheels were a cream color when brand new. NOT pure bright white. The date wheel on my blue TT Sub never "aged" in 20 years. The Tritium lume plots and hands can patina, and the numerals and markers on the bezel insert fade from gold to "whiteish" over the years from the sun's UV rays. Just goes to show don't trust everything you hear from an AD employee, especially if he/she has no experience with 20 year old watches.

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

That is wrong info on part of the AD. These date wheels were a cream color when brand new. NOT pure bright white. The date wheel on my blue TT Sub never "aged" in 20 years. The Tritium lume plots and hands can patina, and the numerals and markers on the bezel insert fade from gold to "whiteish" over the years from the sun's UV rays. Just goes to show don't trust everything you hear from an AD employee, especially if he/she has no experience with 20 year old watches.

Yeah I can tell now that he didn't know much of what he was talking about...which really amazes that he could sit there and mislead me like that.

[J!m]

Seems like a lot of fuss for a sub $100 bezel insert. To my (not so good with the five digit reference) eyes, the rest looks good. The way the date quick sets (and direction of its rotation) are indicators of the Rolex movement.

I think the gold insert looks better, and if the pearl surround is silver rather than gold on the silver insert, it is for a stainless 16610 and not a two-tone sub. But I’m not the five digit expert others around here are...

[Glifahrenheitcam]

Originally Posted by J!m

Seems like a lot of fuss for a sub $100 bezel insert. To my (not so good with the five digit reference) eyes, the rest looks good. The way the date quick sets (and direction of its rotation) are indicators of the Rolex movement.

I think the gold insert looks better, and if the pearl surround is silver rather than gold on the silver insert, it is for a stainless 16610 and not a two-tone sub. But I’m not the five digit expert others around here are...

I guess call me old fashioned but i'm more about the principle in some situations. And thanks for the input of information. I think I like the gold insert better as well, but I also like for things to be 100% authentic. That's an interesting note on the silver insert...it's a little hard for me to tell but I think that the surround for the pearl does look silver.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Glifahrenheitcam

I guess call me old fashioned but i'm more about the principle in some situations. And thanks for the input of information. I think I like the gold insert better as well, but I also like for things to be 100% authentic. That's an interesting note on the silver insert...it's a little hard for me to tell but I think that the surround for the pearl does look silver.

That insert looks like a 16610 insert to me.

Authentic is different than original. That 16610 insert may be authentic, but it's not original to that watch. If you're going to be old fashioned, I would think you'd prefer the original insert for this watch, which is the gold insert. You can source an authentic original insert for less than $100.

[thesharkfactor]

That is the correct insert, you can see the gold set for the pip.. it has simply faded to silver. I would put that back on the watch, keep it original!

[Masteryacht]

Wow, that sticker does churn the stomach.