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Old 10 August 2020, 11:02 PM   #31
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Again, will this fall under the Rolex "not for profit" umbrella? Anyone?
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Old 10 August 2020, 11:59 PM   #32
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Bottom line:
Folks should buy the watch the like. The insides do not matter.

If value retention and ease of resale are of main concern... only one option: Rolex. You are buying the name which is almost like cash and easily convertible.

Rolex spends massive marketing dollars to ensure that the name is synonymous with luxury and quality.
Unless their quality falls off the cliff... it will be very hard for Tudor, Omega, or most brand to achieve the value retention and ease of sale of a Rolex.
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Old 11 August 2020, 12:43 AM   #33
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Again, will this fall under the Rolex "not for profit" umbrella? Anyone?
Would expect much like Rolex a large share of the profits go to charities and the Rolex Awards for Enterprise, but Tudor like Rolex they still got to make a company profit to stay in business..
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Old 11 August 2020, 01:21 AM   #34
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Bottom line:
Folks should buy the watch the like. The insides do not matter.
Yep, until service time !
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Old 11 August 2020, 01:25 AM   #35
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Very informative post. I wonder if their making movements for other companies will lift the value of the brand. I would think if other luxury watch brands started using Tudor movements it should reflect favorably on the brand image.
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Old 11 August 2020, 02:40 AM   #36
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All the above is true except the last statement! Tudor is NOT Rolex. That’s a fact


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Oh dear, someone who really wants Patek Philippe
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Old 11 August 2020, 02:50 AM   #37
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Again, will this fall under the Rolex "not for profit" umbrella? Anyone?
Rolex SA is a Swiss licensed Private Foundation. As long as they meet the charter for their Foundation they are good. Tudor and Kenissi are probably separate corporations, just like Rolex USA is.
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Old 11 August 2020, 08:25 AM   #38
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Oh dear, someone who really wants Patek Philippe

Not sure I follow your logic?


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Old 11 August 2020, 09:34 AM   #39
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That herring ain't red anymore, thanks to Tools's perfect explanation above. Pretty sure Tudor & Breitling collaborated on the chrono movement. These kind of cross branding collaborations are [were] not unique.
d
As far as I know it is a bit different. Tudor created their MT5612 independently. Breitling created B01 independently. Then later on Breitling needed a new non chrono movement and Tudor needed a chrono movement. So they decided to make B20 based on Tudor's MT5612 for Breitling's non-chrono offerings, whereas Tudor made MT5813 based on B01 for their chronos. So to sum things up MT5612 was independently designed by Tudor and B01 was independently designed by Breitling.
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Old 11 August 2020, 10:10 AM   #40
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Again, will this fall under the Rolex "not for profit" umbrella? Anyone?
you confuse not for profit to we cant pay people who work there a lot of money. the undistributed net income just stays in the company.
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Old 11 August 2020, 10:23 AM   #41
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As far as I know it is a bit different. Tudor created their MT5612 independently. Breitling created B01 independently. Then later on Breitling needed a new non chrono movement and Tudor needed a chrono movement. So they decided to make B20 based on Tudor's MT5612 for Breitling's non-chrono offerings, whereas Tudor made MT5813 based on B01 for their chronos. So to sum things up MT5612 was independently designed by Tudor and B01 was independently designed by Breitling.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 12 August 2020, 03:31 AM   #42
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Not sure I follow your logic?


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No matter what watch a person wears or prefers there is always a person with what is deemed as a better more expensive and more exclusive watch.
Like fast cars, there is always a faster one.
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Old 13 August 2020, 12:48 AM   #43
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No matter what watch a person wears or prefers there is always a person with what is deemed as a better more expensive and more exclusive watch.
Like fast cars, there is always a faster one.

The issue here is assumption of my intent! I own both Tudor and rolex and many Seiko’s even. Many people deem Tudor to be the same quality as Rolex and that just isn’t the case anymore. Excellent bang per buck and impo Tudor offers more value.

They are complete separate entities.


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Old 13 August 2020, 12:58 AM   #44
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VW isn’t a Lamborghini but if you want to say it is because it’s all under the parent VW company then it could be.
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Old 13 August 2020, 01:31 AM   #45
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As far as I know it is a bit different. Tudor created their MT5612 independently. Breitling created B01 independently. Then later on Breitling needed a new non chrono movement and Tudor needed a chrono movement. So they decided to make B20 based on Tudor's MT5612 for Breitling's non-chrono offerings, whereas Tudor made MT5813 based on B01 for their chronos. So to sum things up MT5612 was independently designed by Tudor and B01 was independently designed by Breitling.
Very interesting thank you!
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Old 13 August 2020, 02:34 AM   #46
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Based on the BBGMT date wheel issue, they're off to a bad start.

Assuming that Kenissi is doing this GMT movement, could we possibly see GMT models for other member brands in the future?
Kenissi is supplying Norqain with the GMT movement soon. I think it would benefit them to at least acknowledge that the date issue has been fixed; otherwise I'd be hesitant to buy the GMT movement in any brand.
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Old 13 August 2020, 03:30 AM   #47
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The issue here is assumption of my intent! I own both Tudor and rolex and many Seiko’s even. Many people deem Tudor to be the same quality as Rolex and that just isn’t the case anymore. Excellent bang per buck and impo Tudor offers more value.

They are complete separate entities.


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So Lexus isn’t a Toyota then?
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Old 13 August 2020, 04:34 AM   #48
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As an outsider is kinda funny how people at Tudor have obviously been working pretty hard on strenghtening the brand, getting it out of the shade of Rolex and making it stand on its own feet (manufacture movements, separate facilities etc.), yet people here get instantly labeled "haters" for stating the simple fact that Tudor is not Rolex.
As if it is some sort of insult, instead of recignizing that Tudor has a dignity of its own.
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Old 13 August 2020, 04:37 AM   #49
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VW isn’t a Lamborghini but if you want to say it is because it’s all under the parent VW company then it could be.
This is a false analogy.

Did VW create Lamborghini and guide its development? Of course not. They bought an existing company.
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Old 13 August 2020, 04:55 AM   #50
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As an outsider is kinda funny how people at Tudor have obviously been working pretty hard on strenghtening the brand, getting it out of the shade of Rolex and making it stand on its own feet (manufacture movements, separate facilities etc.), yet people here get instantly labeled "haters" for stating the simple fact that Tudor is not Rolex.
As if it is some sort of insult, instead of recignizing that Tudor has a dignity of its own.
You completely miss the point. Most here who buy Tudor is BECAUSE it's not a Rolex. Tudor offers references that Rolex doesn't or some prefer a larger size [like me]. And many like the idea if finding a reference they desire, heading to an AD, and actually getting to buy said reference.

But then the inevitable "then save up and buy a Rolex" comments start flowing. When it's been proven over & over again that many who own Tudor also already own Rolex. The brands compliment each other, as was originally intended. Sadly, too many status whores feel sullied by the riff riff and prefer no association at all.
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Old 13 August 2020, 05:10 AM   #51
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You completely miss the point. Most here who buy Tudor is BECAUSE it's not a Rolex. Tudor offers references that Rolex doesn't or some prefer a larger size [like me]. And many like the idea if finding a reference they desire, heading to an AD, and actually getting to buy said reference.

But then the inevitable "then save up and buy a Rolex" comments start flowing. When it's been proven over & over again that many who own Tudor also already own Rolex. The brands compliment each other, as was originally intended. Sadly, too many status whores feel sullied by the riff riff and prefer no association at all.
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Well said, Dan!
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Old 13 August 2020, 05:18 AM   #52
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VW isn’t a Lamborghini but if you want to say it is because it’s all under the parent VW company then it could be.
Quality

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Old 13 August 2020, 06:54 AM   #53
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It is a good defensive move against the inevitable ETA shutoff.

I am confused about the chicken-egg discussion. I read somewhere that Kenissi made sapphire crystals previously.

Then they silently worked as a sub inside Tudor’s factory making movements. When Tudor announced its first proprietary movements at Baselworld in 2015, did they disclose whose hands really made the movement?

I understand the new building will put the Kenissi watchmakers into separate facilities (Tudor having equal footing with Breitling and Chanel having 20% stake). But Rolex is leasing the land to Kenissi. Kenissi will also actively market their movements to other small brands.

It seems brands are repeating the same error they made relying on Swatch - but now it’s Tudor/Rolex in the catbird seat.


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Old 13 August 2020, 10:48 AM   #54
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So Lexus isn’t a Toyota then?

Yeap, Lexus is made in the Toyota factory. Is Tudor made in the Rolex factory?


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Old 13 August 2020, 09:48 PM   #55
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Yeap, Lexus is made in the Toyota factory. Is Tudor made in the Rolex factory?


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I believe up until recently Tudor/Rolex were manufactured in the same Factory, but Tudor have now moved to purpose built premises next door to Rolex
I’m sure someone will correct me if I am wrong
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Old 13 August 2020, 10:48 PM   #56
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But then the inevitable "then save up and buy a Rolex" comments start flowing. When it's been proven over & over again that many who own Tudor also already own Rolex. The brands compliment each other, as was originally intended. Sadly, too many status whores feel sullied by the riff riff and prefer no association at all.
dP


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Old 13 August 2020, 11:42 PM   #57
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You completely miss the point. Most here who buy Tudor is BECAUSE it's not a Rolex. Tudor offers references that Rolex doesn't or some prefer a larger size [like me]. And many like the idea if finding a reference they desire, heading to an AD, and actually getting to buy said reference.

But then the inevitable "then save up and buy a Rolex" comments start flowing. When it's been proven over & over again that many who own Tudor also already own Rolex. The brands compliment each other, as was originally intended. Sadly, too many status whores feel sullied by the riff riff and prefer no association at all.
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Absolutely! I can't say it any better than that so I won't
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Old 13 August 2020, 11:46 PM   #58
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You completely miss the point. Most here who buy Tudor is BECAUSE it's not a Rolex. Tudor offers references that Rolex doesn't or some prefer a larger size [like me]. And many like the idea if finding a reference they desire, heading to an AD, and actually getting to buy said reference.

But then the inevitable "then save up and buy a Rolex" comments start flowing. When it's been proven over & over again that many who own Tudor also already own Rolex. The brands compliment each other, as was originally intended. Sadly, too many status whores feel sullied by the riff riff and prefer no association at all.
dP
Agree Dan but afraid today many look at watches through Rolex blinked glasses as many only wear the brand and not the watch.
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Old 14 August 2020, 01:49 AM   #59
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I think that this thread is losing the point.

When I say that Tudor is Rolex, I'm talking about the company. Debating if a Tudor watch is a Rolex watch, or one is inferior to the other is missing that when Tudor/Kenissi build their new manufacturing facility, they are still part of the Rolex Corporation.

No different than Omega, Breguet, Glashutte Original, Longines, Tissot, and ETA being Swatches.
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Old 14 August 2020, 02:13 AM   #60
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I wonder how that will work with the Rolex non-profit umbrella; seems like it will no longer be under the umbrella.
I don't think it will have any affect in honest. The collaboration with "for profit" brands isn't so much to develop new businesses, it's a venture to bring in companies that would be affected by Swatch, so they can get ahead of the issue. Making and developing movements takes a lot of resources, much more than doing so just to sell Tudor watches is worth.
With companies like Breitling or Chanel providing funding, it cuts down on Tudors R&D costs. Breitling benefitted greatly from the chronograph they shared with Tudor.

What do these companies get, a great well produced product that may even be better than ETA and Tudor(Rolex) gets capital to develop a movement that they can then sell to its partners.
This won't affect Rolex's non profit status more than any other business venture, like Comex or Nemoto which both yielded they're own relevance Rolex.
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