The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 12 January 2020, 02:24 AM   #1
twnturbo
"TRF" Member
 
twnturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SoCal
Watch: 1675 GMT/1680 MKIV
Posts: 319
So that's how they do that

Now I see how they get those crisp edges on beat up watches haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Rolex 1680 Red Submariner MKIV Full set
Rolex 1675 Pepsi GMT Full set
Rolex 1675 GMT Radial dial Full set
TAG Heuer Carrera Chronograph Day Date
Bell & Ross BR03-92
twnturbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:30 AM   #2
offrdmania
2024 Pledge Member
 
offrdmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Matt
Location: Wine Country, Ca
Posts: 5,810
A very controversial subject for vintage watches
__________________
TRF Member 11738
offrdmania is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:31 AM   #3
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Personally I prefer the worn bevel compared to the ugly recut lug. It looks way better.
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:44 AM   #4
JD305
"TRF" Member
 
JD305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Miami
Watch: Long E 1675
Posts: 181
This is pretty amazing how they can get the edges back to original!

I guess the debate is between purist collectors (keep it as it is), and those that are looking to get back the original look, along with new crystal and new crown. Is this any different than those the own antique cars and perform body work?

I understand if you have a vintage piece where the box and paperwork is intact, however if you picked up a vintage Sub or GMT and want to have it serviced? The movement would obviously need to be overhauled. If the case edges are overpolished or really dinged, or the caseback/case have significant pitting ... would one want to have this repaired in order to keep the watch water proofing? The issue I do see with laser welding the case is that you will probably have to replace the bezel, otherwise you have this new looking case, with an old and polished bezel. You then you lose that "in original condition"?

I guess "original" condition is relative .. it can have 1 polish or 5 polishes? is the edge intact?
JD305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 03:14 AM   #5
bayerische
"TRF" Member
 
bayerische's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Andreas
Location: Margaritaville
Watch: Smurf
Posts: 19,879
I'd take the redone lug everyday. Hate the over polished sticks we see on almost every Rolex these days. A fool and his capecod.....
__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
bayerische is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 03:21 AM   #6
zapokee
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,342
Very nice if declared at sale, but therein lies the problem...
zapokee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 03:24 AM   #7
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
Very nice if declared at sale, but therein lies the problem...
Not like it is difficult to spot something recently recut.
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 03:51 AM   #8
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,841
While it looks good, you can see that the new profile is obviously not very similar to the original.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 03:55 AM   #9
JD305
"TRF" Member
 
JD305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Miami
Watch: Long E 1675
Posts: 181
true! ... the original edge would have been wider as it approaches the lug curve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
While it looks good, you can see that the new profile is obviously not very similar to the original.
JD305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 04:34 AM   #10
zapokee
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Not like it is difficult to spot something recently recut.
This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.
zapokee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 04:52 AM   #11
roh123
"TRF" Member
 
roh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Per
Location: Sweden
Watch: Gilt Rolex
Posts: 2,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.
Perhaps. I still think people used to handle good watches will notice.

But yes; of course it should be disclosed when sold. Far from all buyers know what they do.
__________________
Instagram: @perj123
roh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 05:52 AM   #12
JD305
"TRF" Member
 
JD305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Miami
Watch: Long E 1675
Posts: 181
This make authentication a bit more challenging ... and a trusted seller will have to be certain that the description they are providing is accurate, else they lose their credibility. Curious to know if laser welded can be seen un UV light or some other easily available method ... for those sellers that claim 100% crisp case edges.

Very old case sets are made of 304 stainless which was subject to pitting between case and caseback. Also, vintage cases have tell tale signs of end link dents and dings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.
JD305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:08 AM   #13
1watch
"TRF" Member
 
1watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 657
So that's how they do that

To each their own...but to purist collectors that value originality, I would recommend preserving the case condition if it was unpolished and solid. It keeps the dimensions correct and is worth much more than a recut case. The recuts look too good if recent as well for the age of the watch. I also think some are trying to pass off pieces with past case work as unpolished and it takes study and expert opinion to validate condition. A true unpolished case is getting harder to find on many acrylic crystal sport model pieces and is becoming a much greater contributor to collector value these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:22 AM   #14
miamiclay
2024 Pledge Member
 
miamiclay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD305 View Post
Curious to know if laser welded can be seen un UV light or some other easily available method ... for those sellers that claim 100% crisp case edges.
Idk about “easily available,” but see THIS thread ...
miamiclay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:24 AM   #15
Kingface66
2024 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Empire State
Watch: 1966 Rolex 5513
Posts: 3,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watch View Post
To each their own...but to purist collectors like myself that value originality, I would keep the case original if it was unpolished.
If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.
Kingface66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:31 AM   #16
1watch
"TRF" Member
 
1watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingface66 View Post
If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.


I’ve heard some have done case work on original but scratched/dinged pieces as well. It was more a more common practice before original case condition elevated in desire and value for vintage over the past few years. That’s fine if owners do for their enjoyment and don’t intend to sell it trade as an original piece down the road. I currently have three unpolished in my collection and yes, they took time to validate. I also paid a premium for that condition. My issue is when condition is being mis-represented and at a premium price in the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:37 AM   #17
Kingface66
2024 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Empire State
Watch: 1966 Rolex 5513
Posts: 3,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watch View Post
My issue is when condition is being mis-represented and at a premium price in the market.
Couldn't agree more.
Kingface66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:46 AM   #18
springer
2024 Pledge Member
 
springer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingface66 View Post
If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.
Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990.

INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP
Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.
springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 07:00 AM   #19
1watch
"TRF" Member
 
1watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 657
So that's how they do that

Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.


Agree. If they look really rough/cosmetically bad and are sympathetically touched up, still very nice pieces to own and enjoy. Honest disclosure is key.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 09:01 AM   #20
JD305
"TRF" Member
 
JD305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Miami
Watch: Long E 1675
Posts: 181
thanks Clay ... good thread!

I would probably only laser weld the pitted inside caseback and case where the caseback sits on my 1675 ... that would help with waterproofing

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiclay View Post
Idk about “easily available,” but see THIS thread ...
JD305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 10:36 AM   #21
athom
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Personally I prefer the worn bevel compared to the ugly recut lug. It looks way better.
+1 ! I barely understand to do that on overpolished cases but on old cases with still important chamfers it is a nonsense...
athom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 11:19 AM   #22
shaunylw
"TRF" Member
 
shaunylw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Here
Posts: 4,504
The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. It’s going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.
shaunylw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 01:39 PM   #23
TimeLord2
2024 Pledge Member
 
TimeLord2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Valencia, CA
Watch: GMT Master 1675/3
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunylw View Post
The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. It’s going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.
Check out the link Clay posted or just search the titles for this thread "How to tell if a watch has been restored by laser welding". It can be done quickly and inexpensively. On another note very seriously considering this for my GMT.
TimeLord2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 04:12 PM   #24
1watch
"TRF" Member
 
1watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: US
Posts: 657
So that's how they do that

I think the experts will be able to discern differences in originality. It may just take more vetting than today. That said, it’s not all science and sometimes even experts make honest mistakes in opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 04:13 PM   #25
1665fan
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: East coast
Posts: 6,583
Laser welding shoes up As a stain on the metal after the test is done...as far as that pic it’s 3 different watch lugs lol.......the last one looks like factory NOS piece...that guy probably can’t do that
1665fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 06:32 PM   #26
bayerische
"TRF" Member
 
bayerische's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Andreas
Location: Margaritaville
Watch: Smurf
Posts: 19,879
I have a 1680 with really nice lugs.

Supposedly no laser welding, simply a case of a case being polished once, professionally, and not every other week.

I can't get the constant polishing of even the never Six-digit Rolex cases, they are being ruined.

My wife has a 14060 from 2000, it hasn't been polished, and it could easily go another 20 years without one. If it gets a polish after 40 years, and it is then done by a true professional, I'm sure it will look "freshly-cut" and "laser-welded".
__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
bayerische is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 08:12 PM   #27
mountainjogger
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Real Name: H
Location: North Carolina
Watch: M99230B-0008
Posts: 5,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.
Agree Sringer.
__________________
The King of Cool.
mountainjogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 09:04 PM   #28
2001jesper
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Real Name: Jesper
Location: Earth
Watch: 116234
Posts: 1,633
Happy to see laser welding on a watch butchered by a poor polish. On a case by case for vintage, but do agree that it gives an issue with regards to potential mis-representation if not disclosed.
Also wonder what is does for the word "authenticity" as its not fake nor franken and could be with all the original components
2001jesper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 11:03 PM   #29
Sublovin
"TRF" Member
 
Sublovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Watch: Lots
Posts: 4,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.
Actually “rat rods” are about as far from original as you can get. They have been chopped, welded, pieced together from multiple cars, etc.
I think you are referring to original survivor cars and barn finds, definitely not rat rods.
__________________
DSSD is the king of all Rolex
Sublovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 11:34 PM   #30
FTX I
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Real Name: Flavio
Location: N/A
Posts: 14,652
Amazing craftsmanship. Much prefer the new look.
FTX I is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.