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Old 10 October 2018, 12:35 PM   #121
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PayPal might not always be an option. I have even seen trusted sellers not accept PayPal, not because of the 3% but the chance they could be scammed. There are ways to move money really quick or hack a PayPal account or the simple filing a claim. Most times the seller has zero protection.

I used a trusted seller a couple years back and only accepted wire. I bought the seller and no issue. I did notice they do accept PayPal now but from verified members.

I wish there was a way that buyers and sellers had equal protection on financial transactions.


Good point!


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Old 10 October 2018, 12:40 PM   #122
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I wish there was a way that buyers and sellers had equal protection on financial transactions.
Maybe Escrow service gets us closest to this scenario.
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Old 10 October 2018, 12:40 PM   #123
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I wish there was a way that buyers and sellers had equal protection on financial transactions.
F2F cash only deals from now on! But what about the counterfeiters??
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Old 10 October 2018, 01:31 PM   #124
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Why not add PayPal as an option? For the extra 3% you have insurance. eBay is flawed but it protects buyers!! I’m NOT recommending eBay, just making a point.

I have read too many of these sad stories on the internet. Rolex is a scammers paradise whether you buy from a retailer or anywhere.

The legit Trusted Sellers should protect their turf. There should be some form of stamp of approval.

I’m a consultant and deal with similar issues in other industries.

I am very sorry for this buyer’s drama!


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Because bad buyers can use PayPal as a scam too. They have 6 months to file a claim after the purchase. There is a thread over on WUS where a buyer did just that. Claimed he didn’t open the package until just before the end of the 6th month and then contacted the seller saying it was damaged. PP did end up finding in the seller’s favor, but it took weeks and the seller’s PP account was frozen during that time.

I only take wire and I am not a power seller, but I do have a dozen plus references from 10+ years on forums and 10’s of thousands of posts on another forum. Buyer always have to “buy the seller” and that includes checking revenues, verifying the email/phone number the seller is using is the same as the ones on the previous listings to verify the account wasn’t hacked, and more. If you can’t do your research deeply enough to feel comfortable, then walk away.

I hope this still works out for the OP but it doesn’t sound good.
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Old 10 October 2018, 01:33 PM   #125
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Absolutely always use pay pal or AMX - I don’t care who the seller is PERIOD!
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Old 10 October 2018, 01:38 PM   #126
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Because bad buyers can use PayPal as a scam too. They have 6 months to file a claim after the purchase. There is a thread over on WUS where a buyer did just that. Claimed he didn’t open the package until just before the end of the 6th month and then contacted the seller saying it was damaged. PP did end up finding in the seller’s favor, but it took weeks and the seller’s PP account was frozen during that time.

I only take wire and I am not a power seller, but I do have a dozen plus references from 10+ years on forums and 10’s of thousands of posts on another forum. Buyer always have to “buy the seller” and that includes checking revenues, verifying the email/phone number the seller is using is the same as the ones on the previous listings to verify the account wasn’t hacked, and more. If you can’t do your research deeply enough to feel comfortable, then walk away.

I hope this still works out for the OP but it doesn’t sound good.


Good post! But PP, and I have worked with them in disputes, did side with the seller. So, for the extra 3% it works as a selling option. My recommendation is that Sellers offer the 3% option. Most buyers are honest. Many Sellers already offer the PP option.


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Old 10 October 2018, 02:33 PM   #127
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What about something similar to what StockX does. That is a shoe trading site. Buyer pays StockX. Seller ships to StockX. StockX verifies everything as advertised and then releases funds to seller and shoes to buyer. Obviously there would be a fee involved but what if the moderators offered this as a service and charged a fee for their efforts. I am sure people would be happy to pay a fee for that security.
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:46 PM   #128
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What about something similar to what StockX does. That is a shoe trading site. Buyer pays StockX. Seller ships to StockX. StockX verifies everything as advertised and then releases funds to seller and shoes to buyer. Obviously there would be a fee involved but what if the moderators offered this as a service and charged a fee for their efforts. I am sure people would be happy to pay a fee for that security.

Yes! That makes sense. Companies are very careful to make transactions comfortable for buyers. Your idea is good example. However, as pointed out, some buyers can be shifty, so it works both ways. As a seller I would be very nervous handing over an expensive watch to a bad actor.


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Old 10 October 2018, 03:01 PM   #129
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I’m in the same boat! Your experience is the same one I am experiencing. I did the deal last thursday and he said he would ship right after his morning meeting. Didn’t hear from him until almost er in the afternoon when he told me he got into a accident. He’ll have his wife ship it. Next day I got an email saying it was shipped with a tracking, but tracking went to a courier called next global shipping. When I called the number to track it the number was rejected. He (Rowan Kameron)offered to wire back the money until the watch arrived. He texted he wired back today... no wire received. I have law enforcement in my family and will do everything to make sure he goes to jail.
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Old 10 October 2018, 03:11 PM   #130
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I’m in the same boat! Your experience is the same one I am experiencing. I did the deal last thursday and he said he would ship right after his morning meeting. Didn’t hear from him until almost er in the afternoon when he told me he got into a accident. He’ll have his wife ship it. Next day I got an email saying it was shipped with a tracking, but tracking went to a courier called next global shipping. When I called the number to track it the number was rejected. He (Rowan Kameron)offered to wire back the money until the watch arrived. He texted he wired back today... no wire received. I have law enforcement in my family and will do everything to make sure he goes to jail.
Sorry to hear this. Identical MO with just a couple of name/company changes. You should pool info with the other two buyers. FBI will be more interested as money involved increases. I think we're up to $25K not including your payment.
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Old 10 October 2018, 03:19 PM   #131
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This is crazy 3 of us got stung from just this one scammer? I'm going to see if I can track down those listings sound like it was pretty sophisticated.

Did any of you guys have any luck tracking down any of his personal information or is it all smoke and mirrors?
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Old 10 October 2018, 03:58 PM   #132
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I hope he gets caught and do life in prison. Do we know if he is located in United States? Fake website, fake identity, etc ...

Get the FBI involved and bring those low life down!

Here is another identical fake shipping site.

westwayflight.com (public domain registered in Hong Kong)
skye-express.com (public domain registered in Nigeria)
lightpacecourier.com (public domain registered in Panama)
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:22 PM   #133
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As a seller, I take PayPal but only for transactions I can afford to lose. With bigger sums, it’s needs to be bank transfer. I don’t need bogus claims, and I’m not giving away free watches. I give lots of personal information that can be verified, and direct ways to contact me and find me. I’m not going to scam someone and go to jail and lose my awesome job over a few grand. I realize it eliminates many potential buyers, but I can trust myself, not others I don’t know, especially for sums I can’t afford to lose. It leaves a grey area and a level of trust from the buyer. There really does need to a better solution for both sides.
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:30 PM   #134
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A few things I almost always do but it depends on the circumstance:

1) Unless its someone with a significant number of posts and references and a trusted seller, I will engage in a call. Verify name and identity. I try to understand where they work, are they on linkedin or social media. Usually if its a $20k watch the person is relatively well off and they are at least at middle management at a company.

2) Try to get a copy of driver's license and link it to their wire information.

3) Do not go through emails or texts only. Check their number and make sure you ask where they live and confirm. There is ALWAYS a chance their account got hacked.

4) If there is any hesitation or your gut instinct tells you something is wrong, back out immediately.

5) If price is below market, ask more probing questions.

6) Ask for photos of the watch with a specific time (not 10 past 10 obviously).

7) Ask for watch history and how they became in possession of the watch.

8) Ask for details about their "insured shipping" and how they plan to pack the watch. If you know about parcel pro etc. you know that double boxing is standard etc.

Just some of my thoughts...
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:44 PM   #135
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A few things I almost always do but it depends on the circumstance:

1) Unless its someone with a significant number of posts and references and a trusted seller, I will engage in a call. Verify name and identity. I try to understand where they work, are they on linkedin or social media. Usually if its a $20k watch the person is relatively well off and they are at least at middle management at a company.

2) Try to get a copy of driver's license and link it to their wire information.

3) Do not go through emails or texts only. Check their number and make sure you ask where they live and confirm. There is ALWAYS a chance their account got hacked.

4) If there is any hesitation or your gut instinct tells you something is wrong, back out immediately.

5) If price is below market, ask more probing questions.

6) Ask for photos of the watch with a specific time (not 10 past 10 obviously).

7) Ask for watch history and how they became in possession of the watch.

8) Ask for details about their "insured shipping" and how they plan to pack the watch. If you know about parcel pro etc. you know that double boxing is standard etc.

Just some of my thoughts...
+1

- send a message to their Linkedin and eBay account to make sure their account is legit.
- search their email, phone numbers, name, address, bank information, etc.
- for wiring, do it Monday/Tuesday (takes 1 day for clearance)
- make sure seller ship by Thursday OVERNIGHT 1 day service (no exception) in order to receive it by Friday. Make sure the package doesn't sit in a warehouse or truck during the weekend. Even AD is aware of this process.
- if seller can't agree to the terms when dealing with high value money, then no deal.
- avoid seller with no references or newbies or flippers. They have no knowledge in shipping or experience.

- for 20K watch, I would fly out there and get it authenticated by a professional...no exception. Then again, I would just buy it locally from a local with reputation. There are plenty of Rolex watches out there....
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:49 PM   #136
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Nope, mods are not interested in policing the sales forum, it's a marketplace where the buyer must beware.

Sounds like the OP deviated from his trusted screening practices and went for a too good to be true buy. Lesson for everyone.
You are wrong Neil.

The mods police the sales forum very closely and have prevented many scams but with the number of sellers it is not easy to vet every sale to 100% especially when some buyers can be a bit trigger happy (no reference to this particular thread).
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Old 10 October 2018, 06:27 PM   #137
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Man I am really routing for you OP - I really hope this gets sorted out for you.
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Old 10 October 2018, 09:12 PM   #138
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You are wrong Neil.

The mods police the sales forum very closely and have prevented many scams but with the number of sellers it is not easy to vet every sale to 100% especially when some buyers can be a bit trigger happy (no reference to this particular thread).
They do and senior members here know that, but so as new members do not rely on them as an ebay protection type service, I am stating there is no official intervention or back up so the buyer knows he is ultimately on his own.
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Old 10 October 2018, 09:15 PM   #139
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F2F cash only deals from now on! But what about the counterfeiters??
This is the best way for both parties, and to meet at your bank and pay the money straight in. As for fakes, best thing is just to do lots of research so you know the real thing when you see it.
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Old 10 October 2018, 09:36 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by bearxj86 View Post
A few things I almost always do but it depends on the circumstance:

1) Unless its someone with a significant number of posts and references and a trusted seller, I will engage in a call. Verify name and identity. I try to understand where they work, are they on linkedin or social media. Usually if its a $20k watch the person is relatively well off and they are at least at middle management at a company.

2) Try to get a copy of driver's license and link it to their wire information.

3) Do not go through emails or texts only. Check their number and make sure you ask where they live and confirm. There is ALWAYS a chance their account got hacked.

4) If there is any hesitation or your gut instinct tells you something is wrong, back out immediately.

5) If price is below market, ask more probing questions.

6) Ask for photos of the watch with a specific time (not 10 past 10 obviously).

7) Ask for watch history and how they became in possession of the watch.

8) Ask for details about their "insured shipping" and how they plan to pack the watch. If you know about parcel pro etc. you know that double boxing is standard etc.

Just some of my thoughts...


This is precisely what i do. I stalk the crap out of them. Buy The Seller!

Rowan Kameron? Really?


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Old 10 October 2018, 10:33 PM   #141
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Appreciate all who have chimed in. There is no doubt I should have been more vigilant - I usually am and suffice to say this is a terrible experience. Like many here, I have worked incredibly hard to be able to indulge in this hobby. I have bought and sold 5 watches here over the last 6 months buying from and selling to both known trusted sellers and regular TRF members who, like me, enjoy this hobby and trusted me to make good on my end by overcommunicating and providing all of the info needed and reassurances required to provide them with peace of mind because of my relatively low post count and recent membership.

I am not wealthy and have worked so hard to save this money. This is a significant loss for me. I have shared my experience here to save others the heartbreak and hassle.

Here is an update on my end:

As expected - the watch never came. As of last night he had emailed and texted asking me for my wire info so he could send me a refund. I haven't sent my info because I cannot risk compromising myself further by providing him with more info he could potentially use to defraud me further.

@watchguy007 and @vipereaper30 - contact me directly and let's see what we can do in terms of organizing our efforts.

Regardless of the outcome, a very bitter pill to swallow. I appreciate all of the insight and concerns by the community here and will share more once I am able. Please PM me directly if you have experienced any scams involving this seller so we can coordinate and document accordingly.
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Old 10 October 2018, 11:07 PM   #142
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@watchguy007 and @vipereaper30 - contact me directly and let's see what we can do in terms of organizing our efforts.
Don't forget @VLPS although there is insufficient detail to know if its the same scammer
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Old 10 October 2018, 11:11 PM   #143
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Am I going to rule out others when I myself want to begin building a trading relationship here?
Yes. You know that you are honest but you cannot say the same thing about internet strangers...
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Old 11 October 2018, 12:36 AM   #144
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Don't forget @VLPS although there is insufficient detail to know if its the same scammer
Thank you
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Old 11 October 2018, 12:43 AM   #145
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Banks cannot unwind a wire without consent from the counter party in many cases. I wonder if the texts prove consent



Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk45 View Post
Appreciate all who have chimed in. There is no doubt I should have been more vigilant - I usually am and suffice to say this is a terrible experience. Like many here, I have worked incredibly hard to be able to indulge in this hobby. I have bought and sold 5 watches here over the last 6 months buying from and selling to both known trusted sellers and regular TRF members who, like me, enjoy this hobby and trusted me to make good on my end by overcommunicating and providing all of the info needed and reassurances required to provide them with peace of mind because of my relatively low post count and recent membership.

I am not wealthy and have worked so hard to save this money. This is a significant loss for me. I have shared my experience here to save others the heartbreak and hassle.

Here is an update on my end:

As expected - the watch never came. As of last night he had emailed and texted asking me for my wire info so he could send me a refund. I haven't sent my info because I cannot risk compromising myself further by providing him with more info he could potentially use to defraud me further.

@watchguy007 and @vipereaper30 - contact me directly and let's see what we can do in terms of organizing our efforts.

Regardless of the outcome, a very bitter pill to swallow. I appreciate all of the insight and concerns by the community here and will share more once I am able. Please PM me directly if you have experienced any scams involving this seller so we can coordinate and document accordingly.
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Old 11 October 2018, 12:47 AM   #146
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Banks cannot unwind a wire without consent from the counter party in many cases. I wonder if the texts prove consent
They can if a fraud has been committed and the receiving account has not been disbursed.
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Old 11 October 2018, 12:58 AM   #147
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They can if a fraud has been committed and the receiving account has not been disbursed.


Crooks take the money quickly for that reason!


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Old 11 October 2018, 01:29 AM   #148
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I feel bad when this happens to people in this community, but the thought process behind a lot of these decisions makes no sense to me.

The scammer joined last year and has 100 posts? Come on guys.

I'm not saying that every person with that short of a history is a scammer, but it's just not worth it. Go with the big established sellers that have been around for years or at least members that have been around for years.

3-4 references? I would want 3-4 hundred. There are guys like that here.

Hope it works out OP.
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Old 11 October 2018, 01:48 AM   #149
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Crooks take the money quickly for that reason!


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Thats why its imperative to act quickly. There's always a small window of opportunity. Also depends on the speed of wire. I know BofA offer 3 wire services with 1-3 days processing time depending on the fee paid.
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Old 11 October 2018, 02:25 AM   #150
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I feel bad when this happens to people in this community, but the thought process behind a lot of these decisions makes no sense to me.

The scammer joined last year and has 100 posts? Come on guys.

I'm not saying that every person with that short of a history is a scammer, but it's just not worth it. Go with the big established sellers that have been around for years or at least members that have been around for years.

3-4 references? I would want 3-4 hundred. There are guys like that here.

Hope it works out OP.
I still can't get over 6 pictures for a $17,000 item...
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