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Old 24 February 2020, 07:41 AM   #121
Skyrider01
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Over the past months I’ve been monitoring the availability of aluminum Centigraphe models as I’ve been interested in the possibility of picking one up. There have always been 3 or 4 preowned models available, mostly from WatchBox. Now there are none. The only one I found on C24 is now reserved. I think this would suggest the recent market moves are not just about the CB.
I agree that outside of the CB hype, Journe seems to be gaining in popularity.
Models that were readily available at boutiques are now scarce. And I am talking about entry level pieces such as the CS and Elegante.

For example, less than a year ago, you could walk in to the Miami boutique and they had every version of the Havana dials available. Now you’ll be lucky if they even have one. I was told that now they even have a waiting list for the 48mm Élégante.
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Old 24 February 2020, 03:07 PM   #122
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I agree that outside of the CB hype, Journe seems to be gaining in popularity.
Models that were readily available at boutiques are now scarce. And I am talking about entry level pieces such as the CS and Elegante.

For example, less than a year ago, you could walk in to the Miami boutique and they had every version of the Havana dials available. Now you’ll be lucky if they even have one. I was told that now they even have a waiting list for the 48mm Élégante.
Yes, there are now two FPJ models with waiting lists, the CB and the 48mm Titalyt Elegante.

All other models can be ordered, except the Resonance of course... until they release the new model which is due very soon :)
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Old 24 February 2020, 03:39 PM   #123
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Yes, there are now two FPJ models with waiting lists, the CB and the 48mm Titalyt Elegante.

All other models can be ordered, except the Resonance of course... until they release the new model which is due very soon :)
Wow.. even the Elegante is waiting list?! .. I own 48 elegante too but not the darken version. I must say that’s one heck of a comfortable convenient daily beater/casual/sport watch!
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Old 24 February 2020, 09:53 PM   #124
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The ressonance also seems to be particularly strong, the 40mm versions in platinum. I requested some quotes as to what dealers will pay for one (I pretended I had one to sell) and they quoted me 75K-80K USD...That sounds VERY strong for a 2nd hand watch.
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Old 26 February 2020, 09:48 PM   #125
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Well it should be a lot more expensive than that mass produced 5711

I have both and the Journe is MUCH more interesting


100% the journe CB is a way more interesting watch
1. Gorgeous double barrel rose gold movement with great finishing. Movement is finished differently for the CB. (not the boring single rotor 324).
2. Tantalum case—unique on any watch let alone a Journe.
3. Way less production numbers.
4. Properly impressive and hard to produce dial.



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Old 28 February 2020, 01:34 PM   #126
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How many of the people on this thread defending the insane run up in prices for the CB are FPJ owners themselves? This thread is starting to sound like apple fanboy posts on reddit. I could have purchased a CB in December at a $37k list price. Today the same dealer has one posted at $57k, just 2 months later. That’s not normal! If you think it justifiable, I have a tulip I’d like to sell you...
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Old 28 February 2020, 01:35 PM   #127
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How many of the people on this thread defending the insane run up in prices for the CB are FPJ owners themselves? This thread is starting to sound like apple fanboy posts on reddit. I could have purchased a CB in December at a $37k list price. Today the same dealer has one posted at $57k, just 2 months later. That’s not normal! If you think it justifiable, I have a tulip I’d like to sell you...
I'm a CB owner and I am *not* defending the run-up. I think it's absurd. And I absolutely love the CB and Journe in general, and am a huge fan and supporter.
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Old 28 February 2020, 02:41 PM   #128
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I'm a CB owner and I am *not* defending the run-up. I think it's absurd. And I absolutely love the CB and Journe in general, and am a huge fan and supporter.
Agree. I have a CB as well.

Love the watch and brand, but this is ridiculous.

As it stands now, I don't think I would buy another Journe again with the way prices are rising, even though there are 1-2 that I would like to acquire.
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Old 28 February 2020, 06:20 PM   #129
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How many of the people on this thread defending the insane run up in prices for the CB are FPJ owners themselves? This thread is starting to sound like apple fanboy posts on reddit. I could have purchased a CB in December at a $37k list price. Today the same dealer has one posted at $57k, just 2 months later. That’s not normal! If you think it justifiable, I have a tulip I’d like to sell you...
I am. Everyone who bought the CB before the run up in prices thought it was a superb watch that captured the qualities of design and craftsmanship which make some modern watches masterpieces of simplicity. It was, then, a value at full retail. Compare it, today, to other independent brand time only watches. Many of them are priced in the $35-50K range. They may not sell well, but you don't hear anyone complaining about how high the price is.
When people recognize something that is perfection they want to own it, not something else that's second best, and if supply is limited but money is not, price must rise.
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Old 28 February 2020, 08:20 PM   #130
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I dont own a CB...

But I have a Journe and I am a big fan. They are great watches, and have a quirky but beautiful look. The run up in prices is crazy on the CB, but now the whole line is rising in price. Used Journes are getting over their original list from a few year ago, basically 30 off todays list.
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Old 28 February 2020, 11:04 PM   #131
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I own two FPJ, one of them the CB which I paid US $27k for. They are two of the most special pieces I’ve owned. Was it worth the $3k premium at the time ? Hell yes. Would I pay current asking prices of double that? No way. But then again I wouldn’t pay current nautilus , DaytonaC, or GMT2 prices either.


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Old 28 February 2020, 11:21 PM   #132
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I double that.. me too I own Nautilus n CB.
Awesome collection, let's see some pics of these great watches you have.....
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Old 28 February 2020, 11:32 PM   #133
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I was just being offered around USD48K by a fellow collector friend for my 2019 Feb which I worn for a day then kept in the safe. I didn’t know what’s the market price are only till now! I am shocked or should I say pleasantly surprised.

So IMHO those who are on the wait list don’t give up yet. It is so much more economical to wait a little longer. You will never know, your “come pick it up” call could be only a month away!


Jen
Also are you Jen or James? Half of your posts end with the name Jen and the other half are James?
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=680910
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=676443
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=667624
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=659925
Just curious...
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Old 29 February 2020, 12:15 AM   #134
jenniferjanef
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We share an account. Mr & Mrs. Is that a okay?
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Old 29 February 2020, 03:01 AM   #135
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We share an account. Mr & Mrs. Is that a okay?
Guess you would have to ask a mod, just wanted to know who I was talking to. Would love to see some pics of your collection it sounds incredible!
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Old 29 February 2020, 03:30 AM   #136
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Guess you would have to ask a mod, just wanted to know who I was talking to. Would love to see some pics of your collection it sounds incredible!
Ken knows me.. we have been sharing this account since 2011. As for pics.. I am sorry I do not know how to post without using tapatalk app. Hope you can kindly forgive us.

We are very sorry to make you feel unpleasant.

HAGWE

Jen
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Old 29 February 2020, 05:31 AM   #137
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Ken knows me.. we have been sharing this account since 2011. As for pics.. I am sorry I do not know how to post without using tapatalk app. Hope you can kindly forgive us.

We are very sorry to make you feel unpleasant.

HAGWE

Jen
You have a better one, Jen/James. Looking forward to seeing some of those awesome watches you have, especially after being on here for 9 years.
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Old 29 February 2020, 04:51 PM   #138
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Yet another 25% spike after a week or two on Chrono24 ... serious what’s going on with FPJ anyone knows? Someone manipulating the market or something big is happening behind the scenes?

(ps: saw some gentlemen share on IG)
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Old 29 February 2020, 06:05 PM   #139
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Yet another 25% spike after a week or two on Chrono24 ... serious what’s going on with FPJ anyone knows? Someone manipulating the market or something big is happening behind the scenes?

(ps: saw some gentlemen share on IG)
Madness.

To me, this is classic market manipulation in an illiquid market with both constrained supply hoarded by a select few, and also a very constrained demand. (Let's be honest, not a lot of people actually know of FPJ, let alone want an FPJ.)
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Old 29 February 2020, 06:46 PM   #140
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Madness.

To me, this is classic market manipulation in an illiquid market with both constrained supply hoarded by a select few, and also a very constrained demand. (Let's be honest, not a lot of people actually know of FPJ, let alone want an FPJ.)
IF this goes south .. this is not good for FPJ despite this is not FPJ doing.

I hope for the best for everyone.
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Old 1 March 2020, 12:29 AM   #141
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If five people decide they want to buy a CB next week, the price has to go up. It's the law of small numbers and limited supply. What's not in limited supply is cash and next week the Central Bankers of the world are going to add massively to that.
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Old 1 March 2020, 01:27 AM   #142
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If five people decide they want to buy a CB next week, the price has to go up. It's the law of small numbers and limited supply. What's not in limited supply is cash and next week the Central Bankers of the world are going to add massively to that.
That’s a good point
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Old 1 March 2020, 02:17 AM   #143
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I bought an FBJ 38mm Octa Lune from Watchbox yesterday. First of all, they were great to work with and the sales people I worked with were nothing but class. As for market manipulation, I do agree that when you hold the limited supply you do have pricing power. And where Watchbox differs from others is that given their size, they can generally wait it out longer until they get their price. They worked with me on price relative to their ask but at a certain level they held firm, which was a bit over where A Collected Man is offering one. Ultimately, however, I was willing to pay a bit more for the convenience of working with someone domestically and with a company that is also a FPJ AD. I have NOTHING but good things to say about them and how they conducted business.

As an aside, I think even at their higher prices they are still seeing strong demand as there just isn’t much competing secondary supply. On the one I purchased, there were other offers in the two days it was listed as well, some at the same price I paid from what I was told.
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Old 1 March 2020, 03:28 AM   #144
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The recent shift in prices for the CB, Octa Calendrier as well as the Tourbillons have been all initiated by Watchbox. Don't be the stupid guy buying for those prices. You will still get all those pieces for at their "standard" price level from 2-.3 months ago at the upcoming auctions.
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Old 1 March 2020, 06:12 AM   #145
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FPJ CB .. What’s happening??!

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I bought an FBJ 38mm Octa Lune from Watchbox yesterday. First of all, they were great to work with and the sales people I worked with were nothing but class. As for market manipulation, I do agree that when you hold the limited supply you do have pricing power. And where Watchbox differs from others is that given their size, they can generally wait it out longer until they get their price. They worked with me on price relative to their ask but at a certain level they held firm, which was a bit over where A Collected Man is offering one. Ultimately, however, I was willing to pay a bit more for the convenience of working with someone domestically and with a company that is also a FPJ AD. I have NOTHING but good things to say about them and how they conducted business.

As an aside, I think even at their higher prices they are still seeing strong demand as there just isn’t much competing secondary supply. On the one I purchased, there were other offers in the two days it was listed as well, some at the same price I paid from what I was told.


Not surprised at all- as I’ve said many times before , watchbox will typically have the largest online inventory at any one given time in the US, and with their reputation and size of the company they can afford to wait things out until they get their asking price or pull inventory and relist it. Or not list at all if they have customers they know who are collectors. In a week’s time their online listings decreased by 50%- did they actually sell half their inventory in a week? Who knows ! For full disclosure I am a watchbox customer and have always had great experiences. The game is what it is...


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Old 1 March 2020, 06:27 AM   #146
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Not surprised at all- as I’ve said many times before , watchbox will typically have the largest online inventory at any one given time in the US, and with their reputation and size of the company they can afford to wait things out until they get their asking price or pull inventory and relist it. Or not list at all if they have customers they know who are collectors. In a week’s time their online listings decreased by 50%- did they actually sell half their inventory in a week? Who knows ! For full disclosure I am a watchbox customer and have always had great experiences. The game is what it is...


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I sense that if they have more than one of a model they only list one at a time to create scarcity in that model but as they get ones they don’t have already listed they post them. I was close to pulling the trigger on one from a collected man but didn’t for various reasons and Watchbox posted on right as I was deciding that they had gotten in the day or two before.
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Old 1 March 2020, 08:35 PM   #147
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Both of my FPJs were purchased from Watchbox. I have been buying non-Rolex from them for years. My sales guy who I have worked with solely for years is very open about their position in the market. They do somewhat control the market, and not just in the US. Huge buying and selling operations in Asia, and smaller footprint globally (Geneva, UAE). They can control supply to a degree, and will freely admit that. As others have mentioned they do pull stock as well, and they can sit on things. Their best pieces never show up for sale as they are sold to preferred clients that they reach out to.

All that said, it is what it is. They give great service, are also a FPJ AD, can get little extras for you, and if you are a long time customer they will really work with you on price. I trust them, and doing business with them is a pleasure.

Do I think they have manipulated the market a bit to drive prices higher? Yes, I do. That said, willing seller and willing buyer. The recent market movement for FPJ was really driven by high auction prices realized by a few specific models, and it has created a spillover effect to other parts of the line. Havana dials realized prices have gone up almost 10K in 2 years, per Watchbox. Nothing like the explosion in CBs, ruthenium, brass and Resonance models, but still a nice steady climb. Centigraphes are rising now as well, and aluminum sports. The point, while they do have some control and ability to price set, someone else still has to want it enough to buy it, and across the line prices have been rising steadily for 2 years. FPJ is just hot. Also consider that in my Havana and Centigraphe points above, in both cases those watches have basically climbed back to MSRP or near MSRP, so you aren't paying "over," for them. The CB is really the only thing analogous to a "hot watch" 5711/Daytona type situation where you are paying well beyond MSRP - I don't count brass and ruthenium or early 38MM as that stuff is all discontinued.

I am in no way trying to state someone shouldn't be wary about FPJ or wonder if Watchbox has too much control. I understand that. But, I love FPJ watches, and the prices are where they are and specific combos are now very difficult to find because demand is unquestionably up. If I had more money I would be hunting for an Optimum right now.
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Old 1 March 2020, 09:13 PM   #148
jenniferjanef
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Just pop into chrono24 and was shocked to see an Octa PC Quantieme (pt950) listed at 10% *cheaper* than the CB..

Anyone have the MSRP list for FPJ models 2020?

Thank you.

HAGWE.
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Old 2 March 2020, 04:17 AM   #149
impinth06
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Just pop into chrono24 and was shocked to see an Octa PC Quantieme (pt950) listed at 10% *cheaper* than the CB..

Anyone have the MSRP list for FPJ models 2020?

Thank you.

HAGWE.


Same, would really appreciate a list of FPJ MSRPs


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