The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Classifieds > WatchOut!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21 October 2020, 09:37 PM   #1
Covfefe123
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4
Scam alert: Nikloer aka bigsmallthings@gmail.com

So I recently got scammed out of a huge amount by a user on this forum by the name of "nikloer". Before i go into the details, i would like to make it clear that I'm not blaming anyone for this ordeal other than myself (for being too trusting) and the scammer himself (for being a scummy person)

I've made multiple purchases online through various online platforms such as Chrono24 and omegaforums. Never have i ever had any issues whatsoever, even if I've had to deal via a direct bank transfer to the sellers account. I usually have a checklist of background checks that if cleared, give me confidence that the person I'm dealing with is genuine. Unfortunately it didn't work out this time.

I negotiated with a user here by the name of nikloer. He's apparently a user based in Sweden. A pledge member with a fairly new account. However i did see he had participated in a few threads. No significant contribution though, just a hello here and a hi there.

The watch we were discussing was a patek philippe 5070g (i believe the ad is still online). As part of my background checks, i got his number, spoke to him on the phone and even requested and received a copy of his ID. My confidence in the seller was buoyed further by the fact that the name on his ID matched the name on the certificate of the watch. This made me feel assured that the seller was in fact the original owner of the watch as well. I also requested a video of the watch which was provided. All these things made me confident enough to arrange for a transfer to be made directly to the seller (as requested by the seller).

The first red flag for me was that the seller didn't ask me to send the money to a bank account with his personal details. Instead, he requested the funds to be sent to his "company's" account which was based in Poland (i should have immediately pulled the plug on the deal at this point but hindsight is 20/20). Me being a little blinded by a good deal, brushed this off as the seller wanting to avoid paying tax or something along those lines. I went ahead and made the transfer to the details the seller provided.

A week had passed with no news, and something worrying at this point, was that the number he gave me before the transfer was made was no longer in use. Everytime i called, it would have no dial tone. It was as if as soon as the transfer confirmation was made, he wanted to distance himself from me. Anyway, after prompting the seller via email, he mentioned that his bank had "seized the funds due to suspected money laundering" and that he was working on getting the funds released. What was also strange, was that he was working through his "company's director" to deal with the bank in Poland and was not in direct contact with the bank himself. Anyway, me being a fairly naive person, decided to give the seller another week.

Another week had passed with no update. When prompted again via email, the seller now told me that he had engaged a lawyer to help him "unfreeze his account" and "initiate the refund" back to me. This is when I started getting really suspicious so I called the bank in poland, and provided the staff with the account number, and all the details of the transfer. They told me, to my shock and horror, that the funds had cleared into the recipient account 4 days after i had made the transfer! This is when i knew that I'd been taken to the cleaners.

Keep in mind that all this while, the seller provided no proof of any of his claims of hiring a lawyer or his account being frozen. No copy of any sort of document/email/text from the bank, his so called "director" or his "lawyer" to suggest any of what he was saying was true. Not a single thing he was saying was able to be backed up with any sort of evidence whatsoever. At this point i realized that I'd already been scammed and there was precious little that i could do to receive my money back.

Beating myself up about it and feeling like a complete idiot, i left the matter alone. I figured i had no one to blame but myself. Strangely, I would still receive emails from the seller every 4-5 days with meaningless updates which were totally neither here nor there. Saying things like "the lawyer and the director need to go to the bank together in order to sign all the documents... They're busy people so they need to find a time which works for them both" and "got a message from the bank to delay the appointment" or my personal favorite "i assure you your money will be returned and if not i will pay you from my own money". Weeks went by with no progress whatsoever.

So at the moment, he's insisting that the refund has been made by his bank already and that i should have received the money by now, which of course, hasn't, and probably never will, happen. At this point in time, I'm just taking this entire experience as a very expensive tuition fee. Money comes and goes but its the lessons you take from it that stays with you forever.

Please let me reiterate that i take full responsibility for my actions. I am not blaming this forum or any of its users (other than the scammer) for anything that's happened to me. I hope none of you got that impression from my long rant. I am merely laying out all the details to protect other forum members from scumbags like this. If anyone needs any proof of any of my claims, I'd be happy to share email transcripts you. I have bank receipts of the transfer made to the recipient account as well. If anyone feels they have been scammed with a similar M.O, or a new user with a different username is requesting a similar procedure for a trade, hopefully my experience will help you to steer clear.

Here are the details used by the scammer in this debacle:
Rolexforums username: Nikloer
Contact number:+46 79 053 97 92
Banking information:
Account name: VALENZA SP. Z O.O.
Account address: Ul. Złota 61 /100
00-819 Warszawa, Polska
IBAN: PL06109025900000000144962703
BIC: WBKPPLPP
Bank: Santander Bank Polska

OK, long rant over. Stay safe u beautiful people!
Covfefe123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 11:54 AM   #2
Mr. Miami
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 881
my god. that is a horror story come true. i am so sorry to hear this. i watch this sub forum everyday as i am saving and working hard to save up for a gray market 5167a. i’ve been saving for the past 4 months and have 11 more to go. i couldn’t imagine losing all that money to a scam. again i am very sorry to hear this. thank you for sharing your experience.
__________________
Time is Money.
Mr. Miami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 12:30 PM   #3
tike71
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: NV
Posts: 259
A scammer's dream is a buyer who is looking for a good deal, and a willingness to ignore red flags.
tike71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 01:57 PM   #4
Where
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Waitlist
Watch: Rolex & Omega
Posts: 44
It's still live
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=10768984
Where is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 06:46 PM   #5
nikloerrolexforums
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 3
Hello everyone!

I find it strange that moderators banned my account before I could tell my side of a story. 9 weeks ago, I received a deposit from Norman. This gentleman has transferred a deposit of 25,000 euros to my bank account, which was blocked by the bank the same day, right upon reception.

The issue was the absence of payment details that lead to a believe funds are dubious. Those familiar with the European banking rules, know well that an international transferring from Asia to European business account without payment details will be detected as dubious. During those weeks of investigation done by the bank, I am, fully respecting Norman, couldn't sell my watch. I was sure that issue will be solved quickly, but it didn't.

Many times I have asked Norman to send a telex from his bank, I also gave him the bank's phone number so our banks could get it solved between them. I've done everything to make it quick and less painful for everyone. After a month, I decided to hire the lawyer in order to make the refund ASAP. I paid my own money, having got nothing from Norman. His money was blocked by the bank and because of that the bank also deactivated the internet banking. The director of the company, who has nothing to do with this transaction had to go to the bank every other week.

Before doing any kinds of actions, I have been informing Norman. After seven weeks, I told Norman that I have to relist my watch, but I did it only when our office guaranteed the refund, simply the refund. But I wouldn't finalize a deal before Norman gets the refund. This was an agreement between us, Norman. Was it?

Why all this? This is a ridiculous situation. Norman, you have transferred the money which are detected dubious by the Santander bank. I was doing all I can so you could get your deposit back. If I was a bad guy, would I hire the lawyer?

I have had all my rights to ignore you while the bank investigated your money.

I had a verbal fight with the office this morning - Why there was a problem with your transferring? Been questioned if I know who you are.

I also told you that I don't mind putting this subject on the forum, because I also expecting a support. But definitely not a scam alert.
nikloerrolexforums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 06:53 PM   #6
nikloerrolexforums
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 3
I ask moderators to check with Norman if he got the refund. I can imagine how he feels, but there is also me and my truth. This is not fair.
nikloerrolexforums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 06:54 PM   #7
nikloerrolexforums
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 3
Hello everyone!

I find it strange that moderators banned my account before I could tell my side of a story. 9 weeks ago, I received a deposit from Norman. This gentleman has transferred a deposit of 25,000 euros to my bank account, which was blocked by the bank the same day, right upon reception.

The issue was the absence of payment details that lead to a belief funds are dubious. Those familiar with the European banking rules, know well that an international transferring from Asia to European business account without payment details will be detected as dubious. During those weeks of investigation done by the bank, I fully respected Norman, and couldn't sell my watch. I was sure that issue would be solved quickly, but it didn't.

Many times I have asked Norman to send a telex from his bank, I also gave him the bank's phone number so our banks could get it solved between them. I've done everything to make it quick and less painful for everyone. After a month, I decided to hire the lawyer in order to make the refund ASAP. I paid my own money, having got nothing from Norman. His money was blocked by the bank and because of that the bank also deactivated the internet banking. The director of the company, who has nothing to do with this transaction had to go to the bank every other week.

Before doing any kinds of actions, I have been informing Norman. After seven weeks, I told Norman that I have to relist my watch, but I did it only when our office guaranteed the refund, simply the refund. But I wouldn't finalize a deal before Norman gets the refund. This was an agreement between us, Norman. Was it?

Why all this? This is a ridiculous situation. Norman, you have transferred the money which is detected dubious by the Santander bank. I was doing all I can so you could get your deposit back. If I was a bad guy, would I hire the lawyer?

I have had all my rights to ignore you while the bank investigated your money.

I had a verbal fight with the office this morning - Why was there a problem with your transferring? Been questioned if I know who you are.

If I was a bad guy, I would leave you with this.
nikloerrolexforums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 10:30 PM   #8
VintageVagabound
"TRF" Member
 
VintageVagabound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 568
A few things that need further clarification:

You claim that Santander deemed the money suspicious and froze the transfer. If Santander was the senders bank he would be able to easily stop the transfer and get his funds back. If the funds are frozen in Europe by your Polish bank, you should send the watch he paid for while you work to get your funds released. I have not heard of having to hire a lawyer to get a wire transfer released. I imagine explaining to the bank that you sold a watch and this is payment for said watch would suffice. Unless the account is under suspicion for other illicit practices (money laundering, narcotics, terrorism, fraud, etc) it shouldn’t be an issue and yet you still try to sell the watch. Wouldn’t the next buyer have the exact same issues with the transfer? Madness
VintageVagabound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2020, 11:15 PM   #9
Covfefe123
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4
My thoughts exactly. To add a bit more info, i also requested a funds recall from my local bank account about a week after i initiated the transfer as i was getting suspicious. I was told by my bank that if the funds were being held by the recipient bank, then they would be able to recall the funds. However they also said that if the funds were forwarded to the recipients account, there would be no way to recall the funds. Lo and behold, i was contacted by my bank a few days later saying that they weren't able to recall the funds as the funds had already been forwarded to the recipient. Meaning the funds were in his account.

The scammer clearly said in one of his emails to me that if the funds wouldn't be returned to my account by santander, that he would use his own money to refund me (i have the email for proof). I obviously don't expect that to happen as i am fully convinced that i have been scammed and Nikloer is a scammer 100%.

He is now, audaciously playing the victim card saying that his account has been banned because of me. I have taken screenshots of my bank accounts' transaction history and would be happy to show any member in doubt. There is no deposit of 25000eur whatsoever this past week. I know for sure that it doesn't take a week for a bank transfer to be sent via 2 banks.

I keep asking for any kind of proof for any of his grand claims but of course, nothing whatsoever. Please i implore members here, don't be too trusting like I was and always buy the seller. Never fall prey to something that's too good to be true. A fellow member mentioned earlier "A scammer's dream is a buyer who is looking for a good deal, and a willingness to ignore red flags." this is 100% true and exactly the kind of scenario that i fell for. Anyway, like i said earlier in my post, money comes and goes and it's the lessons we learn from our mistakes that we keep with us.

To Nikloer I'd like to say, I'm a legit businessman. I work hard for my money. I don't depend on ripping off people to enjoy my life. You clearly do. Lets see how long you can carry on doing what you're doing and lets see how far it will get you in life. Sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost.
Covfefe123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 12:58 AM   #10
CorradoBrit
"TRF" Member
 
CorradoBrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
Another example for only dealing with trusted sellers AND buyers
CorradoBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 01:39 AM   #11
Pongster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Marikina
Posts: 2,561
I’m sorry this happened to you OP. 25K EUR is a significant amount of money.

I have had deals before where seller’s name is different from bank account name. I just get supporting documents for both names (passports, business registrations, etc).

I have also experienced transfers not going thru (but not for watches) due to suspicion of money laundering as the recipient bank deemed the supporting documents insufficient. But in these instances, the recipient bank rejects the transfer and in a week, the funds are back to the sending bank.
Pongster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 01:44 AM   #12
MrJKLFoams
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Watch: RolexOmegaJLC
Posts: 466
Ive been through this type of situation but I'm lucky to get my money back same old story the bank withheld the fund for no reason blah blah blah. But since I threatened the other guy to report to the police and give them all the details suddenly he said the watch has been stolen and he sent my money back right away. Since then I only buy watch from an AD. Hope you get your hard earned money back.
MrJKLFoams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 03:42 AM   #13
TTalk
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJKLFoams View Post
...since I threatened the other guy to report to the police and give them all the details suddenly he said the watch has been stolen and he sent my money back right away.
Exactly, has this been reported to the police local to the seller?
TTalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 06:13 PM   #14
Covfefe123
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4
Not yet. I've complied all the email correspondence with the seller and will be submitting it to both the Polish and Swedish embassy here in my country. If you guys think making a report to the police in the seller's local country is a better idea, i will most certainly do that too
Covfefe123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2020, 11:07 PM   #15
GGGMT
2024 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 7,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Another example for only dealing with trusted sellers AND buyers

Yep exactly. I guess I always marvel at how this happens again and again. As the world turns ...
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 12:03 AM   #16
joli160
2024 Pledge Member
 
joli160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NL
Watch: Yachtmaster
Posts: 14,276
Sorry this happened OP.
__________________
Day Date 18238, Yachtmaster 16622, Deepsea 116660, Submariner 116619, SkyD 326935, DJ 178271, DJ 69158, Yachtmaster 169622, GMT 116713LN, GMT 126711.
joli160 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 12:05 AM   #17
Pongster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Marikina
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Another example for only dealing with trusted sellers AND buyers

This has been the common advice. But i dont know exactly what this means.

I suppose all of these are trusted sellers -



Anybody else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pongster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 01:07 AM   #18
CorradoBrit
"TRF" Member
 
CorradoBrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongster View Post
This has been the common advice. But i dont know exactly what this means.

I suppose all of these are trusted sellers -



Anybody else?
Basically TRF'ers with a substantive and long presence (over 12 months) of contributions to TRF with many successful buy and/or sell transactions and who offer verifiable references from other well-known members. Neither the buyer or seller here meet these criteria to attain my 'trusted' threshold. YMMV
CorradoBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 08:29 PM   #19
Pongster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Marikina
Posts: 2,561
So when we advise members to buy from a TRF Trusted Seller, what it really means is do your due diligence? There really is no definitive source of which sellers are actual TRF Trusted Sellers?
Pongster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 11:27 PM   #20
CorradoBrit
"TRF" Member
 
CorradoBrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongster View Post
So when we advise members to buy from a TRF Trusted Seller, what it really means is do your due diligence? There really is no definitive source of which sellers are actual TRF Trusted Sellers?
Correct. There is no accredited certification of trustworthiness.
CorradoBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2020, 11:39 PM   #21
cop414
TRF Moderator & 2024 Patron
 
cop414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Real Name: Tim
Location: Pennsylvania
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71,815
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=730863
__________________

Rolex Submariner 14060M
Omega Seamaster 2254.50
DOXA Professional 1200T

Card carrying member of TRF's Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons
TRF's "After Dark" Bar & NightClub Patron
P Club Member #17
2 FA ENABLED
cop414 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 12:45 AM   #22
Pongster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Marikina
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by cop414 View Post

^ This I understand.

What i dont understand is the ubiquitous advice to buy from a TRF Trusted Seller.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pongster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 12:46 AM   #23
GGGMT
2024 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 7,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongster View Post
So when we advise members to buy from a TRF Trusted Seller, what it really means is do your due diligence? There really is no definitive source of which sellers are actual TRF Trusted Sellers?

Correct. TRF is a forum. It’s not offering any guarantees or certifications. It’s a forum for discussion, and those discussions naturally trend to ‘hey who’s a great seller.’ Multiply that by years and 10000s of posts, patterns emerge. Look around the forum; google names; who’s who section, see how many posts someone has had. Etc etc etc. This seems pretty obvious...
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 12:57 AM   #24
Pongster
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Marikina
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGGMT View Post
Correct. TRF is a forum. It’s not offering any guarantees or certifications. It’s a forum for discussion, and those discussions naturally trend to ‘hey who’s a great seller.’ Multiply that by years and 10000s of posts, patterns emerge. Look around the forum; google names; who’s who section, see how many posts someone has had. Etc etc etc. This seems pretty obvious...
I guess not obvious enough as several still get scammed.

Plus one cant just rely on the credentials of a seller as there have been a number of instances of accounts (with good references and track record) getting hacked.

Anyway, personally, i dont trust any seller from the get go. I do my due diligence before i decide to take the risk. I know there’s no 100% sure thing anyway. Just a matter of significantly mitigating one’s risk.
Pongster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 02:34 AM   #25
GGGMT
2024 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 7,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongster View Post
I guess not obvious enough as several still get scammed.

Plus one cant just rely on the credentials of a seller as there have been a number of instances of accounts (with good references and track record) getting hacked.

Anyway, personally, i dont trust any seller from the get go. I do my due diligence before i decide to take the risk. I know there’s no 100% sure thing anyway. Just a matter of significantly mitigating one’s risk.

Agreed on all points. People get scammed because they’re not careful and looking for a ‘good deal.’ For all but a lucky few, this is a retail hobby. Save money on groceries or housing or other non-essentials, and when buying watches buy the pieces you love from the most renowned sellers!
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 06:32 AM   #26
cvo
"TRF" Member
 
cvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Real Name: C Vo
Location: Georgia
Watch: 117610LN 116610LN
Posts: 1,011
Sorry to hear this sad story. ADs and sellers like DavidSW are the ways to go. Pay more for added security and peace of mind.
cvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2020, 09:29 AM   #27
CorradoBrit
"TRF" Member
 
CorradoBrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGGMT View Post
Agreed on all points. People get scammed because they’re not careful and looking for a ‘good deal.’ For all but a lucky few, this is a retail hobby. Save money on groceries or housing or other non-essentials, and when buying watches buy the pieces you love from the most renowned sellers!
This is unfortunately the sad truth. So many of these threads start by saying they saw the red flags, chose to ignore them, and still proceeded with the purchase, with the inevitable outcome. 'Trust' has to be gleaned and established from several directions.
CorradoBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beware , patek 5070 , scam alert , scammer


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.