The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 9 January 2020, 01:11 AM   #1
Bybybmw
"TRF" Member
 
Bybybmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: Marty
Location: GMT -7
Watch: Rolex-2
Posts: 297
GS movements info?

Own both Tag Heuer and Rolex and now looking at Grand Seiko.
Is there some reference info detailing the differences, pros and cons, etc of the different GS movements (calibers)?

Thanks
Bybybmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 01:39 AM   #2
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
Spring Drive, nothing else matters (imo)
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:22 AM   #3
pickettt
"TRF" Member
 
pickettt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 5,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post
Spring Drive, nothing else matters (imo)
Quartz, Hi-Beat, I dig all Grand Seiko
pickettt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:52 AM   #4
JR16
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bybybmw View Post
Own both Tag Heuer and Rolex and now looking at Grand Seiko.

Is there some reference info detailing the differences, pros and cons, etc of the different GS movements (calibers)?



Thanks


You can read about the calibers on the GS website; there are also good videos out there on spring drive movement. This and the hibeat are what GS is known for, movement wise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
JR16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 03:53 AM   #5
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
I dig all Grand Seiko
Me too (as long as SD is present)
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:32 PM   #6
pickettt
"TRF" Member
 
pickettt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 5,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post
Me too (as long as SD is present)
You don’t have to tell me twice!
A69E3A42-4C91-4534-B179-7FA5A8F3CEA3.jpeg
pickettt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:38 PM   #7
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: SEIKO
Posts: 28,263
GS is also known for the 9F quartz movement, which is worth reading up on, too.

This is a good introduction: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...ith-caliber-9f
__________________
_______________________
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:46 PM   #8
Seibei
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bybybmw View Post
Own both Tag Heuer and Rolex and now looking at Grand Seiko.
Is there some reference info detailing the differences, pros and cons, etc of the different GS movements (calibers)?

Thanks
Quartz and mechanical. In my opinion spring drive is an expensive gimmick that does not achieve anything useful, AND you have to put up with a power reserve indicator.

There are plenty of options so you should be able to find one that sings to you.
Seibei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 02:56 PM   #9
pickettt
"TRF" Member
 
pickettt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 5,352
The GS website isn't the easiest to navigate, but toward the bottom of these linked pages, there are excellent matrices comparing their different movements:
https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/ab...nt/springdrive

https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/ab...echanical/9s66
pickettt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 03:57 PM   #10
Hosum
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: USA
Watch: GS SBGA387
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bybybmw View Post
Own both Tag Heuer and Rolex and now looking at Grand Seiko.
Is there some reference info detailing the differences, pros and cons, etc of the different GS movements (calibers)?

Thanks
Here's how I like to logically organize Grand Seiko movements. I like to think of 4 different base movements with variations on top of them.. Hope it helps:
  • Automatic
  • Automatic Hi-Beat - usually 36,000 bpm
  • Spring Drive - mechanical movement with the accuracy of quartz
  • 9F Quartz - this is truly a watchmaker's quartz

Then, once you start with one of those base movements, you get additional permutations within each of these: some have GMT, some have Date, some have power reserve indicator on the front vs back of the case, some are manual wind only, some 9F Quartz are so finely tuned that they are +/-5 seconds a year instead of +/-10 seconds a year.

If you are going for your first Grand Seiko and want to decide based on movement, my recommendation would be a Spring Drive. Smooth sweeping seconds hand. +/- 15 seconds a month accuracy.

But on the other hand, I think it's just as viable to de-prioritize movement and prioritize something else. Many people pick their first GS based on case material (steel vs titanium), dial design, case design, etc. If budget is a large factor, picking a 9F Quartz gets you a watch under $3k with the same phenomenal dial and case finishing that Grand Seiko employs in it's $5k-7k automatic/spring drive/hi-beat watches.
Hosum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 08:55 PM   #11
Dsmith1974
"TRF" Member
 
Dsmith1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Real Name: Duncan
Location: London
Watch: DD 40
Posts: 2,262
Could also add the Spring Drive with Torque Return (as seen on the Eichii Ii).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dsmith1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 10:33 PM   #12
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
You don’t have to tell me twice!
Attachment 1100339
All in good fun, this section is often too quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seibei View Post
Quartz and mechanical. In my opinion spring drive is an expensive gimmick that does not achieve anything useful, AND you have to put up with a power reserve indicator.
On the contrary my dear fellow forum user. SD is the one that rules them all!
And love the PR indicator. Very useful feature to me.
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 10:42 PM   #13
Ducati_Fiend
"TRF" Member
 
Ducati_Fiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Real Name: Ted
Location: Sunshine State
Watch: 116610LV
Posts: 22
GS make s some seriously fine watches. The finish is extremely good and I like the spring drive personally because of the change of pace and accuracy. I have the SBGA 211, 231 and 407. All from Topper.
Ducati_Fiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 11:31 PM   #14
Randy63
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scranton
Watch: 16610
Posts: 996
Icon1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post



On the contrary my dear fellow forum user. SD is the one that rules them all!
And love the PR indicator. Very useful feature to me.
I agree. I love Spring Drive and its reliable consistent accuracy. It has just as much soul as any mechanical movement in my opinion.

At first I wasn't the biggest fan of the PR indicator. I have since developed an appreciation of its usefulness and I'm glad I have it on my SBGA419.


Randy
Randy63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 January 2020, 11:35 PM   #15
Bybybmw
"TRF" Member
 
Bybybmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: Marty
Location: GMT -7
Watch: Rolex-2
Posts: 297
Now we are getting somewhere. Thanks to all for the links and info.

"Good stuff Maynard"!
Bybybmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 January 2020, 04:35 AM   #16
Seibei
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post
On the contrary my dear fellow forum user. SD is the one that rules them all!
And love the PR indicator. Very useful feature to me.
It is just my opinion, feel free to disagree. To me a Spring Drive is an inferior and over complicated way of making a quartz watch. Inferior in the sense that it is less accurate, due to number of moving parts it can not be as reliable as a regular quartz watch and it needs traditional movement service. A GS 9F quartz movement is sealed and should need no intervention for 50 years. It is inherently more reliable and accurate. (Yes, spring drive is a quartz watch, just more complicated than it has to be.)

Of course the Spring Drive has the sweeping hand motion and if this is of importance to you I can see the appeal. If not, then I really can't.
Seibei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 January 2020, 05:26 AM   #17
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
The sweep is IT for me. Inside is nice as it reminds me how we humans also need an electrical current to make our heart do tik tok but the sweep...love, love it!!

Btw, your opinion is appreciated, we all 'tick' differently
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 January 2020, 07:35 AM   #18
Randy63
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scranton
Watch: 16610
Posts: 996
Icon1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seibei View Post
To me a Spring Drive is an inferior and over complicated way of making a quartz watch. Inferior in the sense that it is less accurate, due to number of moving parts it can not be as reliable as a regular quartz watch and it needs traditional movement service.

The same case can be made about a tourbillion vs. a Rolex 3135. A Grand Seiko/Seiko Spring Drive watch has a certain Rube Goldberg machine like quality about it. Therein lies its charm.


Randy
Randy63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:02 AM   #19
Txkill
"TRF" Member
 
Txkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Rockwall TX
Watch: Lots
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy63 View Post
The same case can be made about a tourbillion vs. a Rolex 3135. A Grand Seiko/Seiko Spring Drive watch has a certain Rube Goldberg machine like quality about it. Therein lies its charm.





Randy


I think this is what’s so fascinating about spring drive. The Rube Goldberg effect. Yea a quartz is more accurate, but damn, the years and expertise to get the spring drive to fruition has a certain charm to it. Was spring drive necessary and an overly complicated way to produce a thing that tells time? Of course. But the moment you see the sweep, it’s all worth it.
my sbge249


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Txkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:50 AM   #20
Bizcut1
2024 Pledge Member
 
Bizcut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Real Name: Ben
Location: Valley of the Sun
Watch: 126331 126610 3861
Posts: 3,235
The sweep is so sweet...this watch gets so much attention when I travel...the lume at night in the darkened cabin is unmatched.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Twilight Time.jpg (266.0 KB, 174 views)
Bizcut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 January 2020, 02:01 PM   #21
BlueNote
"TRF" Member
 
BlueNote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 153
I own a GS GMT SBGE001 made before the GS mono brand was launched. I love the sweep too but I also appreciate that the spring drive technology generates power mechanically and it is not dependent on a battery. So unlike conventional quartz mechanisms a GS spring drive watch is not at risk of battery leakage damage.
BlueNote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 January 2020, 02:18 AM   #22
Bybybmw
"TRF" Member
 
Bybybmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: Marty
Location: GMT -7
Watch: Rolex-2
Posts: 297
Great posts, all of them. Thanks.
Bybybmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 January 2020, 05:20 PM   #23
Seibei
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy63 View Post
The same case can be made about a tourbillion vs. a Rolex 3135. A Grand Seiko/Seiko Spring Drive watch has a certain Rube Goldberg machine like quality about it. Therein lies its charm.


Randy
Fair enough. It is up to the individual, I will always take a Rolex 3135 rather than a tourbillion. I can see the appeal of a tourbillion and I enjoy examining something like that. Would I own it though? No thanks.
Seibei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 January 2020, 05:57 PM   #24
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
I am with this guy :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh6J8wjgeQo
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 January 2020, 04:57 AM   #25
Seibei
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post
I'm not. "35 to 50 years without a service"...
Yea right...
Seibei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 January 2020, 05:15 AM   #26
DVR
"TRF" Member
 
DVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Real Name: Denis
Location: Flanders, EU
Watch: Diver watches
Posts: 1,839
My JLC with a traditional escapement is now 15 years old. Runs well within COSC and has never been serviced. Believe what you want but 30 years is possible with SD.
50 years, agree that's pushing it.
__________________
AP - BP - UN - GO - GS - JLC - RLX
DVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 January 2020, 12:54 PM   #27
Seibei
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Watch: 114060
Posts: 2,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVR View Post
My JLC with a traditional escapement is now 15 years old. Runs well within COSC and has never been serviced. Believe what you want but 30 years is possible with SD.
50 years, agree that's pushing it.
Sounds like he got it mixed up with the 9F movement which is in fact good for 50 years.
Seibei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 January 2020, 01:47 PM   #28
Andad
2024 Pledge Member
 
Andad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 36,692
Why not visit a GS boutique.

They have most of the information you want.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 9D971974-10FC-4C0F-A106-481B7FD1CE15.jpeg (264.8 KB, 82 views)
__________________
E

Andad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.