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Old 20 April 2018, 06:57 AM   #61
gmstevenson
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Originally Posted by jschmidtdmd View Post
Sounds like the prices will come down on these. The 5170 in general was a dud.....so I guess we wait and see.
I don't know that I would go so far as to call them a "dud." In general, I think tastes have moved towards sport watches and the number of people interested in a manual wind chronograph that retails over $80K is limited. I also think this applies to the AC market too -- peoples' tastes just favor SS sport models more and there is less interest in traditional complications on straps, which I still love.

Thankfully for those who purchased them the production runs were not as long as other references. The white face 5170G is not as readily available at ADs as in the past (although I'm still seeing several black face Gs here in CA). As time goes on I think these do have a chance to rebound in price, at least to some extent. I'm not saying they will be highly collectable but I do think these references have some things going for them, including the first in-house manual wind chrono, very wearable sizing, traditional looks, etc.
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Old 20 April 2018, 07:18 AM   #62
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I called and it was sold. The price was correct.

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If this deal is real and the seller is legit. Someone had better buy in on this asap. I thought I got a decent deal but this is stellar if you can buy one new for that price.
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Old 20 April 2018, 07:23 AM   #63
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Lol it was real... 8 people asked me for his info i got it. He said it was already sold..
I'm not doubting you op. I'm more curious if someone here bought the watch and will receive as advertised. Just seems odd it's so far off well known grey sellers here on this forum like davidsw who knows the market inside out attending shows/watching trends.

Whatever the case, someone got a great deal on a great watch if this went through. I'm still be happy with mine for sure heh.
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Old 20 April 2018, 07:40 AM   #64
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great deal for sure. its still one of my favorites, and i paid well above $60
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Old 20 April 2018, 08:05 AM   #65
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The "P" version has imho the most balanced dial among the iterations.
As is often the case w patek the dials are tweaked as the metal changes to address the finer details of design.
The P dial nailed it (diamond markers aside) and I anticipate it will see appreciation from future collectors.
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Old 20 April 2018, 08:11 AM   #66
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I’m definitely getting one here soon. I don’t know if this model will appreciate pending how many they make and model run. 60 was a steal.
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Old 20 April 2018, 02:51 PM   #67
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Hey guys!
Sorry for the late response; it is in fact a 5170P new from a grey dealer. 55k + 5k commission =$60K

I didnt buy it, just didnt feel right.
There are many questions left unanswered.
1) Why would a watch which, I think, was launched only in 2017 have such a steep drop in prices?
2) Did you actually see the real watch on hand?
3) Why would a dealer forfeit the chance to earn extra when there's no record of any price drop of this watch prior to this thread?
4) From where I live, dealers would not share info on their commissions.

I have not bought from any dealers before nor understand fully the way of the watch market and it would be a very good learning experience on this.

The above are my opinions and not meant to be challenging. But in some of the local watch forums originating from Singapore, many contributors are dealers. Some are also initiators.

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Old 20 April 2018, 03:03 PM   #68
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It “sold”. Still don’t believe it. Why would this seller not offer it at $70k? Why the fire sale? If this grey is legit, and the watch is real and not hot, then he must see where these are offered (mid 80s to 90s). To undercut the price by such a large amount seems inconceivable, or just plain dumb.
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Old 20 April 2018, 06:04 PM   #69
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It “sold”. Still don’t believe it. Why would this seller not offer it at $70k? Why the fire sale? If this grey is legit, and the watch is real and not hot, then he must see where these are offered (mid 80s to 90s). To undercut the price by such a large amount seems inconceivable, or just plain dumb.
+1
If the AD sold it new at $55k they won’t be an AD for much longer.

If the AD is so keen for a quick sale why did they not offer it at $75k to a great client - everyone wins, client is super happy and AD makes $20k more! This simply makes no sense!
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Old 20 April 2018, 06:14 PM   #70
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+1
If the AD sold it new at $55k they won’t be an AD for much longer.

If the AD is so keen for a quick sale why did they not offer it at $75k to a great client - everyone wins, client is super happy and AD makes $20k more! This simply makes no sense!
i fully agree. Plus since when are grey dealers in the business of needlessly and aggressively pushing prices down below market value? IMO the grey dealer won't be in business much longer either

Plus im sure grey dealers operate like a cartel like OPEC.... im sure the other dealers are not happy with this guy being this out of step with everyone else. Its in no ones interest who resells watches.
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Old 8 August 2018, 12:04 AM   #71
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I can attest that prices of the 5170P (or any of the non Nautilus and non aquanaut models) are trading at a discount. I was recently offered the 5170P brand new at a generous discount over list. What I was told from the grey dealer is that buyers go into a Patek boutique and buys one or a few of these slow moving items and requests for a Nautilus or an aquanaut as add on pieces. Since you are helping to acquire the slow moving pieces, the boutiques reward you by selling you a Nautilus hot item. The grey dealers make tons of money by selling the Nautilus at huge profits and sells the slow moving items at a loss, but the profit from the Nautilus far outways the loss. This gimmick is widely practised in the corrupted Hermes Bag resale market. This is the reason why there are so many of these high end unwanted pieces selling at huge discounts. This current Nautilus, Aquanaut and rolex (vintage and modern) frenzy is just so out of control. Patek should get one of these hot Hollywood rappers to wear a 5170P or 5930G and you’ll see these pieces skyrocketing in demand. One of the reasons I purchase these watches is because they are first and foremost, beautiful pieces and an art to me, some people prefer having paintings on the walls, I prefer to appreciate the artwork on my wrist where I can take them everywhere I go to. But to see the value of these rarer Patek pieces plummeting after one year of release is simply aweful. Even once powerhouses like Breguet and VC are falling hard. What would happen to haute horlogerie if this sports only craze continues.
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Old 8 August 2018, 12:41 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Pingparme View Post
I can attest that prices of the 5170P (or any of the non Nautilus and non aquanaut models) are trading at a discount. I was recently offered the 5170P brand new at a generous discount over list. What I was told from the grey dealer is that buyers go into a Patek boutique and buys one or a few of these slow moving items and requests for a Nautilus or an aquanaut as add on pieces. Since you are helping to acquire the slow moving pieces, the boutiques reward you by selling you a Nautilus hot item. The grey dealers make tons of money by selling the Nautilus at huge profits and sells the slow moving items at a loss, but the profit from the Nautilus far outways the loss. This gimmick is widely practised in the corrupted Hermes Bag resale market. This is the reason why there are so many of these high end unwanted pieces selling at huge discounts. This current Nautilus, Aquanaut and rolex (vintage and modern) frenzy is just so out of control. Patek should get one of these hot Hollywood rappers to wear a 5170P or 5930G and you’ll see these pieces skyrocketing in demand
Except Jayz already wore a 5230 and it didn't help much... Another alternative is to make more watches people want to buy. LOL
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Old 8 August 2018, 01:12 AM   #73
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If that’s the case, manufactures such as Patek will have to produce 80% Nautilus, 15% Aquanaut and 5% of the rest. If they follow this production pattern, I guess the watch world will return to normal :) wishful thinking
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Old 8 August 2018, 01:30 AM   #74
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If that’s the case, manufactures such as Patek will have to produce 80% Nautilus, 15% Aquanaut and 5% of the rest. If they follow this production pattern, I guess the watch world will return to normal
I believe that is the future quite frankly. Happened with AP and while manufacturers can resist, at some point the market dictates.
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Old 8 August 2018, 02:21 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Pingparme View Post
I can attest that prices of the 5170P (or any of the non Nautilus and non aquanaut models) are trading at a discount. I was recently offered the 5170P brand new at a generous discount over list. What I was told from the grey dealer is that buyers go into a Patek boutique and buys one or a few of these slow moving items and requests for a Nautilus or an aquanaut as add on pieces. Since you are helping to acquire the slow moving pieces, the boutiques reward you by selling you a Nautilus hot item. The grey dealers make tons of money by selling the Nautilus at huge profits and sells the slow moving items at a loss, but the profit from the Nautilus far outways the loss. This gimmick is widely practised in the corrupted Hermes Bag resale market. This is the reason why there are so many of these high end unwanted pieces selling at huge discounts. This current Nautilus, Aquanaut and rolex (vintage and modern) frenzy is just so out of control. Patek should get one of these hot Hollywood rappers to wear a 5170P or 5930G and you’ll see these pieces skyrocketing in demand. One of the reasons I purchase these watches is because they are first and foremost, beautiful pieces and an art to me, some people prefer having paintings on the walls, I prefer to appreciate the artwork on my wrist where I can take them everywhere I go to. But to see the value of these rarer Patek pieces plummeting after one year of release is simply aweful. Even once powerhouses like Breguet and VC are falling hard. What would happen to haute horlogerie if this sports only craze continues.
Were you offered a discount by the grey or an AD?
I think a bigger deal than the AD actually discounting is the VAT saving that foreign buyers make - here in the UK you can buy the 5170P for less than £61k (list £73k+) and move it to a grey very easily - 20% off list without any discount taking place. PP are trying to clamp down on this.
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Old 8 August 2018, 03:26 AM   #76
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Sorry but you want a cheap clock then buy a standard Omega speedmaster, or leave it, Think about what the real meaning of a clock is.
87€ List Price...a few % discount and everything is ok...
Sorry but Can we talk something more about the actual details of this wonderful clock??
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Old 8 August 2018, 04:10 AM   #77
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Sorry but Can we talk something more about the actual details of this wonderful clock??
Go on then.
Let’s hear your thoughts on this beautiful piece.
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Old 8 August 2018, 04:41 AM   #78
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I bought this piece because it is the most beautiful from the 5170 collection.
Its a very classic and also sporty watch.
The dial has very different colors from classic black to modern blue.
The diamonds also shine a lot more than the diamonds from Rolex. The baguettes are very clear. The baguette are beautiful shining but in the same way they are not obvious!!
(Sorry for my English, but I hope you understand me)
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Old 8 August 2018, 05:10 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
I bought this piece because it is the most beautiful from the 5170 collection.
Its a very classic and also sporty watch.
The dial has very different colors from classic black to modern blue.
The diamonds also shine a lot more than the diamonds from Rolex. The baguettes are very clear. The baguette are beautiful shining but in the same way they are not obvious!!
(Sorry for my English, but I hope you understand me)
congrats Hermann, it is a very beautiful watch (or clock! )!! Enjoy it.

I understand many get sick of these price and value discussions but perhaps the access to information and culture overall is shifting to a place where all customers (no matter where or what level) want "value" in the things they buy - that has been my overall sense and thinking in the last years
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Old 8 August 2018, 05:27 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
I bought this piece because it is the most beautiful from the 5170 collection.
Its a very classic and also sporty watch.
The dial has very different colors from classic black to modern blue.
The diamonds also shine a lot more than the diamonds from Rolex. The baguettes are very clear. The baguette are beautiful shining but in the same way they are not obvious!!
(Sorry for my English, but I hope you understand me)
Perfect. Congratulations.
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Old 8 August 2018, 12:23 PM   #81
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I have been checking on 5170p constantly in past two month.
The reasonable price range would be 75-80k(consider its a good price already)
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Old 8 August 2018, 12:35 PM   #82
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I have been checking on 5170p constantly in past two month.
The reasonable price range would be 75-80k(consider its a good price already)
Here in Singapore, the price is US$93,000.
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Old 8 August 2018, 01:40 PM   #83
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Here in Singapore, the price is US$93,000.
I believe thats tax included and paying at retail?
In China the price will be pretty much identical to Singapore after tax refund (11%,minus 2% fees) without any discount.
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Old 8 August 2018, 01:45 PM   #84
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congrats Hermann, it is a very beautiful watch (or clock! )!! Enjoy it.

I understand many get sick of these price and value discussions but perhaps the access to information and culture overall is shifting to a place where all customers (no matter where or what level) want "value" in the things they buy - that has been my overall sense and thinking in the last years
People havent forgot recession from 2008, so lesson learned and being more rational when consuming.
But history always repeat itself this rational behavior wont last long
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Old 8 August 2018, 01:54 PM   #85
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I believe thats tax included and paying at retail?
In China the price will be pretty much identical to Singapore after tax refund (11%,minus 2% fees) without any discount.
Hi appa666.
Yes, the price include tax and at retail.
For bringing the piece out of Singapore, one would get a rebate of around 6%.
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Old 8 August 2018, 04:47 PM   #86
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Were you offered a discount by the grey or an AD?
I think a bigger deal than the AD actually discounting is the VAT saving that foreign buyers make - here in the UK you can buy the 5170P for less than £61k (list £73k+) and move it to a grey very easily - 20% off list without any discount taking place. PP are trying to clamp down on this.
I was offered by a dealer
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Old 8 August 2018, 04:50 PM   #87
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congrats Hermann, it is a very beautiful watch (or clock! )!! Enjoy it.

I understand many get sick of these price and value discussions but perhaps the access to information and culture overall is shifting to a place where all customers (no matter where or what level) want "value" in the things they buy - that has been my overall sense and thinking in the last years
I understand the discussion of value is not desirable in this forum, but at some point, they are all related. People won’t pay for the prices Patek is listing were it not for the manufacture’s prestige. People would buy, for example, JLC, an excellent manufacture with many proven in-house innovations but much more accesible. If Frederic Constant were to be the one launching the 5170P at 96k, I am pretty sure the reaction from this forum wouldn’t be anywhere close to Patek launching the 5170P and many would even say Frédéric Constant’s product is scandulous at that price. So, value perception is something we always take into consideration when we evaluate.

The 5170P analogy is somewhat like buying a prestigious property last year at product launch and then price plummets only one year later, that’s the frustration I was trying to convey, but market always dictates at the end and we have one odd behaving market at the moment.

Btw, I have just confirmed my purchase of the 5170P and I will wear it with joy no matter what happens to its future value
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Old 8 August 2018, 05:25 PM   #88
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I was offered by a dealer
Grey or Authorised?
% discount?
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Old 8 August 2018, 05:51 PM   #89
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Grey or Authorised?
% discount?
Grey, more than 20% discount
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Old 8 August 2018, 06:47 PM   #90
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Grey, more than 20% discount
sounds great! i get 11% off and the tax back (16%, for residency reasons) but i think one can still do better on the 5170P. i get interested when the offer is <60K euros.
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