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Old 2 August 2019, 09:23 AM   #31
Ichiran
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I find the L1 an acquired taste with its dial layout, and somewhat pricey for its basic complications. At that price range, I will go for 5146 instead.
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Old 2 August 2019, 09:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by rossi46 View Post
I mean... come on, guys.



And it's not even close.
That one in particular L1MP WG black dial is unreal. Just sensational.

Is it yours?
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Old 2 August 2019, 10:18 AM   #33
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Thanks a lot for advices.
Probably will go for Lange 1
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Old 2 August 2019, 12:53 PM   #34
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Check this thread out... https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=689176

No matter what people say about how great ALS is, they are still a pretty much new company and new brand that hasn’t perfected their product line yet.
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Old 2 August 2019, 01:26 PM   #35
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I personally think they also make the best or at least most sensible split seconds chronographs


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Icons or Icons of the brand? I think Lang has 3 pieces that within the industry might be considered icons of the brand - Lange 1, Datograph, Zeitwerk.
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Old 2 August 2019, 04:52 PM   #36
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I personally think they also make the best or at least most sensible split seconds chronographs
Too big and top heavy unfortunately.
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Old 2 August 2019, 06:31 PM   #37
mongrelnomoad
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Oh well, what the heck...

My platinum Lange 1 Moonphase. Forgive the fingerprints. I do daily it regularly...

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Old 2 August 2019, 06:49 PM   #38
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Nice watches of course, but I would go for FP Journe.
A CB or a CS would top any Calatrava or Lange 1. If automatic then an Octa would be my choice.


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Old 2 August 2019, 06:57 PM   #39
mongrelnomoad
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Nice watches of course, but I would go for FP Journe.
A CB or a CS would top any Calatrava or Lange 1. If automatic then an Octa would be my choice.


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That wasn't the question, but I'll agree that the Journes do have a certain je ne sais quoi. I chose the Lange over the Journe, but it was mostly to do with the fundamental sense of solidity of the 1, and a faith in the company's future that I couldn't quite extend to Journe. All things on those fronts being equal, however, and the decision could very well have tilted the other way.
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Old 2 August 2019, 08:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
I find the L1 an acquired taste with its dial layout, and somewhat pricey for its basic complications. At that price range, I will go for 5146 instead.


Agree, an acquired taste... but if you have it, it’s fantastic. I think price wise , Lange 1 and 5227 are closer than Lange 1 and 5146 though


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Old 2 August 2019, 08:45 PM   #41
MadSpaniard
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I own the Patek 5227R, very pleased with it, really like the watch - to me, it's the ultimate stealth watch with that curved case, sculpted lugs, hinged back etc. Supremely elegant, understated, with a lot of quiet gravitas about it.

But, I'll readily admit the Lange 1 is a beautiful, iconic, distinctive and excellent piece that's undeniably finished to a superb level of craftsmanship. At a comparable list price, you get more watch with the Lange 1 than the 5227R, and truth be told, the Lange delivers substantial impact and sophistication on the wrist.

One consideration (at least for me): Lange as a brand doesn't (yet) seem to enjoy the comprehensive strength that Patek has, meaning, generally it seems that Patek holds value better, and has more historical legacy, mystique and pull in the marketplace (primary and secondary).

But that's about brand/economics. As a matter of pure craftsmanship, attention to detail, mechanical quality, technical merit, fit and finish, etc. Lange is up there with the best of them. Hold one in your hand, flip it over and look at the movement, and you will immediately see that.

As much as I like and own Pateks, I may yet one day get a Lange. In fact, the one that catches my eye these days is the 1815 up/down.
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Old 2 August 2019, 08:51 PM   #42
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That wasn't the question, but I'll agree that the Journes do have a certain je ne sais quoi. I chose the Lange over the Journe, but it was mostly to do with the fundamental sense of solidity of the 1, and a faith in the company's future that I couldn't quite extend to Journe. All things on those fronts being equal, however, and the decision could very well have tilted the other way.


You do have a point regarding the survival of the company after M. Journe, in my opinion the basic models wouldn’t have any problem but the high end super complicated models would probably be difficult to service.
Of course OP was asking between a Calatrava and a Lange 1, and between both .... i choose the Journe CB.


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Old 2 August 2019, 10:05 PM   #43
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As a matter of pure craftsmanship, attention to detail, mechanical quality, technical merit, fit and finish, etc. Lange is up there with the best of them. Hold one in your hand, flip it over and look at the movement, and you will immediately see that.

I absolutely fell in love with how the Lange movements completely fill the case. They seem almost ready to spill out, held in by only the thinnest strip of metal. There are benefits in each movement being bespoke to a single model. Compare and contrast with PP (and most other manufacturers) and there is absolutely no contest on the reverse side.
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Old 2 August 2019, 10:05 PM   #44
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Of course OP was asking between a Calatrava and a Lange 1, and between both .... i choose the Journe CB.
I mean this with no malice... but I never understood these types of responses.
The CB is a great watch, but presumably OP is not enamored with it... hence its omission. Including your preference of a watch OP has no interest in is irrelevant to the topic and sidetracks the conversation away from OP's intent.
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Old 2 August 2019, 11:31 PM   #45
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As others have said, the ALS is a far superior timepiece.
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Old 6 August 2019, 06:03 AM   #46
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The Lange 1 is amazing. You wont regret it.




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Old 6 August 2019, 08:00 AM   #47
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i find the ALS cases boring. they are all alike, the same sauce without any variation. nice movements though.
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Old 3 June 2020, 09:42 AM   #48
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Patek all the way


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Old 3 June 2020, 12:11 PM   #49
MILGAUSS88
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I own a few Pateks, unfortunately I do not own an ALS yet.

But I have to agree with Philip Dufour, and I think he is really talking about Patek in this quote:

“When I saw the Datograph, for the first time in the first time, it was the 90’s at Basel and uh, in the window it was a scale 20 movement. I saw that and said wow, look at that. And then I saw the watch in real. It was amazing.
I say the Germans are kicking us. Okay. Now the Swiss are going to respond…. I am still waiting for the response.. Okay.
Because it was just amazing, this chronograph. The way it stands, the way it works, you have a three dimensional view. “
Jan 26, 2020

At 22:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMin3cQkKA

Last edited by MILGAUSS88; 3 June 2020 at 12:12 PM.. Reason: .....
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Old 4 June 2020, 10:53 AM   #50
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i find the ALS cases boring. they are all alike, the same sauce without any variation. nice movements though.
In fairness to ALS, they source their cases and dials and hands (I think), so I guess it's not their fault? Nice movements though!
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Old 4 June 2020, 02:34 PM   #51
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I would go with the Patek -I think it is very important to describe the aesthetic of a Patek versus a Lange. The Lange in objective criteria will win on technical specifications, objective elements of finishing. However, there is a cold steeliness to the Lange while a lot of the "soul" of the Patek is the design and flow of case and hands and dial gives a warmth and passion that cannot be duplicated. The Patek will always feel like wearing art while the Lange will feel more like a machine.

The head will always go to the Lange, the heart will always go to the Patek. The answer as always, is both.
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Old 4 June 2020, 02:37 PM   #52
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The answer is Patek doesn't never to respond. Patek isn't looking to complete on pure technical feats or objectively brutish standards of beauty. Each Patek is a carefully considered aesthetic choice and expression of the designer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88 View Post
I own a few Pateks, unfortunately I do not own an ALS yet.

But I have to agree with Philip Dufour, and I think he is really talking about Patek in this quote:

“When I saw the Datograph, for the first time in the first time, it was the 90’s at Basel and uh, in the window it was a scale 20 movement. I saw that and said wow, look at that. And then I saw the watch in real. It was amazing.
I say the Germans are kicking us. Okay. Now the Swiss are going to respond…. I am still waiting for the response.. Okay.
Because it was just amazing, this chronograph. The way it stands, the way it works, you have a three dimensional view. “
Jan 26, 2020

At 22:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMin3cQkKA
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Old 4 June 2020, 02:53 PM   #53
MILGAUSS88
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Here is my interpretation of the Lange watches.
If you paint the Mona Lisa (movement), you do not want to put it in a frame (case) that is fancier than the painting. Although the case is plain, there is no denying the quality of finish. The beauty is in the details.
It's a descendant of the Bauhaus movement. Just not to the extent that Nomos is.
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Old 4 June 2020, 02:54 PM   #54
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Both make proper dress watches.

Patek movements that come with the Calatrava are quite long in the tooth (240 being an exception imho)

The right ALS time only 39mm or smaller would be a fine choice for a dress watch. Secondary market is recommended.

Calatrava is a Patek... price is high, movement PR is low and for the price I would want an enamel dial.

In the end I have considered them both and chose a time only grand Seiko that I find very satisfying at a fraction of the price, albeit for steel vs PM, and a very high level of manufacture with a modern 72 hour PR. (SBGW253)
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Old 4 June 2020, 06:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88 View Post
Here is my interpretation of the Lange watches.
If you paint the Mona Lisa (movement), you do not want to put it in a frame (case) that is fancier than the painting. Although the case is plain, there is no denying the quality of finish. The beauty is in the details.
It's a descendant of the Bauhaus movement. Just not to the extent that Nomos is.
IMO Lange represents the opposite of Bauhaus design. I find the design language quite baroque and a little quirky as well - opulence rather than "form follows function" and certainly not "less is more". The Saxonia Thin is one exception, but I don't see much Bauhaus in a Lange 1 or 1815 and even less in a Datograph.
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Old 4 June 2020, 06:28 PM   #56
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A very attractive model and I came so close to buying one but after some inspection I could only see the overlapping dials.

My OCD, my fault.
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Old 4 June 2020, 06:53 PM   #57
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I bought a Patek first before a Lange. I never imagined i would buy a second Lange before a second Patek. So i guess that says something insofar as which i personally prefer of the two.

But i do plan on getting that second Patek next year.
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Old 6 June 2020, 12:09 PM   #58
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I've had several Langes and Pateks over the years and still own 2 each. I think they are really very different. By almost every objective measure, Lange wins out. But the variation with the Pateks also make them compelling. I personally prefer highly decorated and aesthetically pleasing movements over any case design, so Lange for me. But certainly won't argue if anyone feels its the other way around.

To me there's no holy trinity, just Lange and Patek.
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Old 28 June 2020, 04:02 AM   #59
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Check this thread out... https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=689176

No matter what people say about how great ALS is, they are still a pretty much new company and new brand that hasn’t perfected their product line yet.

Not sure your point is made by posting a closeup of a movement that is finished better, has more hand work, and a more elaborately detailed and complicated construction than its Patek equivalent. Hand engraving, the chatons, bi metal rotor, superior anglage. Etc etc etc.

Picking one example of a bad one does not work if you apply the same standard to Patek. How many 5167s (and other three hander date watchers) have had the sticking date issue? If we apply your logic it would have to be said that It is embarrassing Patek has not perfected that movement considering it is their work horse movement and is in perhaps 10x more watches per year than Lange even produces. Especially so as it is a rather simple movement with multiple evolutions.


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Old 28 June 2020, 06:16 AM   #60
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I recently bought a 5127 having opted out of the newer 5227 because I find the latter’s size a touch too big for a simple Calatrava - despite it being a beautiful watch.

Now my Rolexes have gone, bar a Tag bought for me by my father when I was 12 and a Breitling he gave me when I was 24, my Collection is entirely Patek (that’s another 8 watches.) I’m telling you this to let you know that I’m a massive Patek fanboy.

So when I picked my 5127 I was delighted. I think it’s perfect. A beautiful simple and timeless watch with a lovely movement......
......and then, for similar money, my brother showed me his new ALS Saxonia in RG with outsized date, and I fell off my chair.

The ALS is SPECTACULAR. The quality of the finish, dial and movement, is on another planet to my (admittedly old) Calatrava. It looks like twice the watch. Three times the watch. The movement finish is sensational. The lustre of the hands, the dial, the details is something else. My PP has no answer.

It’s clear to me that ALS are finishing their cheapest watches to the same standard as they’re finishing their split seconds Chronos. It’s self evident.
By any objective measure the ALS is a superior watch (design being subjective IMO).
And to me ALS are perfectly capable of prizing Patek fanboys like me away. Their brand isn’t strong so their residuals suffer, but if they manage to carefully nurture that brand, Patek will have a true long term competitor that’s not a small independent manufacturer.

Have a bought an ALS yet? No.
Would I? I have to consider them. They’re just too good not to, especially used...

To the OP: I think at lower level Pateks, for the same money, the ALS pieces are in a league of their own.....
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