Finding my way around: Single RED, Double RED, Black 1675 and Orange Hand 1655

[tom_hanx]

Not sure how to call the thread, how to phrase it or where to start...

My 40th came and went and I didn't celebrate it with a birth year watch, as I intended before my son was born... Truth be told, I was so sleep and time deprived that deciding between vintage AP, Rolex or their modern ancestors really didn't make it on the radar. Then there were the bystander distractions of Tudor MN-Subs and other vintage divers who have the looks but pop up less often... Recently I feel better and catching up on my sleep, so naturally the old reflexes return and I'm again eyeing watches I lust(ed)...

This time I am facing a different dilemma though - which one to focus on and which one to chase. Geneva, despite being the cradle and all, is really poor on dealers the likes of HQ Milton. Truth is - we have none. The few that exist are so spoiled by their Russian, Arab and Chinese customers, they have nothing for the mere mortal on his decade anniversary 15k budget... It's either the brand-new full retail or uber-mega rare 100+k exotics. By appointment only, naturally.

Without straying too far from topic, if that can indeed be called a topic, I'm posting here to find my way around the "short list". As much as I love MilSub 5517s, I will never scrape this kind of cash to buy one, so I'm trying to stay within the 15k range and, if possible around the early 1970s. Searching the fora told me there are the 1675 GMTs, the orange hand 1655s and Single/Double RED 1680s to be had in various conditions. What I mean is, I can probably find decent full set 1675 and good looking 1655s, even a single RED with B&P, and maybe (just maybe) a double red with nothing...

To keep it on the objective side, what I'm looking for is
- 40mm
- no franken
- provenance is a plus
- full set is coveted

On the subjective side, I'm kinda unclear or better said, unable to make a decision on the 1680's thickness for example. Side shots of the REDs show a thicker crystal - is that something one can wear comfortable under a cuff? See, I'm a desk diver and like my shirts to slide comfortably over my watches. Sold quite a few for being "fat". Rule of thumb would be 12mm or less in thickness but then - no real life opportunity to try and decide.

On the other hand, there is the history aspect of things - rarity, significance, movement durability, etc. Ranking the "short list" of mentioned models has been impossible for me as a vintage Rolex novice. Coke or all-black bezel 1675 GMT is cool, but is the 1655 Orange hand better? In what way? Why? Newbie stuff...

Last attempt to formulate a question: if you were in my shoes, considering a vintage Rolex from the 1970-1975 period and had ~$15k to spend, what would you buy? Alternatives in my head are new AP 15202 (latest blue date disk), AP 15400, Blue/Black (Batman, I think) GMT 116710BLNR and a few others but irrelevant to this discussion.

Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts

[Tudor66]

The answer is easy- full set red sub. My life somehow is more complete now that I wear mine regularly!
[IMG][/IMG]

[Beaumont Miller II]

You just have to love the Sea Dweller. With a bit more mass, it wears like a modern watch, but at a glance it is unmistakably vintage. In addition the superdome crystals give the matte dials underneath a unique look. Here is mine. A 5.3 mil serial, a little outside the range you are looking for but still worth considering.

[1675-David]

Ha ha, 3 answers so far and 3 different watches. You'll score a very nice 1655 for 15k and thats exactly what I would do..

Good luck with you search!

[tom_hanx]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Ha ha, 3 answers so far and 3 different watches. You'll score a very nice 1655 for 15k and thats exactly what I would do..

Good luck with you search!

LOL - it is the journey and hunt that bring most fun and adrenalin rush, no? Did I mention about the 5512/5513 and how the non-date really appeal to me. No wonder so many people are hooked on Rolex after their first buy - so much more to want and desire...

[Vincent65]

Get the one which appeals the most, and get the best example you can with the budget available. A DRSD will not be in that bracket, much less a full set, but certainly a great 1675 (with some change to spare), and maybe a decent RED 1680 set. You are also on the fringes of a good 1655 or 1665 with that kind of money, but not likely with B&P. You won't go wrong with any of those mentioned.

[goog53]

IMO, forget the box and papers. Just enjoy wearing the darn thing and decide which one speaks to you. My vote is...

[Mendota]

My 40th came and went, as did the 10th anniversary of starting my company. Now I am coming up on my 10th wedding anniversary. Which milestone to celebrate? Well, if I had your budget I would go GMT, personally. You'll have plenty leftover to spare, which will buy you another more modern watch - or two. With that budget you could pick up a decent 1675, a 16570 Exp II and a 14270 Exp 1. 3-fer-1. You'll never find a double red 1655 with that low of a budget, but certainly a nice red would be doable. That said, I personally still go back to the 1675.

The beauty is everyone has different preferences, so whatever decision you make is going to be great. Just be sure to post pics after you make it or you'll leave a lot of folks hanging.

[pablofields]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Ha ha, 3 answers so far and 3 different watches. You'll score a very nice 1655 for 15k and thats exactly what I would do..

Good luck with you search!

X2

[dysondiver]

full red set ,,, would be nice , and bought well would never loose money. so if you did decide a change was due , you should get your cash back to go again.

[Jp28]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Get the one which appeals the most, and get the best example you can with the budget available. A DRSD will not be in that bracket, much less a full set, but certainly a great 1675 (with some change to spare), and maybe a decent RED 1680 set. You are also on the fringes of a good 1655 or 1665 with that kind of money, but not likely with B&P. You won't go wrong with any of those mentioned.

All this is spot on.

As regards thickness of the 1680 i actually find it perfect with shirts/cuffs. This is speaking from experience of having a 1680 and a 1655.

[shane0mack]

You're in a great price range, IMO. The world is your...oyster (heh) here. A full set Red 1680 would be very hard to overlook. But here's I guess how I'd rank my own choices:

1. Red 1680
2. Great White 1665
3. 5512 in pristine condition -- maybe meters first
4. Gilt 5513 in good condition
5. 5508 in good condition
6. 1655 in excellent condition
7. 5513 full set, perfect condition

Of course, I could probably change my mind in 5 minutes.

Edit: geez, I went right over GMTs, what's wrong with me?!?! I agree with Springer about potentially getting a nice gilt 1675.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Get the one which appeals the most, and get the best example you can with the budget available. A DRSD will not be in that bracket, much less a full set, but certainly a great 1675 (with some change to spare), and maybe a decent RED 1680 set. You are also on the fringes of a good 1655 or 1665 with that kind of money, but not likely with B&P. You won't go wrong with any of those mentioned.

X2 - Karl summed it up fairly well. I would recommend that you find the best GMT 1675 that you are comfortable with in your budget. Complete sets from the later half of the 1960s should be available for less than $15,000. You might even find a nice, gilt dial GMT 1675 from the early to mid-1960s in your price range. Good luck.

[strafer_kid]

The guys have already flagged up some very nice watches and you are spoilt for choice. The trick is to have patience though and wait for the right one. It will pay off in the long run. Any of the vintage Subs or GMTs area good starter - good luck!

[Dr. Robert]

[tom_hanx]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

Doc, you are killin' me

[strafer_kid]

Very nice couple!

[swish77]

I'd go for a late '70s 1665 ... no red, of course, for your budget. Beautiful, hefty, stunning vintage piece. Forget the box and papers, IMHO. I recently purchased a full-set 1680 red and all the bits and pieces just sit in a closet. Some guys love full sets, but I wonder if it's worth investing all that extra cash in cardboard and paper instead of stainless steel (the watch itself.) Either way, good luck in your search! It'll be fun!

[bzabodyn]

1665 great white hands down. The domed crystal/matte dial/larger size make for one of the best Rolex sport watches ever made.

BZ

[cruvon]

In that range, I would go with a red sub, though a gilt 1675 is tempting too as also a radial 1675 GMT like this one http://www.sheartime.com/product/197...aster-ref-1675

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[omitohud]

I don't think u can go wrong with a red sub. If u r lucky a meter first in good condition. Not likely a complete set but you'll never know. Good luck


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[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

You just have to love the Sea Dweller. With a bit more mass, it wears like a modern watch, but at a glance it is unmistakably vintage. In addition the superdome crystals give the matte dials underneath a unique look. Here is mine. A 5.3 mil serial, a little outside the range you are looking for but still worth considering.

i would get something EXACTLY like this!

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by cruvon

In that range, I would go with a red sub, though a gilt 1675 is tempting too as also a radial 1675 GMT like this one http://www.sheartime.com/product/197...aster-ref-1675

[/URL]

Wow. Nice Navitimer!

[The_Walrus]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd go for a late '70s 1665 ... no red, of course, for your budget. Beautiful, hefty, stunning vintage piece. Forget the box and papers, IMHO. I recently purchased a full-set 1680 red and all the bits and pieces just sit in a closet. Some guys love full sets, but I wonder if it's worth investing all that extra cash in cardboard and paper instead of stainless steel (the watch itself.) Either way, good luck in your search! It'll be fun!

I agree with Aaron here regarding the full sets.
I think a watch with RSC paperwork is the better option proving it is all authentic.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Wow. Nice Navitimer!

Thanks mate!

[tom_hanx]

I am bummed that pretty much each website has their own version of sizes... For example, the 1655 ranges from 37 to 41.5 mm in size and mind you, without crown... If the good guys are to be trusted (Jacek and Andrew S kinda good guys), then it is 39mm but still, confusing. And 40mm is where I'd like to buy, my perfect fit.

If box+papers are not a priority, then how does one come about finding an abused 1665/1680/1655/5512? I am not opposed to service dials (hold your fire) for as long as the watch remains original - case, bracelet, etc... In other words - is a double red project possible? How about another of the bunch, the 1665, for example? Reason I ask is - if living in Geneva is to bring ANY benefits - I can walk my watch to the factory for restoration (almost)

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by tom_hanx

I am bummed that pretty much each website has their own version of sizes... For example, the 1655 ranges from 37 to 41.5 mm in size and mind you, without crown... If the good guys are to be trusted (Jacek and Andrew S kinda good guys), then it is 39mm but still, confusing. And 40mm is where I'd like to buy, my perfect fit.

If box+papers are not a priority, then how does one come about finding an abused 1665/1680/1655/5512? I am not opposed to service dials (hold your fire) for as long as the watch remains original - case, bracelet, etc... In other words - is a double red project possible? How about another of the bunch, the 1665, for example? Reason I ask is - if living in Geneva is to bring ANY benefits - I can walk my watch to the factory for restoration (almost)

you've lost me now with this post!? You've had some pretty good advice. Go and look at a few and try them on, and you'll discover which you prefer and can afford. I thought there were quite a few benefits to living in Geneva when I lived there, BTW.

[tom_hanx]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

you've lost me now with this post!? You've had some pretty good advice. Go and look at a few and try them on, and you'll discover which you prefer and can afford. I thought there were quite a few benefits to living in Geneva when I lived there, BTW.

I am myself very lost - hence the thread. Curious to know when you lived here and what are the benefits you refer to in context of vintage Rolex? Cheers

[roadsterdoc]

Maybe you are going to the wrong watch stores. I spent a week in Zurich 3 years ago and found several small shops with both vintage and late model Rolexes. They were located in large shopping areas that were easy to find by a tourist like me. I was looking for gifts to take home, such as cookoo clock and music boxes. Living there, you likely avoid such shopping areas!


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[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by tom_hanx

I am myself very lost - hence the thread. Curious to know when you lived here and what are the benefits you refer to in context of vintage Rolex? Cheers

I lived in Versoix, and worked in Geneva in 1989/90. Long time ago! Beautiful city.

I meant the benefits in general, not specifically regarding vintage watches.
Ironically, there's not a lot there, for the 'home' of ROLEX. Ponti is one dealer I know of, but he's pricey…