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STEELINOX · 8 December 2010, 10:06 AM

This is from Rani's Sub C picture that I have blown up just a tad.
See the tool marks on the serrations, is this called, 'tool chatter' or is this a vertical cut that was done in steps? Or is this actually "grain" we are seeing in the 904L? What tool (operation) does this cut? Larry (Tools), anybody, Ferris Bueller??

tfduff723 · 8 December 2010, 10:39 AM

Looks to me like those notches are cut from a robotic wheel tool of some type versus a die. My guess is those lines are the result of the cutting edge.

It don't think it is the grain of the steel as that would only be visible in the microstructure.

STEELINOX · 8 December 2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfduff723

Looks to me like those notches are cut from a robotic wheel tool of some type versus a die. My guess is those lines are the result of the cutting edge.

It don't think it is the grain of the steel as that would only be visible in the microstructure.

Problem is what I am seeing is a non uniform tool cut and it appears that the dark area, nearer the surface is consistently dark in color, if not in texture...

It may be a vertical mill cut, that is of course 'robotically controlled'...
I am more inclined to it being a shadow, in that the tool has firstly started the cut, the darker area, then as it goes deeper, it pulls away from the stock, resulting in the other marks visible deeper in the serration...

Rikki · 8 December 2010, 11:13 AM

It's chatter from a cutting tool that is out of tolerance as it moves from notch to notch there's a slight variance causing the multiple styrations. Rik

STEELINOX · 8 December 2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikki

It's chatter from a cutting tool that is out of tolerance as it moves from notch to notch there's a slight variance causing the multiple styrations. Rik

Thanks Rikki, thats what I thought it was at first !

Morax · 2 September 2011, 05:48 PM

It is funny how I never noticed some details on the watch until I came here

Enclosed are screenshots I just grabbed from Rolex web page. Seemes to me they have these marks on serrations there too and I can find them on my watch as well.
So should this be considered as issue or normal? Can this be found on older Sub models?

masterserg · 3 September 2011, 12:33 AM

Interesting... the post got me curious so I looked at my Sub through a $4 chinese microscope I recently got... the grain is straight an even ... I don't see the "chatter". Here's a crappy iphone pic through the peephole under the harsh scope LED light. Whatever looks uneven is either a reflection or dust.

STEELINOX · 3 September 2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterserg

Interesting... the post got me curious so I looked at my Sub through a $4 chinese microscope I recently got... the grain is straight an even ... I don't see the "chatter". Here's a crappy iphone pic through the peephole under the harsh scope LED light. Whatever looks uneven is either a reflection or dust.

nice imagery

Your image shows a tool "in tolerance" as the cuts are uniform and very vertical = nice !!!

So its pretty common to see tool chatter, or tools out of tolerance; a QC issue prolly involving switchout of the tool itself = $$$

So, ROLEX squeeze every "harmonic ounce" from the tool til it finally breaks !

masterserg · 3 September 2011, 12:48 AM

^^^ It certainly looks that way ...

masterserg · 3 September 2011, 05:58 AM

Unfortunately, I am noticing more and more of these QA slips and lack of attention to detail as of late, mostly on everything I buy (with a few honorable exceptions) ... Montblanc pens being a prime example (misaligned parts, harsh threads, etc... I even got a loose clip on a Starwalker once) ... prices on the other hand continue to go up, so you would expect a bit more care. I am glad I am not the only one that sees this.

Numismatist · 3 September 2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEELINOX

So, ROLEX squeeze every "harmonic ounce" from the tool til it finally breaks !

Maybe we can use this tool chatter to date the random sequence watches! Too much chatter = newer watch, perfect cuts = older watch.

STEELINOX · 3 September 2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Maybe we can use this tool chatter to date the random sequence watches! Too much chatter = newer watch, perfect cuts = older watch.

Thats bout the size of it !

Morax · 4 September 2011, 01:22 AM

Actually you can only see this under specific light conditions and angle of view.
On first and last picture you can see it well. Not on the middle ones.
I made these pics in one session, have a look.

STEELINOX · 4 September 2011, 01:28 AM

Sad, sad...

And ya know, now that peeps have seen these, they'll start 'nit-picking' cerrations

It also goes to show how "pressed" ROLEX is to 'let' imperfections thru

n:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morax

Actually you can only see this under specific light conditions and angle of view.
On first and last picture you can see it well. Not on the middle ones.
I made these pics in one session, have a look.

Nice pictorial Morax !

RRGHOST1 · 4 September 2011, 04:01 AM

It doesn't bother me one bit,am not particular, only a WIS would notice to that degree anyway.

rmfnla · 7 September 2011, 04:05 AM

Easy to fix, though; just wrap micro-fine sandpaper around a drill bit of appropriate size and give the notches a quick polishing.

Morax · 7 September 2011, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmfnla

Easy to fix, though; just wrap micro-fine sandpaper around a drill bit of appropriate size and give the notches a quick polishing.

Sounds like a clever idea to me but I am just a clumsy guy

STEELINOX · 7 September 2011, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morax

Sounds like a clever idea to me but I am just a clumsy guy

It is a good idea...

The tool would have to be pivot and fixed so you could dial in 'by hand' the amount of material you need to correctly finish; its an easy set up and prolly can be achieved with even a dremel and some sorta end mill

tictic · 8 September 2011, 04:10 AM

Are these "chatter" marks only noted on the newer ceramic bezels?
Could there be ceramic "contamination" at work involved here?

Morax · 8 September 2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tictic

Are these "chatter" marks only noted on the newer ceramic bezels?
Could there be ceramic "contamination" at work involved here?

I am sorry but what do you mean by "ceramic contamination"? I dont get it.

Megalobyte · 11 September 2011, 10:04 AM

You know, I'm as anal as anybody, but I have not and will not inspect my Sub C for this.

Oh who am I kidding, BRB...

Morax · 8 December 2011, 03:59 AM

Folks, let me share my experience with RSC Geneva on these marks.

Went to my AD with these marks, she questioned Rolex and they requested the watch to be sent to Geneva RSC.
Fast forward 9weeks I got the watch with no bezel serrations. Just perfect as it should be.
That being said, Rolex is aware these serrations are not normal..

+ there was a little piece of lint under the crystal so its gone too BUT.. now there is a finger smudge under the crystal.

I mean seriously? I am about to

I hope some of you Rolex guru's here can make my life easier telling me that my AD watchmaker can clean this without sending it to RSC again?
I hope this is the case since there is not AR coating inside.
What do you thing?
Will ask my AD myself tomorrow but your opinion is welcomed.

8 December 2010, 10:06 AM	#1
STEELINOX 2024 ROLEX DATE-JUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Sink-O! Location: a praire in AZ Watch: ROLEX-less atm... Posts: 14,007	What do you make of these marks ??? This is from Rani's Sub C picture that I have blown up just a tad. See the tool marks on the serrations, is this called, 'tool chatter' or is this a vertical cut that was done in steps? Or is this actually "grain" we are seeing in the 904L? What tool (operation) does this cut? Larry (Tools), anybody, Ferris Bueller?? __________________ *Positive Waves Baby* Lug Hole Loyalist / Chamfer Line Inspector INFORTHE WIN 274

3 September 2011, 12:48 AM	#9
masterserg "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Real Name: Serg Location: US of A Watch: AP Posts: 7,428	^^^ It certainly looks that way ... __________________ How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat????

3 September 2011, 05:58 AM	#10
masterserg "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Real Name: Serg Location: US of A Watch: AP Posts: 7,428	Unfortunately, I am noticing more and more of these QA slips and lack of attention to detail as of late, mostly on everything I buy (with a few honorable exceptions) ... Montblanc pens being a prime example (misaligned parts, harsh threads, etc... I even got a loose clip on a Starwalker once) ... prices on the other hand continue to go up, so you would expect a bit more care. I am glad I am not the only one that sees this. __________________ How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat????

7 September 2011, 04:05 AM	#16
rmfnla "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Real Name: Richard Location: Los Angeles, CA Watch: TT DJ Posts: 4,456	Easy to fix, though; just wrap micro-fine sandpaper around a drill bit of appropriate size and give the notches a quick polishing. __________________ Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here... Lug Hole Lover®

8 December 2011, 03:59 AM	#22
Morax "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Real Name: Jiri Location: Czech Republic Watch: 116610LN Posts: 78	Folks, let me share my experience with RSC Geneva on these marks. Went to my AD with these marks, she questioned Rolex and they requested the watch to be sent to Geneva RSC. Fast forward 9weeks I got the watch with no bezel serrations. Just perfect as it should be. That being said, Rolex is aware these serrations are not normal.. + there was a little piece of lint under the crystal so its gone too BUT.. now there is a finger smudge under the crystal. I mean seriously? I am about to I hope some of you Rolex guru's here can make my life easier telling me that my AD watchmaker can clean this without sending it to RSC again? I hope this is the case since there is not AR coating inside. What do you thing? Will ask my AD myself tomorrow but your opinion is welcomed. __________________ Quality matters

8 December 2010, 10:39 AM	#2
tfduff723 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Michigan USA Watch: Rolex & Omega 4 Me Posts: 1,685	Looks to me like those notches are cut from a robotic wheel tool of some type versus a die. My guess is those lines are the result of the cutting edge. It don't think it is the grain of the steel as that would only be visible in the microstructure.

8 December 2010, 11:13 AM	#4
Rikki TechXpert Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Rik Dietel Location: Seminole Fla Watch: 5512 s/s Sub Posts: 1,818	It's chatter from a cutting tool that is out of tolerance as it moves from notch to notch there's a slight variance causing the multiple styrations. Rik

4 September 2011, 04:01 AM	#15
RRGHOST1 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: luke standing Location: england Watch: Rolex TT SubC Blue Posts: 3,913	It doesn't bother me one bit,am not particular, only a WIS would notice to that degree anyway.

8 September 2011, 04:10 AM	#19
tictic "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Mark Location: New England USA Posts: 112	Are these "chatter" marks only noted on the newer ceramic bezels? Could there be ceramic "contamination" at work involved here?

11 September 2011, 10:04 AM	#21
Megalobyte "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Real Name: Ari Location: Florida Watch: ...me go broke Posts: 2,428	You know, I'm as anal as anybody, but I have not and will not inspect my Sub C for this. Oh who am I kidding, BRB...

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