5212A Prices dropping

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Its an interesting conundrum: keep the 5212 exclusive, and thereby the secondary price high; or release a few more into the wild which would take some of the acid out of the grey market? Still, some solid thinking here. The price will inevitably drop as more come on the secondary market (there are 12 on C24 right now). Although, I wonder how many want to buy this watch, and are not just speculators or those feeding the SS mania. Its a beautiful piece (having handled it in the Geneva PP boutique), but I found the dial too busy.

I would buy it as a keeper. The busy dial is exactly why I like it.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by liljctl

You are easy to read, you end everything with a LOL.

Josh100 is difficult to read. LOL

Lol

[singaporepatek]

Called Patek AD in Seattle and was told there is a 3 year waitlist for 5212 and most AD will only get 1 per year

Prices definitely won’t be coming down anytime soon

[np2016]

If I could get a 5212a from my AD I'd buy it today! I normally hate dress watches but this one to me is a must get.

[Josh1000]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

Called Patek AD in Seattle and was told there is a 3 year waitlist for 5212 and most AD will only get 1 per year

Prices definitely won’t be coming down anytime soon

The first run is always small and then PP ramp up production....doubt this will be any different but who cares...buy it if you.like it...move on if you dont

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

The first run is always small and then PP ramp up production....doubt this will be any different but who cares...buy it if you.like it...move on if you dont

I don’t want to buy another Patek and lose my shirt. I bought 5170 for $85K from my AD few yrs ago and went to sell and couldn’t get an offer above $39k. Just disgusting. Buying what you love is NOT a financially smart thing to do. I won’t buy 5212 unless I won’t lose 45k like my 5170. I look at my 5170 and want to throw it in garbage because that’s how the market views it apparently

[Josh1000]

^^ I think this discussion has been had ad nauseam in various threads.....you are confusing collecting with investing....collections dont always have to yield a profit but offer an intrinsic enjoyment from collecting...maybe you neednto.lower your price point where it wont hurt so much....I have a very simple view. Why would I think a watch I buy today is worth more than when I walk.out the dealer? Only scarcity and desirability. If I can have a new watch at par why would I.buy it at par pr premium? I wouldnt...to ne honest on a $85k watch I wouldnt even be interested in a $10000 discount versus buying straight from.the dealer...it needs to be worthwhile!!! Also when I sell to a grey he needs to.make a 20% mark up and the final.price needs to be less than retail by a similar amount....as for the 5170 yes it's sad...but that has nothing to to do with price it just want really loved....I think the 5170G fantastic and a real bargain at $40 which is what I would pay today

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

I don’t want to buy another Patek and lose my shirt. I bought 5170 for $85K from my AD few yrs ago and went to sell and couldn’t get an offer above $39k. Just disgusting. Buying what you love is NOT a financially smart thing to do. I won’t buy 5212 unless I won’t lose 45k like my 5170. I look at my 5170 and want to throw it in garbage because that’s how the market views it apparently

I'm sorry, but I cracked up reading this post. One of the funniest unintentional posts I've read recently. The vast majority of watches lose money. Period. If you're buying watches to have them appreciate, you're missing the point.

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

^^ I think this discussion has been had ad nauseam in various threads.....you are confusing collecting with investing....collections dont always have to yield a profit but offer an intrinsic enjoyment from collecting...maybe you neednto.lower your price point where it wont hurt so much....I have a very simple view. Why would I think a watch I buy today is worth more than when I walk.out the dealer? Only scarcity and desirability. If I can have a new watch at par why would I.buy it at par pr premium? I wouldnt...to ne honest on a $85k watch I wouldnt even be interested in a $10000 discount versus buying straight from.the dealer...it needs to be worthwhile!!! Also when I sell to a grey he needs to.make a 20% mark up and the final.price needs to be less than retail by a similar amount....as for the 5170 yes it's sad...but that has nothing to to do with price it just want really loved....I think the 5170G fantastic and a real bargain at $40 which is what I would pay today

Yes I agree. But you are only looping in two groups investor and collector and there is much more than that. I am not a collector and I am not an investor I just love watches. When I buy a watch I am OK with taking a loss. But I am not ok with a $45,000 USD loss. I can afford to take the loss, but it also totally removes enjoyment from this hobby. If I buy an $85,000 Patek and it is worth 60 or so that is ok. Like my 5905P I bought for $86,000 USD equivalent and it is now worth about 65,000. 20K loss is ok but 45k makes me not like the hobby.

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

I'm sorry, but I cracked up reading this post. One of the funniest unintentional posts I've read recently. The vast majority of watches lose money. Period. If you're buying watches to have them appreciate, you're missing the point.

Why did you crack up? Because English not my first language?


If you think I buy watches to appreciate you’re also missing point. I buy watches because I love them don’t care about appreciation and I’m happy with 20K loss. 45K loss takes fun out of it.

People on here are so quick to crack down on people who ask about value because they don’t want to take a big loss. Not everyone who asks about value is some investor we just want to not lose our shirts and take a bath and that a purchase is going to be within our own acceptable level of loss. Everyone’s tolerance is different. You might be ok buying brand new 5170 for 85,000 and having it be worth 39,000. I’m not and it has nothing to do with “investing”

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

I'm sorry, but I cracked up reading this post. One of the funniest unintentional posts I've read recently. The vast majority of watches lose money. Period. If you're buying watches to have them appreciate, you're missing the point.

Just wanted to say most of the guys here actually don’t lose money... they might just say it to make everyone happy...you might lose money on 1 piece but in aggregate most people are prob neutral to up.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Just wanted to say most of the guys here actually don’t lose money... they might just say it to make everyone happy...you might lose money on 1 piece but in aggregate most people are prob neutral to up.

Your aggregate is probably +2,065,077, using my back of envelope calculation.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Your aggregate is probably +2,065,077, using my back of envelope calculation.

Says the guy that made 100k on a 20k watch with a rubber strap lol

Edit ...red rubber strap

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Just wanted to say most of the guys here actually don’t lose money... they might just say it to make everyone happy...you might lose money on 1 piece but in aggregate most people are prob neutral to up.

Only if you have Nautilus.

I have 5170, 5905, 5296, 5119, 5130, etc. all bought new in last 5 yrs and I lost money on every single one. It’s okay to lose money and I’ve kept all of them and don’t plan to sell. But knowing what I lost on 5170 makes me sick.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

Only if you have Nautilus.

I have 5170, 5905, 5296, 5119, 5130, etc. all bought new in last 5 yrs and I lost money on every single one. It’s okay to lose money and I’ve kept all of them and don’t plan to sell. But knowing what I lost on 5170 makes me sick.

Yeah. You lost money. Sorry buddy...

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Yeah. You lost money. Sorry buddy...

You have strong empathy fat ninja I appreciate your postings on here!

Technically I haven’t lost anything because I never sold anything, but it just makes me sick knowing how much I lost if I ever did sell.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

You have strong empathy fat ninja I appreciate your postings on here!

Technically I haven’t lost anything because I never sold anything, but it just makes me sick knowing how much I lost if I ever did sell.

That’s a good way to look at it. I view all things as assets...just a different approach. Just like stocks and property...if it went down my asset value went down.

[Josh1000]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

That’s a good way to look at it. I view all things as assets...just a different approach. Just like stocks and property...if it went down my asset value went down.

Interestingly I put my watches through the books as an asset but just like cars etc and even some of my speculative properties (piece of crap that I own in Boracay) I depreciate monthly....now in some cases I have a residual value at the end of the depreciable life but never more than 50%. I havent even really lost money on the other dog...5930...I paid £40 200 after VAT. With various price increases (ignore time value of money) it's probably a $48k watch today. So it's a loss of $5000 since December 2016 when I received it or $500 per wear 🤣🤣🤣

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

Interestingly I put my watches through the books as an asset but just like cars etc and even some of my speculative properties (piece of crap that I own in Boracay) I depreciate monthly....now in some cases I have a residual value at the end of the depreciable life but never more than 50%. I havent even really lost money on the other dog...5930...I paid £40 200 after VAT. With various price increases (ignore time value of money) it's probably a $48k watch today. So it's a loss of $5000 since December 2016 when I received it or $500 per wear ������

How do u depreciate ur watches? Accellerated straighline? How many years. Also what country allows u to depreciate them? I need to tell my accountant to move me there

[Josh1000]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

How do u depreciate ur watches? Accellerated straighline? How many years. Also what country allows u to depreciate them? I need to tell my accountant to move me there

5 year straight line with residual value....that's for internal use not tax. In certain tax jurisdictions the test is whether you are a collector or dealer. A dealer they would classify as someone who buys and sells regularly and whilst you may not be a true dealer you could be dragged into be classified as one. That would mean that profits would be taxed and of course losses deducted. I avoid flipping for this reason

[martinr]

$86000 for a new 5905P. That’s crazy. I’d shoot myself but can’t afford the bullets. I paid $62,500 new from my AD. And paid $65,000 for a new 5170R from my AD. Sold both and lost a little on each but never thought it would be otherwise.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Says the guy that made 100k on a 20k watch with a rubber strap lol

Edit ...red rubber strap

I see it more like a gift bro.

[singaporepatek]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I see it more like a gift bro.

What watch did you buy and sell

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

What watch did you buy and sell

I have bought the 5711 and 5712.

[benzng]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

Interestingly I put my watches through the books as an asset but just like cars etc and even some of my speculative properties (piece of crap that I own in Boracay) I depreciate monthly....now in some cases I have a residual value at the end of the depreciable life but never more than 50%. I havent even really lost money on the other dog...5930...I paid £40 200 after VAT. With various price increases (ignore time value of money) it's probably a $48k watch today. So it's a loss of $5000 since December 2016 when I received it or $500 per wear 🤣🤣🤣

trade that piece of crap you own in boracay for a 5711?

[Josh1000]

Originally Posted by benzng

trade that piece of crap you own in boracay for a 5711?

When I bought it was a minute repeater....now be lucky to trade for a Twenty Four, quartz. At 5711 I would throw in a travel wallet....actually two

[pam66]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Says the guy that made 100k on a 20k watch with a rubber strap lol

Edit ...red rubber strap

probably 23K and he needed to buy a new red strap:::))))

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have bought the 5711 and 5712.

Lol

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by pam66

probably 23K and he needed to buy a new red strap:::))))

The red strap cost 300 but worth 10k prob lol

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by singaporepatek

Why did you crack up? Because English not my first language?

If you think I buy watches to appreciate you’re also missing point. I buy watches because I love them don’t care about appreciation and I’m happy with 20K loss. 45K loss takes fun out of it.

People on here are so quick to crack down on people who ask about value because they don’t want to take a big loss. Not everyone who asks about value is some investor we just want to not lose our shirts and take a bath and that a purchase is going to be within our own acceptable level of loss. Everyone’s tolerance is different. You might be ok buying brand new 5170 for 85,000 and having it be worth 39,000. I’m not and it has nothing to do with “investing”

Hi There,

Your post was funny because you spoke of throwing your watch in the rubbish bin because it lost value. I do understand your point. Many try to make their passion "break even," with the head balancing out decisions made with the heart. Good luck with that.

However, I don't think I'm missing the point. If you say you buy watches because you love them, then I'm happy for you. But, if someone tells me they buy watches for the love of them but are really unhappy that one of their watches has depreciated in value, that tells me that the monetary value of a watch may be more important that intrinsic beauty and aesthetics of the watch in question (which is likely why you bought the watch in the first place). There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that perspective. It's just that 90% of new goods we buy devaluate. That's a simple fact. If you can spot the 10% that don't, good luck to you. In this case, you articulated that you cant look at your watch without seeing its value over its beauty because "the market" values it at less than when you bought it.