How does AD feel about flippers?

[amh]

Originally Posted by jb335

Definitley not all ADs.

I asked my AD for their opinion on this not too long ago and he basically said, if you buy a watch and decide to sell it for some reason "down the road" that is fine, but they have a problem with the guy that buys the watch and then immediatley lists it for sale. Basically never actually owning and wearing it.

I keep hearing about these grey ADs! No purchase history, they're polite, don't push jewelry

That's why I'll keep visiting, but no longer in this town. They're dead to me.

[GB-man]

They are their uncles, nephews and cousins so it’s all love from them!

[mg18]

You'd have a hard time making any significant money selling most DJ configurations (might even lose) in Canada.

Which ones did you pass on?

Edit*

Just saw that you passed on white dial, smooth bezel and the other with roman numerals. I think you would have had a tough time moving them, and perhaps maybe break even...

[1William]

Interesting post and I always enjoy reading the varying options of my fellow members. As consumers /collectors of watches we are somewhat hampered by only having the very basic of information on how the AD's and Grey's/Trusted Sellers run their businesses. We know what Rolex sets the price of models at and we know what the current market is offering them at, within a range. We do not know how many watches the AD's receive and what they are made up of regarding models. We can not know what existing inventory is and how watches are allocated to AD customers. Trade secrets or whatever you want to call it. Maybe none of our business as consumers but a lot of the factors figure into the business. The point I am making is that it is difficult to draw specific conclusions across an entire industry when so many of the participants are independent of each other.

As a 30 year plus collector/buyer/seller/trader/flipper or probably many other labels that will fit, it appears that it can be seen as "All about the Money". Buyers want watches at retail, Sellers/Traders want current market prices or more. Not enough inventory at AD's to satisfy demand at retail because many of the watches can be sold/flipped for an immediate profit and the AD's know this and hold back for different reasons that are know only to them. In the end I will sell/trade/gift my property to whoever I choose. I am in a position that I can buy/sell/trade for basically any watch I want within reason and will not be told what I can and can not do with my property. Don't sell to me, OK. Black list me, I black list you. I have always found people that are willing to take my money for purchases even though it maybe more. I get that people are mad at flippers but be mad at the system that supports them. It is business and give it just as hard to AD's and manufactures. To the OP, do what you want and roll with it. In the end, what does it matter.

[Calatrava r]

So many people say they are mad at the flippers, yet, in the same breath they happily recommend folks skip the games at the ADs and simply buy "grey." The crazy thing to me is that it's the precisely the folks who are flipping who create the inventory at gray/used watch dealers. I guess I will never understand this.

[Osmin]

Smart move to decline. Here in Germany the big ADs only sell now one watch per model. So You won’t get a second DJ. And yes, if they find out you flipp then the relationship is over.
I would not risk it for a Datejust. If you do, don’t get caught.
And the desired DJ configuration should not be so hard to get compared to the SS sportys.

[JJGreen]

Possibly depends what you're flipping....

I don't think anyone cares if you're helping them move stuff that isn't easy to move.

[Rico_Brasole]

I don’t think they particularly care


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[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by HMHM

If you flipped a pearlmaster or something that is sitting in the case, you will probably get a reprimand if they find out. Flip a Daytona or a GMT and you will likely never see another Rolex professional model again.

Facts to support?


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[amh]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

So many people say they are mad at the flippers, yet, in the same breath they happily recommend folks skip the games at the ADs and simply buy "grey." The crazy thing to me is that it's the precisely the folks who are flipping who create the inventory at gray/used watch dealers. I guess I will never understand this.

There are two types of buyers:
1. Whales, Greys and other "good customers." They are prioritized over everyone else. They can spend heavily, 100k means nothing. Their capacity to absorb watches is essentially limitless. Watches end up being sold.
2. Regular people, enthusiasts, collectors, WIS types. Limited purchase capacity. Watches are bought to be worn and are kept in the family.

It is ADs who decide between Group-1 and Group-2. Currently they favor G1 due to much higher profits. The cost for a G2 customer to play with G1 is about $50k recent spend.

So if shopping for a single piece, it's much more attractive to pay the $5k grey markup rather than waste tens of thousands on non-Rolex watches and diamond jewelry at the AD.

Yes, it's market dynamics as you say - but it is exacerbated by AD behavior of artificially limiting supply. We have no idea how many watches they actually have in the safe but it's been documented here how one buyer is passed over and 15min later a watch "appears" for another.

[onyourbikes]

Originally Posted by amh

There are two types of buyers:
1. Whales, Greys and other "good customers." They are prioritized over everyone else. They can spend heavily, 100k means nothing. Their capacity to absorb watches is essentially limitless. Watches end up being sold.
2. Regular people, enthusiasts, collectors, WIS types. Limited purchase capacity. Watches are bought to be worn and are kept in the family.

It is ADs who decide between Group-1 and Group-2. Currently they favor G1 due to much higher profits. The cost for a G2 customer to play with G1 is about $50k recent spend.

So if shopping for a single piece, it's much more attractive to pay the $5k grey markup rather than waste tens of thousands on non-Rolex watches and diamond jewelry at the AD.

Yes, it's market dynamics as you say - but it is exacerbated by AD behavior of artificially limiting supply. We have no idea how many watches they actually have in the safe but it's been documented here how one buyer is passed over and 15min later a watch "appears" for another.

The thing is they will have to change their tactics soon as the market has slumped and their days of easy sales like the last 2 years are pretty much over.

They will have to actually work for sales again soon. And for many sales people that only started in the last 3 years they are so arrogant that they don't understand that this is not usual. And going back to full shelves is the normal.

They are playing silly games and alienating the buyers who have kept them in business for decades by favouring the easy come easy go people who are already leaving watches and moving on.

The games are stupid. Like you say, safes are likely full. I was in a dealer last week picking up a watch from service, who said to multiple people I overheard they haven't had their post christmas delivery yet. But while I was there I saw 3 people all picking up daytonas.
So if you're to believe the dealers get very little stock, it would be remarkable for them to just have 3 Daytonas.
And this is a regular pattern. Say they have nothing yet are steadily selling watches all day long.

They need to change soon I'd say.

[amh]

Originally Posted by onyourbikes

The thing is they will have to change their tactics soon as the market has slumped and their days of easy sales like the last 2 years are pretty much over.

They will have to actually work for sales again soon. And for many sales people that only started in the last 3 years they are so arrogant that they don't understand that this is not usual. And going back to full shelves is the normal.

They are playing silly games and alienating the buyers who have kept them in business for decades by favouring the easy come easy go people who are already leaving watches and moving on.

The games are stupid. Like you say, safes are likely full. I was in a dealer last week picking up a watch from service, who said to multiple people I overheard they haven't had their post christmas delivery yet. But while I was there I saw 3 people all picking up daytonas.
So if you're to believe the dealers get very little stock, it would be remarkable for them to just have 3 Daytonas.
And this is a regular pattern. Say they have nothing yet are steadily selling watches all day long.

They need to change soon I'd say.

Most recent AD visit. No watch, but a $13.5k set of diamond earrings offered instead

[mulberry083]

When buying a BNIB from a grey, does the warranty card provide the AD’s name? At a minimum it would have the serial number.

If Rolex was serious about this, they could purchase random pieces from greys and out the ADs quickly. I question how serious Rolex is about shutting down flipping.


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[Ichiran]

The AD's baseline is not to lose Rolex's dealership and they will do everything to prevent that from happening.

[Dmcnill]

Originally Posted by Hulkhunter

If you are getting offered random DJ configurations they are unlikely to be desirable ones. There are only a few DJ configs you would be able to sell without loosing money let alone make money.

Just wait for what you want

Exactly! Waiting for what you want is actually the best option.