Rolex Papers

[marcusgrr]

I have a question for the Rolex professionals, but first hope everyone is staying safe during these times.

I have an opportunity to purchase a preowned Rolex that I have been looking to acquire for a while now, however, it comes without papers. Given that it is from a Trusted Grey/Seller, I'm not concerned with the authenticity of the piece. My preference would be a full set, but without the original warranty papers, it wont be. If i decide to send to Rolex RSC (once they open) for a movement servicing and get the plastic warranty card, will it then become a "full set"?

Thanks everyone.

[sp006]

RSC will not restore your lost plastic warranty card. They will provide papers that show your watch's serial is authentic and that service has been provided on the piece in question.

You'll have to use that paperwork as proof of authenticity in the future when/if you sell. In my experience, some future buyers are still not satisfied that you don't have that shiny (not really shiny) plastic card. It's silly and doesn't really matter but just wanted to share my previous experiences.


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[m j b]

I concur with @sp006, including his assessment that a future buyer still won't be happy with it. It's an annoying reality in the secondary market, that an obsolete expired easily faked piece of plastic can mean upwards of $1000 of value.

Natch if you never intend to sell it, then it doesn't matter.

Now, if the RSC does send a new warranty card after a service, then yes, I think that would count as a "full set" to 90% of buyers and would actually be worth even more than the original card to someone like me, who would appreciate the fact that it was recently serviced.

[NKflyer]

OP, you have received two excellent responses so far. The only thing I might add is what is the age of the piece in question? Although the original warranty card/paper will always add some value, the absence of it becomes more excusable over time, in my opinion. Many, if not the majority of, vintage pieces are sans paperwork, for example.

[Michael V]

Paperwork and plastic are a must for almost all. I hope the watch from the grey is discounted since its missing it.

[bogdanco]

OP if you allow me to add one other question/point for the others - i always linked the presence of papers to the fact that the watch is not stolen. In others experience and on the basis of "buy the seller" shall the lack of papers be a concern if the seller is a grey with no significant trades on the forum or flawless rating on ebay?

[billfredericks]

This could be (relatively) reference dependent. What watch are you considering?

[marcusgrr]

Thanks guys! This is really great information. The watch is an early 1980s Explorer II. Trustworthy grey dealer that I've sold to before, and have referred to others. I've sold before in the past, always something that I bought from an AD in my earlier years. So I was wondering how having something without papers would affect if I ended up selling this piece down the road as well. Thank you everyone!

[NKflyer]

In this case, I don't think buying a loose watch is out of the ordinary at all. Sure, it would be worth more with documentation but on the flip side, you're paying less to buy it. Got a link to this 16550 for us to check out?

[Lex_Ordo]

The old paper two year warranty and the new 5 year plastic card warranty are simply to prove that the watch is within the original warranty period if you need service for some reason.
After the warranty period is over, those pieces mean nothing and can be discarded. No one wants a warranty paper or card with someone else's name on it. The value is in the watch. Not the paper or card that accompany it.

Every time you send a watch to RSC, it will get paperwork to warranty the work just performed.

[johnjm]

They serve an important purpose here where I live. Box and papers support the fact that the watch being sold is not stolen or involved in a murder.

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[joli160]

The papers are nothing more than outdated warranty.
In itself totally useless.

It just so happens that there are many many people like me who will never ever buy a watch without it.

Buy the watch for keeps is fine, if ever you want to sell you limit your market considerably.

A service card is nothing more than a laminated piece of paper and can never replace the original docs that came with the watch when first purchased from a collectors point of view.
Than again, something is better than nothing

[Dennisoul]

You won’t lose out if you did come to sell it.......papers do add value to it in the selling market, but as your watch will be priced accordingly without papers no worries at all. When you get it serviced you’ll get the 2 year international service guarantee card, which in itself is worth having and keeping as it tells the next owner when it was actually serviced. This is a selling plus to a lot of buyers like myself.

[sp006]

Originally Posted by joli160

The papers are nothing more than outdated warranty.

In itself totally useless.



It just so happens that there are many many people like me who will never ever buy a watch without it.



Buy the watch for keeps is fine, if ever you want to sell you limit your market considerably.



A service card is nothing more than a laminated piece of paper and can never replace the original docs that came with the watch when first purchased from a collectors point of view.

Than again, something is better than nothing

Disclaimer: this is in no way meant to be taken as judgment or condescension

Out of curiosity (since I don’t get to ask buyers often), why does it matter so much to you if you’re purchasing a modern or fairly modern mass produced reference number? If RSC deems the watch authentic and the movement to be sound, I don’t know why I should be expected to offer thousands of dollars less. Again, just trying to understand the psychology behind it as it’s helpful to learn.

All the best and stay safe out there!


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[Father and Son]

It matters. Only if you sell.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by marcusgrr

Thanks guys! This is really great information. The watch is an early 1980s Explorer II. Trustworthy grey dealer that I've sold to before, and have referred to others. I've sold before in the past, always something that I bought from an AD in my earlier years. So I was wondering how having something without papers would affect if I ended up selling this piece down the road as well. Thank you everyone!

I would never worry over papers on a 1980's watch if everything else is in order. The papers are more important on the current stuff as they are never lost due to common knowledge of the need for a complete kit to sell. In the 1980s people bought the watches to wear and enjoy, resale was in no-one's mind. If it was, they bought something else other than a watch.

[CaveDweller]

There are plenty of faked papers boxes and cards on Ebay if you ever decide you need a full set - and the market for these is driven by the "I need a full set" crowd

Then, when you come to sell, you get caught out by the people who can spot faked paperwork a mile off, throwing the authenticity of the watch itself into doubt

For me, nice if you can get them included, but at the end of the day it's the watch you are buying

As others have said, a receipt from Rolex for a service is far more reliable when authenticating a watch .....

[marcusgrr]

Thanks guys!

Interesting perspective on things, and great to see what everyone's thoughts are. Mine are: I've purchased a few Rolexes mainly through ADs over the years, but lately been looking at getting a few older pieces to complement what i have in my collection. Since I've gotten everything from the AD, its come with a full set (and ive kept everything down to the proof of purchase receipt). So it might be a case of OCD of not having papers with some pieces vs having a full set with everything I have bought in the past.

Has anyone passed up on a perfectly good time piece only because it was lacking an expired/uesless warranty card/paper? Has not having a card/warranty paper bitten anyone in the rear end?

Thank you TRF!

[joli160]

Originally Posted by sp006

Disclaimer: this is in no way meant to be taken as judgment or condescension

Out of curiosity (since I don’t get to ask buyers often), why does it matter so much to you if you’re purchasing a modern or fairly modern mass produced reference number? If RSC deems the watch authentic and the movement to be sound, I don’t know why I should be expected to offer thousands of dollars less. Again, just trying to understand the psychology behind it as it’s helpful to learn.

All the best and stay safe out there!

That's a good question, not a good reason for it I suppose.
Original papers don't guarantee that the watch isn't stolen and papers can be forged.
The same goes for service papers from the RSC. These also prove nothing. Who knows what have been doctored with it after the service.

A full set with everything included i.e. invoices, tags, warranty card/ paper is just nice to have even if these end up in the closet.
If you are a collector you want to have it all complete.

The market also proves that original papers are valuable, regardless of how old the watch is.
Watches without the whole lot are less desirable, it is like it is.

[Tools]

There are many, many more 80's Explorer II's without "papers" than there are with.

The "gotta have papers" is a fairly recent phenomenon and very prevalent on Internet Forums. Papers do not prove anything, and the vast majority of watches in the world do not have them.

If you find a 30 year old watch at a reasonable price that you have been yearning for, but you are waiting for the "full package", whatever that means to you; you may be waiting until you are old and grey.

[911991]

I have have every item from when I purchased my 1985 Submariner, but I like to keep stuff like old receipts to compare costs of items over the years. Personally I would spend a few hundred more for the same watch if it comes with papers, case, etc. Just a satisfied feeling, like buying a car with all the service records gives me a sense that it was well taken care of. But as someone said if you are just going to wear and never sell not that big of a deal. But probably most ppl on a forum are enthusiast which makes you a bit OCD, so having documents is cool and fun and part of purchasing a high quality item.

[barneb10]

I've sold pieces without papers, but I also bought them without papers.
The pieces that I love, have come with papers (moderns and classics).
However, I've also bought pieces with papers, which turned out to the be duds and were swiftly returned to seller.
So the old adage remains: "buy the seller". Papers and full set accessories make for nice toys during the honeymoon period, but remain in the box in the closet soon after.

Has anyone else's experience been similar?

[IndianRider]

I stopped at the "without papers." Don't.

[marcusgrr]

Originally Posted by IndianRider

I stopped at the "without papers." Don't.

Originally Posted by IndianRider

I stopped at the "without papers." Don't.

Dont?

[IndianRider]

Originally Posted by marcusgrr

Dont?

Don't purchase

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Lex_Ordo

No one wants a warranty paper or card with someone else's name on it. The value is in the watch. Not the paper or card that accompany it.

If this was true you wouldn't see a difference in price between watches with and without original warranty paper/card. There typically is a difference, one that only gets larger as the watch gets older.

Originally Posted by Lex_Ordo

Every time you send a watch to RSC, it will get paperwork to warranty the work just performed.

They're still not the original papers though

[csfischer20]

I don't see heavy discounts for naked pieces. Maybe a couple hundred bucks. Buy the seller, not the papers.

[Mr. K]

Early 80s? So close to 40 years old?

I'd ask on the vintage forum. I can see a dealer asking a premium for a complete set with box and papers, but not really discounting if it doesn't have it.

I'm not an expert on vintage watches but I see things like antique roadshow where papers receipts all the original Goodies do seem to add value.

if you like to watch and you're going to keep it, it really doesn't matter. But just the same, I think it would be totally cool if it came with all the original stuff.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by marcusgrr

Has not having a card/warranty paper bitten anyone in the rear end?

Yes.

Originally Posted by csfischer20

I don't see heavy discounts for naked pieces.

My analogy is like buying or trading in a used car. When you go to trade it, the dealer doesn't allow you any extra value because you bought the deluxe interior leather trim package with contrast stitching. But if you are trying to buy it from that same dealer, it's marked up because of that fabulous, rare interior!

In my case, it was the two times I sold a Daytona... I paid regular market prices for them, but when it came time to sell, since I didn't have "full kit" on them, no one wanted to pay me market pricing.

One was SS, the other WG. Natch the SS model was sold about 6 months before prices started taking off. My market timing is legendary.

[marcusgrr]

Thanks guys.

Where do you draw the line in terms of what must come with papers? I've read here some make regards to the age, the seller, etc.