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Old 20 February 2019, 03:30 AM   #31
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+1. How can one not have better things to do with their time.
Oh the irony.
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Old 20 February 2019, 03:32 AM   #32
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Oh the irony.


Reporting a seller? What irony?


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Old 20 February 2019, 04:27 AM   #33
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And the hardest-to-source 5740 is now 220-240k thereabouts.
That is really nuts.
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Old 20 February 2019, 04:34 AM   #34
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I fall in the camp that it is none of our business what someone does with personal property after it is theirs. Who's fault is it PP delivers so few of these pieces that they are resalable at a 100K profit same day. At some point this is so insane that PP supply policies are destroying brand loyalty.
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Old 20 February 2019, 06:56 AM   #35
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And the hardest-to-source 5740 is now 220-240k thereabouts.
PP's and only PP's fault.
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Old 20 February 2019, 07:56 AM   #36
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I fall in the camp that it is none of our business what someone does with personal property after it is theirs. Who's fault is it PP delivers so few of these pieces that they are resalable at a 100K profit same day. At some point this is so insane that PP supply policies are destroying brand loyalty.
And perhaps not, there are lots of rich people in this world where this money is pocket change
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Old 20 February 2019, 09:01 AM   #37
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This thread is a mirror image of threads in the Rolex forum. In both cases there is a massive demand for SS sports models as they are in short supply. This demand is driven by either a Company decision to starve the market or manufacturing constraints. In both cases the brands have a surfeit of either other SS / TT “Classic” models or PM “Dress “ watches in ADs now. To put it in context how many SKUs does each company have that are slow movers and how many are really hot? It’s probably around 90%-10% slow to hot sellers. Both forums focus on 5711/5712 PPs and Rolex Daytona’s/Subs /GMTs etc. Rolex and Patek are more concerned about the rump of product in the ADS and their warehouses that are not selling.
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Old 20 February 2019, 09:40 AM   #38
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I don't know how I feel about this, flipping isn't exactly a crime so not sure if I would go as far as reporting it to Patek and cause problems for the seller and the AD. Maybe the seller helped moved a lot of slow selling pieces and got the 5740 as a reward.

Then again someone flipping is how I got my 5131P, so I guess I am biased.
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Who are we to question why a person decided to sell a watch. He bought it, he can do whatever he want with it, there could be many reasons why he sold it right away. Maybe he drove by a Porsche dealer and saw a brand new Turbo S and decided to sell the watch and get the car instead. Or maybe making a quick 100k is just too tempting to pass up.

I understand some people are frustrated with certain watches so difficult to get and seeing it for sale right away upsets them, but those who got them, they must have done good deeds with the AD to get them, it's not like they stole it. So reporting to Patek trying to cause ramifications for the seller and AD is going a bit too far in my opinion.
You are oblivious to other VIPs also spending a lot of money on the slow-moving pieces/or "done good deeds" at the AD. The selection process at the AD is so opaque, we don't even know if that 5740 landed in a sort of meritocratic way to the right person to begin with.

By way of conversation (you may confirm with your own AD and the regional Patek agent), it is my understanding that both Patek and the AD have policies not to sell to flippers, especially of the day-1 variant. I am very happy with these policies and I will gladly do my part to help them out. You are right in saying flipping is not a crime - I never said it is a crime.

By the way, making a phone call and reporting to Patek is not a crime too.

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Why do you care what the buyer did with the watch?
If he wants to keep it, sell it or crush it, what business is it of yours?
Sounds like you are jealous you did not get the watch to flip.
Personally, I think you have a lot of nerve calling Patek. Who made you the Patek police?
Why do you care I make a call to Patek to inform them of a day-1 flipper? What business is it of yours?

I got a massive high from calling Patek, and will do so every time I see a flip.

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Originally Posted by V25V View Post
+1. How can one not have better things to do with their time.
I have so much time on my hand that I will report every single flip to Patek when I see one. Why does it matter to you I have so much time?
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Old 20 February 2019, 09:58 AM   #39
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Ha. Maybe.

But at the same time he was lobbying me to get the new one from my AD and sell it to him. He just can’t get them.

That said, I’d never do that to my AD. I respect them too much. If anything, I’d take the new one as I like to have my name on the papers and sell the gray back. But it’s unlikely I’ll go through the trouble.

And fwiw, I doubt highly these Israelis care too much about how I feel about my purchase. But maybe.

I’m not in this game for money. If I were, I’d be suicudal. It’s a hobby. I’ve loved watches since I was a kid. The thrill is fading. But the love has remained.


Edit: I just reread your post. Trust me, while id have preferred to pay retail, Ive zero reason to make myself feel better.

I don’t spend money I don’t have. And once it’s gone, it’s gone. I love my watch. About to use it’s function while on a quick trip to Chicago. I would not have bought it if I needed to make myself feel better about it. That’s just not how I roll. I’ve got plenty of issues, that’s not one of them.
I have no skin in this game because I’m not a big player in the watch game. I do enjoy following these threads though.

Why the reference to “these Israelis”?
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:15 AM   #40
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Reporting a seller? What irony?


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Sorry for my delay. I was enroute to Chicago.

Not looking to start any trouble. Ironic to me personally I guess. It just appears that you have a theme to many of your posts. Your disparaging and often times passively aggressive or down putting.

For example: how can one not have better things to do with their time?

It is one thing to agree with what you quoted. It is another to add what you did. And it appears consistent. So the irony is that I’ve thought in the past “how can one not have better things to do with their time than be disparaging on an Internet forum”.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:23 AM   #41
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I have no skin in this game because I’m not a big player in the watch game. I do enjoy following these threads though.

Why the reference to “these Israelis”?
No offense intended. Not sure it helps, but I’m Jewish.

And I work with A LOT of Israelis.

It’s just that Israelis are pure business. And very shrewd. They take pleasure in the sales process. And they are very very good at it. Very good at removing emotion from business.

From my own personal experience it’s not an emotional process in their culture. It’s business. And the guys I bought from, were very similar to many of my business friends and associates.

I’m envious really. I’m very much an emotional sales person. I’m an emotional
Buyer too.

I hope that clears it up. Again. No offense intended.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:26 AM   #42
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Sorry for my delay. I was enroute to Chicago.



Not looking to start any trouble. Ironic to me personally I guess. It just appears that you have a theme to many of your posts. Your disparaging and often times passively aggressive or down putting.



For example: how can one not have better things to do with their time?



It is one thing to agree with what you quoted. It is another to add what you did. And it appears consistent. So the irony is that I’ve thought in the past “how can one not have better things to do with their time than be disparaging on an Internet forum”.


Whatever, dude. Not looking to start trouble yet that's precisely what you are doing.

My comments, as down putting (as I am anything but passive aggressive, likely projection there) as I may be at times, I'll speak my mind. That's what I do. However, not sure how that would be a situation where I have too much time on my hands or even a valid comparison. Again, seems you are in fact trying to start trouble and if anything, passive aggressive yourself (my projection reference is accurate). "I'm not trying to start any trouble but..." On the other hand, going out of my way to report a seller to an AD because he/she is selling something that "breaks the rules"? Gimme a break.....

Carry on.


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Old 20 February 2019, 10:30 AM   #43
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No offense intended. Not sure it helps, but I’m Jewish.

And I work with A LOT of Israelis.

It’s just that Israelis are pure business. And very shrewd. They take pleasure in the sales process. And they are very very good at it. Very good at removing emotion from business.

From my own personal experience it’s not an emotional process in their culture. It’s business. And the guys I bought from, were very similar to many of my business friends and associates.

I’m envious really. I’m very much an emotional sales person. I’m an emotional
Buyer too.

I hope that clears it up. Again. No offense intended.
I understand. No offense taken Seth.

Now let’s get back to the subject at hand or IBTH
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:36 AM   #44
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Whatever, dude. Not looking to start trouble yet that's precisely what you are doing.

My comments, as down putting (as I am anything but passive aggressive, likely projection there) as I may be at times, I'll speak my mind. That's what I do. However, not sure how that would be a situation where I have too much time on my hands or even a valid comparison. Again, seems you are in fact trying to start trouble and if anything, passive aggressive yourself (my projection reference is accurate). "I'm not trying to start any trouble but..." On the other hand, going out of my way to report a seller to an AD because he/she is selling something that "breaks the rules"? Gimme a break.....

Carry on.


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Whoah.

It took you not even 10 minutes to respond. Settle down.

And you mixed up who you are taking to. I didn’t report anyone. I simply created a thread about what my gray told me. Although I don’t disparage the poster that did.

I’d say take a few deep breaths. Calm down. And yeah, sure, keep doing you. Call it as negatively as you see it. I will continue to wonder what type of person sees everything in such a light.

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Old 20 February 2019, 10:37 AM   #45
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I understand. No offense taken Seth.

Now let’s get back to the subject at hand or IBTH
Ha. Seriously.

This thread went south pretty fast.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:39 AM   #46
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Whoah.



It took you not even 10 minutes to respond. Settle down.



And you mixed up who you are taking to. I didn’t report anyone. I simply created a thread about what my gray told me. Although I don’t disparage the poster that did.



I’d say take a few deep breaths. Calm down. And yeah, sure, keep doing you. Call it as negatively as you see it. I will continue to wonder what type of person sees everything in such a light.





Jesus you are predictable.

I never said you reported anyone, but you commented on my post to the one who did. You brought yourself into this in an attempt to "not start trouble". You are by definition passive aggressive, now that's ironic.


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Old 20 February 2019, 10:43 AM   #47
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Jesus you are predictable.

I never said you reported anyone, but you commented on my post to the one who did. You brought yourself into this in an attempt to "not start trouble". You are by definition passive aggressive, now that's ironic.


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Well, if I’m predictable, you should have better retorts.

So far, I’m not impressed at all.

You came into a thread disparaging. I responded. Now your whining. Talk about predictable. I could have telegraphed this.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:45 AM   #48
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^^^

FWIW, I did think if I actually wanted to respond at all. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to get into it. It’s been forever for me. I prefer the friendly way.

I was well aware it would turn into this. I’m okay with it.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:46 AM   #49
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Well, if I’m predictable, you should have better retorts.



So far, I’m not impressed at all.



You came into a thread disparaging. I responded. Now your whining. Talk about predictable. I could have telegraphed this.


Whining?

I'll let you have the last word, we both know that's how it's going to end anyhow. Good luck.


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Old 20 February 2019, 10:55 AM   #50
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Whining?

I'll let you have the last word, we both know that's how it's going to end anyhow. Good luck.


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Lmao. You know your out of steam when you post something like that.

It’s just karma dude. Your negativity brings it right back to you. I let that go when I was about 6. But I just see you do it so much, I figured I’d have a little fun.

You are way out of your league dude.

Oh the “I’ll let you have the last word”. Cmon. Really??

I’ll be so impressed if you actually do end it here. I don’t think you can do it. But I’ll be happy to be proven wrong in this case, and will surely respect you if you actually do.
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Old 20 February 2019, 11:09 AM   #51
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5164 value went up in a week?

Seth, think you or your gray dealer are trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. Its ok, your 5164 value will hold.
No one knows what the future brings, Seth certainly didn't claim to. His dealer said the market value went up, and frankly I've been watching that watch like a hawk for the past year and lately it's been sky rocketing.

Either way, the market has shown the value to continue to rise as of TODAY! Saying that Seth is somehow trying to make himself feel better and sarcastically implying that he's fooling himself into believing the current or future value of the watch is make believe, is condescending and rude.

You may have framed this as light hearted and jokey, but the roots of negativity are clear and strong.
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Old 20 February 2019, 11:28 AM   #52
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No one knows what the future brings, Seth certainly didn't claim to. His dealer said the market value went up, and frankly I've been watching that watch like a hawk for the past year and lately it's been sky rocketing.



Either way, the market has shown the value to continue to rise as of TODAY! Saying that Seth is somehow trying to make himself feel better and sarcastically implying that he's fooling himself into believing the current or future value of the watch is make believe, is condescending and rude.



You may have framed this as light hearted and jokey, but the roots of negativity are clear and strong.


I have a 5164a, I personally hope he is right. But everything I have seen is in line with where they have been, with the exception of the one David posted a week or so back.

And yes, it was a joke and not sure why I would be negative about a watch that I myself have and love.




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Old 20 February 2019, 11:52 AM   #53
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This thread is turning SAVAGE. Im probbaly using that wors wrong
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Old 20 February 2019, 11:52 AM   #54
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I think it's vastly different. Dependable grey sellers offers far more than just "flipping" a watch. Safe haven for buying/selling/trading... Discounts/market pricing on watches in general (yes people like to whine when it comes to hot watch premiums, but completely forget the discounts they get in almost all other normal watches compared to MSRP).... Not to mention it's their job/livelihood. Different from some guy abusing his relationship to make quick money day one... Regardless of reason. I do agree it's his to do with after purchased... But I don't like the thought of me being the next in line passed for this.
Yeah I guess I don’t see the difference when a gray has a brand new “stickered” for sale yet we hail them as hero’s and awesome. The same thing about an AD. He has a business to run as well and bills to pay. Flipping is flipping. These people that get them and turn around and sell them are getting those watches ahead of plenty that would buy them , wear them and keep them.

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You are oblivious to other VIPs also spending a lot of money on the slow-moving pieces/or "done good deeds" at the AD. The selection process at the AD is so opaque, we don't even know if that 5740 landed in a sort of meritocratic way to the right person to begin with.

By way of conversation (you may confirm with your own AD and the regional Patek agent), it is my understanding that both Patek and the AD have policies not to sell to flippers, especially of the day-1 variant. I am very happy with these policies and I will gladly do my part to help them out. You are right in saying flipping is not a crime - I never said it is a crime.

By the way, making a phone call and reporting to Patek is not a crime too.



Why do you care I make a call to Patek to inform them of a day-1 flipper? What business is it of yours?

I got a massive high from calling Patek, and will do so every time I see a flip.



I have so much time on my hand that I will report every single flip to Patek when I see one. Why does it matter to you I have so much time?
Since you have so much time can you please start calling Rolex as well.
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Old 20 February 2019, 11:53 AM   #55
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Old 20 February 2019, 12:03 PM   #56
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I have a 5164a, I personally hope he is right. But everything I have seen is in line with where they have been, with the exception of the one David posted a week or so back.

And yes, it was a joke and not sure why I would be negative about a watch that I myself have and love.




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I only see two forum listings in the last couple weeks. One is from a private seller (meaning not a known trusted seller), warranty status unknown, price is consistent with the past couple months, the other is from a known seller, warranty status unknown, and looks heavily worn IMO (despite being described as new) price is also consistent with the last couple months.

And your one exception happens to be the one guy that seems to have the most influence on the forum market.

Outside of the forums, there are plenty for sale. But from known reputable dealers, Ive been having a hard time finding even a preowned mint condition for under $46k.

As far as your post, I don’t know why you’d joke about it either. All I can say is that the post seemed negative, and frankly rude and condescending. If I had to guess why you said it, probably because you paid retail for your 5164 and it makes you feel better about yourself to criticize others (in joking form or not) for paying a premium.
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Old 20 February 2019, 12:03 PM   #57
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This thread is turning SAVAGE. Im probbaly using that wors wrong
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Savage
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Old 20 February 2019, 12:10 PM   #58
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I only see two forum listings in the last couple weeks. One is from a private seller (meaning not a known trusted seller), warranty status unknown, price is consistent with the past couple months, the other is from a known seller, warranty status unknown, and looks heavily worn IMO (despite being described as new) price is also consistent with the last couple months.

And your one exception happens to be the one guy that seems to have the most influence on the forum market.

Outside of the forums, there are plenty for sale. But from known reputable dealers, Ive been having a hard time finding even a preowned mint condition for under $46k.

As far as your post, I don’t know why you’d joke about it either. All I can say is that the post seemed negative, and frankly rude and condescending. If I had to guess why you said it, probably because you paid retail for your 5164 and it makes you feel better about yourself to criticize others (in joking form or not) for paying a premium.


So we are basing the higher price of the 5164a on one seller who listed at that price and we have no clue what it actually sold for? Got it.

Look, it was a joke. And I could give a rats ass if he paid over retail for it. He got what he wanted and his time was worth more than the wait, I could care less. You are sticking up for your boy and that's cool and all, but unnecessary. It was a joke and if that's what got him (and now you) all bent out of shape, I don't know what to say. Your money, do with it what you like. I'll remember not to make jokes at the expense of a couple of soft NY boys again.


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Old 20 February 2019, 12:13 PM   #59
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So SAVAGE !!!
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Old 20 February 2019, 12:28 PM   #60
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So we are basing the higher price of the 5164a on one seller who listed at that price and we have no clue what it actually sold for? Got it.

Look, it was a joke. And I could give a rats ass if he paid over retail for it. He got what he wanted and his time was worth more than the wait, I could care less. You are sticking up for your boy and that's cool and all, but unnecessary. It was a joke and if that's what got him (and now you) all bent out of shape, I don't know what to say. Your money, do with it what you like. I'll remember not to make jokes at the expense of a couple of soft NY boys again.


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See that’s the the type of arragance Seth picked up on from the beginning and you continue to be blind to.

From the safety of your keyboard you’re calling me soft?! You’re being a prick, you got called out for it, and now you’re retreating while being even more of a prick.

As for the watch, did you not read my post? I’m not basing it on DSW. That was the only listing YOU mentioned haha, I just said you happen to pick the one guy that everyone on the forum seems to base the market off of.. There are only three for sale on the forums right now. I’m going off dozens of chrono24 listings, in just the US. And you talk about actual sale price, I’ve been calling around, these dealers are not letting them go for less than $46k.
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