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Old 22 October 2020, 01:47 PM   #1
overgrower
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Tudor Submariner Snowflake Franken?

I took a gamble on the bay with a Tudor Submariner. But unfortunately it seems to have some issues.

1) missing the case reference number between the 12 oclock lugs
2) serial number 761246 should make this a reference 7021/0
3) It has a quickset date, and from my understanding 7021/0 have an ETA 2484 which is non quickset. It is also non-hacking seconds.

I don't have tools to remove the caseback.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Old 22 October 2020, 03:04 PM   #2
harry in montreal
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Nice watch. It’s legit
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Old 22 October 2020, 03:12 PM   #3
harry in montreal
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I realize now your questions and concerns. It could have had the dial and movement from a 9411 swapped in. Overall it is a nice one and likely a victim of an old repair rather than a Franken. I was monitoring this one on eBay and then it was sold. .
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Old 22 October 2020, 03:24 PM   #4
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Any concerns about the missing case reference number? And doesn't the 9411/0 movement 2784 have a hacking seconds? Thanks!
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Old 22 October 2020, 03:41 PM   #5
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Well, it could have been a bad endlink, or worst case someone filed it off... but the serial number is there. What does the inside of the caseback show? I.70 etc?
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Old 22 October 2020, 03:44 PM   #6
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I don't have a caseback remover so I haven't had the chance to pop it off!

The case and dial looked pretty legit to me when I first received it. Just raised some flags when I noticed the quickset date and the missing case ref #.
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Old 22 October 2020, 06:29 PM   #7
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Lovely patina! Looks great :) Case, dial, hands and bezel look legit to me. Does it have roulette date wheel?

Some 7021s has it, some dont.
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Old 22 October 2020, 10:20 PM   #8
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You need to get the back removed and take excellent photos

Should be a 2484 movement. Hottible photos - almost make it look fake.

Looks like an S rather than ZUBMARINER dial
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Old 23 October 2020, 01:20 AM   #9
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I'll have to find a watchmaker to remove the caseback.

The acrylic is pretty scratched up, so it's hard to get a clear picture of the dial.

I know it should be a 2484 movement, but I'm already certain it isn't because it has a quickset date function.

Upon closer research it seems like the dial is a 94110 Type B because it has a longer Tudor shield and the m and ft in the bottom print are in bold compared to the rest of the fonts.
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Old 23 October 2020, 02:29 AM   #10
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The bezel insert has aged more like a 9411 from my observations anyway. Is the dial blue ?
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Old 23 October 2020, 02:34 AM   #11
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Dont necessarily need a watchmaker to open it up. A rubber ball or balled up roll of duct tape , with some of the sticky on the outside, will work in a pinch.

It could be the poor photos but the scratching on the serial side and model side of the case looks intentional. And not just from years of removing and installing a bracelet with the end links rubbing.
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Old 23 October 2020, 02:40 AM   #12
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No, the dial is black.

So I guess I'm looking at a case from around 1971 with a later 1980's service dial and movement?

The date wheel is not roulette and looks like a metal date wheel.
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Old 23 October 2020, 02:21 PM   #13
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Any possibility that this is a 9411/0 with a case serial of 76x,xxx?
I tried the rubber ball technique and wasn't able to remove the caseback.
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Old 23 October 2020, 04:35 PM   #14
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The case looks fantastic :) Nice bevels.
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Old 23 October 2020, 06:19 PM   #15
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I can't find the original listing on the bay , can somebody link me ?
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Old 23 October 2020, 11:10 PM   #16
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It could be the poor photos but the scratching on the serial side and model side of the case looks intentional. And not just from years of removing and installing a bracelet with the end links rubbing.[/QUOTE]

I noticed this as well, does not look normal but could just be the pics.

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Old 23 October 2020, 11:37 PM   #17
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If Harry in Montreal and Linesiders both like it, then my money is on it being OK. These are the two guys to ask about Tudor divers.
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Old 24 October 2020, 12:17 AM   #18
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It was a fantastic deal. How does the band look?

It’s a terrific watch
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Old 24 October 2020, 12:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
If Harry in Montreal and Linesiders both like it, then my money is on it being OK. These are the two guys to ask about Tudor divers.
There are some things I like about this and some things I reserve judgement without better photos.
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Old 24 October 2020, 01:02 AM   #20
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John, do you agree that the back is more consistent with a 7021, and not a 9411?
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Old 24 October 2020, 01:43 AM   #21
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Thank you all for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

I polished the crystal up a little and took more pictures in the daylight. Hopefully these new pictures will help @Linesiders in his evaluation?
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Old 24 October 2020, 01:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry in montreal View Post
It was a fantastic deal. How does the band look?

Its a terrific watch
Thanks Harry!

Band is a 7836 folded link oyster with 358 end links.

Bracelet is in good shape. Id say 10- 20% stretch.

Clasp is a standard Tudor clasp with a K1 date code.
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Old 24 October 2020, 03:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry in montreal View Post
John, do you agree that the back is more consistent with a 7021, and not a 9411?
Case (nice) and caseback are 7021 - consistent with serial # and easy for OP to check ; ) . The second set of photos are better and confirm a few things that were obscured - like underside of crown guards - by original photos.
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Old 24 October 2020, 07:26 AM   #24
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so whats the consensus ? how original is it ?
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Old 24 October 2020, 08:32 AM   #25
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I went to a watchmaker and had the case back removed.

Case back shows I.70
Movement is a Tudor ETA 2783.

So it seems to me that this watch has a 7021/0 case and case back.

But it has a 94110 Type B dial with the longer Tudor shield, Tudor clasp with a K1 date code, and a ETA 2783 movement which Ive read discussed as seen on some late model 94110s.

The question is, is this worth keeping? Or return for a refund. Thanks!
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Old 24 October 2020, 03:25 PM   #26
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Seriously, You are not going to keep it ? You don’t see many Tudor subs selling for $5500 with an oyster band that could also net you several hundred. It’s a nice watch. PM me if you ever want to trade it!
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Old 25 October 2020, 09:07 AM   #27
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I'd have it cleaned/oiled, MAYBE a new crystal, and nothing else done to it.
No parts replaced otherwise.
Send to a CW21 watchmaker, NOT to a Rolex RSC. Just Sayin'
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Old 25 October 2020, 11:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry in montreal View Post
Seriously, You are not going to keep it ? You dont see many Tudor subs selling for $5500 with an oyster band that could also net you several hundred. Its a nice watch. PM me if you ever want to trade it!
What Harry said, I was on the hunt for a snowflake for over a year before making a purchase and I never found anything below 7k .Might have some swapped parts but I think at this price its still a good buy, nice beater/project watch.
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Old 26 October 2020, 10:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overgrower View Post
I went to a watchmaker and had the case back removed.

Case back shows I.70
Movement is a Tudor ETA 2783.

So it seems to me that this watch has a 7021/0 case and case back.

But it has a 94110 Type B dial with the longer Tudor shield, Tudor clasp with a K1 date code, and a ETA 2783 movement which Ive read discussed as seen on some late model 94110s.

The question is, is this worth keeping? Or return for a refund. Thanks!

If you paid 5500 I say keep it! Its a really cool looking beater with a nice case.
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