32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[G.Montag]

Originally Posted by 77T

Or don’t care to comment as they haven’t had problems.


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Or too depressed to comment because they’ve had problems.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Whats a good timegrapher to buy ?

Here is an overview about various possibilities.

[1] Time Grapher App: cheap

[2] Timegrapher Instrument: offered by various suppliers, you can find many in Google: 200.- CHF max.

If you want to use professional material, that is provided by Witschi, Switzerland

[2.1] Witschi ChronoCube: 950.- CHF
The ChronoCube is suitable for watch collectors who want to check their watches from time to time.

[2.2] Witschi Watch Expert: 2950.- CHF
[2.3] Witschi Chronoscope S1 (G2): 4200.- CHF
Watch Expert and Chronoscope S1 (G2) are more a tool to readjust the watch after a service.
That is professional material, also used by Rolex sav.

If you have several watches and consider their total cost, then this investment is negligible or small, even for the expensive solution. Have you ever thought about to measure a movement characteristics before and after a service?

Do not get discouraged by pertinent negative comments.

[77T]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Hell, I'd bet there are many people who don't even realize their watch has a 32xx movement and therefore scan right past the thread. That detail in itself likely rules out the fools walking around without even having the time set and all that nonsense. Still, regardless of how many "totally fine" non-participants we've missed, having 50 users reporting problems seems to rule out the "one in million" type of framing on this issue.

I agree that few know much about their watch - maybe only .01% likely know the caliber inside their watch. Nor care about 10 seconds here or there. If they had a repair under warranty they also may not know what was done. I don’t consider these people fools.

But...ya know, “five 9’s” would yield 10 duds per year - and 5 years ≈ 50 duds.



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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by 77T

I agree that few know much about their watch - maybe only .01% likely know the caliber inside their watch. Nor care about 10 seconds here or there. If they had a repair under warranty they also may not know what was done. I don’t consider these people fools.

But...ya know, “five 9’s” would yield 10 duds per year - and 5 years ≈ 50 duds.



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My "fools" comment was directly targeted at people who don't set the time on their watches because it's purely jewelry to them. And I stand by that one.

As far as the 5 9s angle, that analysis only requires us to assume that every purchaser on the planet who has had an issue has answered the poll so far. Seems reasonable!

[phranxinatra]

2017 SD43 started to lose time after a year. Until that it kept perfect time. I took it back to the boutique but they only regulated not serviced. Took it back again 2 weeks later, regulating again. Sold it and bought a new MK2 last August, it's pretty accurate but only 6 month old.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by phranxinatra

2017 SD43 started to lose time after a year. Until that it kept perfect time. I took it back to the boutique but they only regulated not serviced. Took it back again 2 weeks later, regulating again. Sold it and bought a new MK2 last August, it's pretty accurate but only 6 month old.

Sorry to hear of your troubles but fingers crossed your new one stays solid. Please vote in the poll if you haven't already. Thank you :)

[jb335]

I have no idea about amplitude.

My 126610LV has been worn nearly daily for over a month now and keeps a very consistent -1.5/second a day. Totally within COSC.

I voted "yes, no issues."

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by jb335

I have no idea about amplitude.

My 126610LV has been worn nearly daily for over a month now and keeps a very consistent -1.5/second a day. Totally within COSC.

I voted "yes, no issues."

Thanks, i.e. a 3235 from Dec. 2020 w/o problem.
The poll does not discriminate between purchase dates 2015, 2016, 2017 .... 2021.
Not to forget if somebody starts trying to draw a conclusion.

[MikeyV]

All these folks saying "I'm in two months and all good" are in for a surprise at about 6-8 months.

It's not if, but when.

But really, it depends on how much it's run. Mine ran nonstop and it took about 7 months for it to manifest.
So if you only wore the watch 1 week a month, it would take 4 times as long for the problem to manifest. Up to 3 years maybe?

Perhaps until the warranty is expired if the watch is not run much?

Same when I got it returned from service. Run constantly and 6 months to the slowdown.


So YMMV.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

All these folks saying "I'm in two months and all good" are in for a surprise at about 8-9 months.

It's not if, but when.

yeah if you would have polled me in March, April .... October 2019 I'd have said "no issues".

When it comes to mechanical things "everything is fine until the moment it's not"

[jb335]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks, i.e. a 3235 from Dec. 2020 w/o problem.
The poll does not discriminate between purchase dates 2015, 2016, 2017 .... 2021. Not to forget if somebody starts trying to draw a conclusion.

Yes. A 3235 bought directly from an AD on 21/12/2020

[Strad]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

We've got several other threads talking about this movement, but my goal here is to have a single source of real data, both the poll question - has your movement had an issue, yes/no - and actual timegrapher data to give us a feel for "normal" amplitudes. I didn't want to go overboard with poll options so I left it more yes/no. If you had an issue, but have sent it in to RSC and it seems to be better now, please mark this as having an issue as it still represents a problem data point in the field.

It seems to me that at some point you need to count the number of issue cases that were fixed by the RSC or other watchmakers. This would indicate whether or not ROLEX has a fix.

Is this part of the plan?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Strad

It seems to me that at some point you need to count the number of issue cases that were fixed by the RSC or other watchmakers. This would indicate whether or not ROLEX has a fix.

Is this part of the plan?

Very good point, the poll does not cover that.

Until now we have 157 votes in the poll and 224 posts.
That means a significant amount of people have voted without posting, which makes an interpretation very very difficult

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

All these folks saying "I'm in two months and all good" are in for a surprise at about 8-9 months.

It's not if, but when.

Actually that is one of the most intetesting points for me!

If Rolex would have solved the problem(s) until the release of the new 2020 models, or earlier, then this would not happen.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Whats a good timegrapher to buy ?

Hi Neef,

I use this one and I will submit the results soon.

As far as accuracy goes it’s not rocket science.

A microphone counts the ‘ticks’ and I expect there is a correction for lift angle.

In any event I am looking at changes in watch performance over 24, 48 and 72 hours on the same Timegrapher.

Some pix during this test.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Actually that is one of the most intetesting points for me!

If Rolex would have solved the problem(s) until the release of the new 2020 models, or earlier, then this would not happen.

Mine went to RSC Dallas from in May/June 2019.
So there was no fix them. Ran perfect again for 6 months then fell to running slow again.

I'm currently in the -5.5 spd range. Better than it was. It is slowly getting better somehow.

But if you let it stop it goes back another 2-3 spd.

I won't send mine back again until the last minute of the warranty. which would be June 2023.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hi Neef,



I use this one and I will submit the results soon.



As far as accuracy goes it’s not rocket science.



A microphone counts the ‘ticks’ and I expect there is a correction for lift angle.



In any event I am looking at changes in watch performance over 24, 48 and 72 hours on the same Timegrapher.



Some pix during this test.

What power reserve were you at when you only saw 155 degrees? You are using 53 degree lift angle right? Interesting that it was still keeping decent time at that point, whereas mine was -180s/d at like 175 degrees.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[Andad]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

All these folks saying "I'm in two months and all good" are in for a surprise at about 6-8 months.

It's not if, but when.

But really, it depends on how much it's run. Mine ran nonstop and it took about 7 months for it to manifest.
So if you only wore the watch 1 week a month, it would take 4 times as long for the problem to manifest. Up to 3 years maybe?

Perhaps until the warranty is expired if the watch is not run much?

Same when I got it returned from service. Run constantly and 6 months to the slowdown.


So YMMV.

I agree Mickey.

I will finish the testing on my DJ41 this afternoon but would suggest that my results are excluded because:

I purchased this watch in November 2019 and it has only been worn a few times usually when my wife wears her matching DJ26 and worn even less during these times of limited outings.

The results so far look ok as expected but based on my wear factor I would not expect problems until well after the warranty has expired.

What happens then?

Why would Rolex manufacture a watch with an extended power reserve when the amplitude etc. drops off so much after 24 and 48 hours and why did Rolex increase the power reserve on an automatic watch?

If I take my DJ41 off on a Friday afternoon I should be able to put it back on my wrist on Monday morning with it having maintained it’s accuracy/precision in any resting position?

Is Rolex going to suggest that I only rest this watch ‘dial up’ when not wearing it so as to maintain it’s accuracy/precision?

Evaluating the overall results so far tells me that Rolex has an issue with these movements.

You can be sure that I will be returning this watch to Rolex before the warranty expires as I can see problems with repairs down the track.

I wear my 14060M weekdays.
It gains 1 s/d on my wrist and -1 second resting at 6 U overnight for positional correction (usually from around 4:30 pm to 7:45 am).
6U is the only position where it reads minus on my Timegrapher and this confirms to me that the Timegrapher I have reflects the watch performance.

It has been like this for >24 months since it’s last service at Melbourne RSC.

I will check this one next and compare the results to my DJ41.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

What power reserve were you at when you only saw 155 degrees? You are using 53 degree lift angle right? Interesting that it was still keeping decent time at that point, whereas mine was -180s/d at like 175 degrees.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

I have extended my test to the end of power reserve.

That pix was taken after 64.5 hours.
53 lift angle for all tests.
Watch was 2 seconds fast at this point.

Current pix. 67 hours.

Pix shows -11 but it is swinging between -8 to -11.
Still 2 second fast from full wind confirmed on WatchTracker and my Seiko Astron.

I will check all positions at 70 hours assuming I get there.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Andad

Why would Rolex manufacture a watch with an extended power reserve when the amplitude etc. drops off so much after 24 and 48 hours and why did Rolex increase the power reserve on an automatic watch?

Evaluating the overall results so far tells me that Rolex has an issue with these movements.

Oom,because they fixed what wasnt broken .

I have said this before ,this one can bite Rolex .

Wait for the new 126610LN and LV results in a few months time ....

[NIHO]

Not pretending to be an expert here, but back mid 2020 I posted some data on my SD43 that was -3s/d, 1.5 years into ownership. it had previously been about +2-3s per week. After the usual "what's a few seconds a day comments" I posted the timegrapher pics, and even when corrected to lift angle 53 per BAS's suggestion that dial up amplitude was about 250 and the hanging was about 220. I sent the watch in for service at RSC, who agreed that it needed a service. I got it back in OCT and since then it is +1s/d on the wrist and the amplitude is higher (280 flat, 260 hanging). I hope this will be a long term fix but I have my doubts.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hi Neef,

I use this one and I will submit the results soon.

As far as accuracy goes it’s not rocket science.

A microphone counts the ‘ticks’ and I expect there is a correction for lift angle.

In any event I am looking at changes in watch performance over 24, 48 and 72 hours on the same Timegrapher.

Hi,
Thanks for your data, I was waiting that you join here with valuable input.

Timegrapher are no nerd instruments and no rocket science, as you confirmed, but provide comparable data for any watch collection, it’s a measurement of changes over time.

Confidence is obtained by comparing the 3200 series with earlier Rolex calibers, such as 3130, 3185, 3187, and the 1500 series, always using the same timegrapher and setup.

It would be nice if you can present your upcoming data in Tables, which are easier to digest than text, at least for me.
Cheers

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Oom,because they fixed what wasnt broken .

I have said this before ,this one can bite Rolex .

Wait for the new 126610LN and LV results in a few months time ....

I'm afraid this is true. You can't argue with facts and data. Almost 40% of the new 32xx series have issues here according to this poll. I knew something was wrong with this movement but this percentage is surprising to me.

[PekWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by EEpro

yeah if you would have polled me in March, April .... October 2019 I'd have said "no issues".

When it comes to mechanical things "everything is fine until the moment it's not"

exactly

[Davidt]

I’m not for one second saying there isn’t an issue with the 32xx movement family, there clearly is.

However, one must consider the selection bias of this survey. Some one is far more likely to click on this thread if they’ve had issues with their watch, and scroll past if they haven’t.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Davidt

I’m not for one second saying there isn’t an issue with the 32xx movement family, there clearly is.

However, one must consider the selection bias of this survey. Some one is far more likely to click on this thread if they’ve had issues with their watch, and scroll past if they haven’t.

There is also first year owners,unlikely to experience any problems clicking no issues .

I believe the percentage to be fairly accurate .

[Andad]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Hi,
Thanks for your data, I was waiting that you join here with valuable input.

Timegrapher are no nerd instruments and no rocket science, as you confirmed, but provide comparable data for any watch collection, it’s a measurement of changes over time.

Confidence is obtained by comparing the 3200 series with earlier Rolex calibers, such as 3130, 3185, 3187, and the 1500 series, always using the same timegrapher and setup.

It would be nice if you can present your upcoming data in Tables, which are easier to digest than text, at least for me.
Cheers

I have finished the test to 72 hours and the PR ran to 73.5 hours.

The last 10 hours were a waste of time given the range of positional gains and losses per hour at the lower power factor.

It was Australia Day holiday today (Tuesday) in Oz and I also had Monday off.

I have some catch up testing on site to do tomorrow but will be back in my office Thursday and table the results on excel.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Andad

I have finished the test to 72 hours and the PR ran to 73.5 hours.

The last 10 hours were a waste of time given the range of positional gains and losses per hour at the lower power factor.

It was Australia Day holiday today (Tuesday) in Oz and I also had Monday off.

I have some catch up testing on site to do tomorrow but will be back in my office Thursday and table the results on excel.

So,the last 10 hour period of the PR is of no practical use for the user ?

[Kirk19]

I own a 2019 BLNR and a 2020 CHNR. Reading these comments it seems the 3235 has more issues then the 3285. I am not wearing my watches very often anymore due to my job and COVID... I wound my watches today and will keep track of time gained or lost. Interesting that there is a claim of a ‘problem’. Would Rolex rectify these problems with the 32xx movements when you go in for a service? Even outside the warranty period? If it is design problem I think they should...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Andad

I have finished the test to 72 hours and the PR ran to 73.5 hours.The last 10 hours were a waste of time given the range of positional gains and losses per hour at the lower power factor.

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

So,the last 10 hour period of the PR is of no practical use for the user ?

I have an answer to both of you:
The last approx. 10 hours, before reaching the 70 hours Power Reserve (PR), strongly depend on watch condition and in which position it remains at rest all time. I have measured that in 2019 for a 3235 coming back from a repair at Rolex. Below are the results.



Plots show Rate and Amplitude vs. Time after full winding at t = 0 in DU (dial up) and 9U (9 up) position.
Result for position DU was close to DD; 9U was close to 6U, 12U, 3 U.

I hope that gives a better view about the Power Reserve understanding. This drop in Amplitude with Time is a general feature of all movements.

Please note, these data were taken with a well running 3235 coming back from Rolex repair.
For 3235 and 3285 with "issues" the situation is completely different, worse.