Rolex resurfaced after been stolen.

[pmac80]

Hello everyone, my stolen Rolex resurfaced recently but Rolex won't give it back. They state I have to come to an agreement with a second party that is also claiming ownership. At this point I am the only one that holds a title, a police report and a proof of purchase; while the other party only claims they did not know it was stolen at the time they purchased.

As of now, there is no collaboration from the other party and legal action seems like the last resort. Can anyone offer advice or other avenues to recover my watch?

Thank you,

P

[sleddog]

I'm only going by your post, but if you hold the proof of purchase, followed by the police report issuing the loss of said item, I would have to expect an open and proven course of events would make you the legitimate owner.
As a caveat, I'm no lawyer.

[MiDoon]

Insurance should be able to cover this situation.

[Caesium Al]

The date of your police report, which will certainly have your serial number will be especially helpful. What may help even more is if you reported the watch as stolen before it was re-sold to the un suspecting new “owner”. Is this new “owner” in the same police jurisdiction? Either way, someone from the police service where you reported the theft should be able to contact whoever currently has the watch (themselves or by co-ordinating with local police) so it can be returned to you. As a cop for 32 years, I would want my people to know who is selling stolen Rolex watches in our area.

[joli160]

I doubt Rolex is within the law to keep your watch.
Legal action required.

[Andad]

As Rob has said.

I don’t see an issue if you are the owner.

The other party would be required to show proof of their ownership and I don’t see how they could be successful.

Was the watch insured and if it was did the company cover it.

If not your police report and proof of purchase will return the watch to you.

Due process I expect?

[Moondoggy]

Depending on your jurisdiction, in many instances if a stolen item has been purchased in good faith ie. the purchaser was not aware of such then he/she is the rightful owner. As also mentioned Rolex do not have the right to play Judge Judy

[rolex818]

Back in law school we studied the bona fide purchaser doctrine in property class. In a nutshell, it protects somebody who purchased an item ignorant of another's claim to the same property.

Scholars/philosophers may disagree as to whom the law should protect in that instance. But in the eyes of the law a bona fide purchaser, if truly ignorant of another's claim to title, shouldn't be penalized because they did nothing wrong.

Recourse is legal action, and your lawyer will explain what specifically needs to be done under the laws of your jurisdiction. But then you have to consider how much s/he will charge (contingency typically 30-40%/hourly/flat fee) and whether it's "worth it."

Also keep in mind that over 90% of disputes settle. Meaning, you likely won't get the watch back unless the "second party" gets some sort of compensation. Of course, that assumes the second party will fight it.

Good luck

[Jack T]

You say the watch has resurfaced - what does that mean? And that Rolex won’t give it back - how did they gain possession of the watch? Where did this all occur? Was it sent to Rolex for servicing and then Rolex tracked serial numbers and found it to have been reported stolen?

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Depending on your jurisdiction, in many instances if a stolen item has been purchased in good faith ie. the purchaser was not aware of such then he/she is the rightful owner. As also mentioned Rolex do not have the right to play Judge Judy

No blame will be laid on an ‘interim owner’ if they bought it in good faith but they have no ownership.

Rolex will hand this watch to the authorities and it will be returned to the owner.

The ‘interim owner‘ can then use their own process to recover funds paid if they can.

You can not legally own stolen property.

The legal owner owes no compensation for the recovery of their stolen goods.

If they have been paid out via insurance they can negotiate with the insurance company.

[rootbeer7]

Was it insured and did get paid out for its theft? If so, I think you’ll struggle, in which case if it has sentimental value offer to purchase it back. I wouldn’t want to own a watch that has been stolen.

[blada4life]

Originally Posted by Caesium Al

The date of your police report, which will certainly have your serial number will be especially helpful. What may help even more is if you reported the watch as stolen before it was re-sold to the un suspecting new “owner”. Is this new “owner” in the same police jurisdiction? Either way, someone from the police service where you reported the theft should be able to contact whoever currently has the watch (themselves or by co-ordinating with local police) so it can be returned to you. As a cop for 32 years, I would want my people to know who is selling stolen Rolex watches in our area.

This.

If in the same jurisdiction the police should confiscate the stolen property, do their investigation and return it. Rolex won’t resolve any disputes otherwise. I’m assuming they want a declaratory judgment against the other party that you are the owner. It’ll cost ya snd im sure that’s why they object. Cheaper to pay them off. Not sure if you can take them to small claims court for this but look into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andad]

Originally Posted by blada4life

This.

If in the same jurisdiction the police should confiscate the stolen property, do their investigation and return it. Rolex won’t resolve any disputes otherwise. I’m assuming they want a declaratory judgment against the other party that you are the owner. It’ll cost ya snd im sure that’s why they object. Cheaper to pay them off. Not sure if you can take them to small claims court for this but look into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If there is an issue with returning the watch to the owner there is a much bigger issue returning it to a buyer of stolen property.

[JacksonRain]

Are you in USA.... Stolen goods cannot pass ownership, ignorance in good faith blah blah doesn't matter. seller selling goods stOLEN DID NOT haVE legal ownership rights so there you go. That guy had to go after the seller.... Welcome to the USA... IM not your lawyer by the way

[77T]

Originally Posted by Jack T

You say the watch has resurfaced - what does that mean? And that Rolex won’t give it back - how did they gain possession of the watch? Where did this all occur? Was it sent to Rolex for servicing and then Rolex tracked serial numbers and found it to have been reported stolen?

In the OP’s post the watch is now in Rolex’s possession - how it got there seems that the current owner provided it to them for service (either directly or via an AD). But that won’t be relevant to the outcome.

Rolex legal dept. uses a form letter to advise the party who placed the serial number onto their theft registry. Rolex takes the position that they can’t adjudicate anything - especially because the matter may also be crossing jurisdictional lines.

Unless the original owner who reported the watch as stolen wants to pursue the matter, Rolex will perform their work and return the watch to the person that asked for the service.

Therefore, the matter should be settled by the parties involved. OP should hire an attorney. The current owner will need to prove s/he acquired the watch without being a party to the theft (i.e., having clean hands) - perhaps a bill of sale from a trusted seller?

Why won’t Rolex just mail it back to the OP?

They don’t know if the police report was bogus, or the OP is really a bona fide owner, or anything else. They aren’t a finder of fact. They are like any other citizen who finds something that appears to be stolen (in this case by dint of a faxed theft report from OP in the past).

Rolex doesn’t know if the watch’s loss was covered by an insurance reimbursement. In such a case it would actually belong to the insurer.

There is so much to be considered that Rolex avoids undertaking the responsibility.

If the OP undertakes the matter in court, he will need a judge to issue a court order to produce the watch in that jurisdiction. The court must have power over the defendant that you are suing - the order is unlikely to be served since I’ll bet all 3 parties aren’t in NY.

The cost of each path is also something to consider.

I’ve succeeded in recovering a stolen Rolex - but everyone involved was in same jurisdiction and I had the criminal case still under investigation. All I had to do was meet the assigned detective at the property room.

If the other 3 watches that were stolen from my home ever show up, I will be in same boat as OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by 77T

In the OP’s post the watch is now in Rolex’s possession - how it got there seems that the current owner provided it to them for service (either directly or via an AD). But that won’t be relevant to the outcome.

Rolex legal dept. uses a form letter to advise the party who placed the serial number onto their theft registry. Rolex takes the position that they can’t adjudicate anything - especially because the matter may also be crossing jurisdictional lines.

Unless the original owner who reported the watch as stolen wants to pursue the matter, Rolex will perform their work and return the watch to the person that asked for the service.

Therefore, the matter should be settled by the parties involved. OP should hire an attorney. The current owner will need to prove s/he acquired the watch without being a party to the theft (i.e., having clean hands) - perhaps a bill of sale from a trusted seller?

Why won’t Rolex just mail it back to the OP?

They don’t know if the police report was bogus, or the OP is really a bona fide owner, or anything else. They aren’t a finder of fact. They are like any other citizen who finds something that appears to be stolen (in this case by dint of a faxed theft report from OP in the past).

Rolex doesn’t know if the watch’s loss was covered by an insurance reimbursement. In such a case it would actually belong to the insurer.

There is so much to be considered that Rolex avoids undertaking the responsibility.

If the OP undertakes the matter in court, he will need a judge to issue a court order to produce the watch in that jurisdiction. The court must have power over the defendant that you are suing - the order is unlikely to be served since I’ll bet all 3 parties aren’t in NY.

The cost of each path is also something to consider.

I’ve succeeded in recovering a stolen Rolex - but everyone involved was in same jurisdiction and I had the criminal case still under investigation. All I had to do was meet the assigned detective at the property room.

If the other 3 watches that were stolen from my home ever show up, I will be in same boat as OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Great summary!!! Thanks!! Wishing the OP luck in his watch recovery!!

[RJG]

I can't be the only person on this forum who's wondering about the specific model of Rolex in question here.

[Brny11]

Subscribed to follow the outcome.

Sorry you’re watch was stolen and even worse after it resurfaced, that you have to jump through hoops to get YOUR watch back. Awful situation I hope has a happy ending for everyone but the a**h*le who stole it.

[le_baron]

Originally Posted by rolex818

Back in law school we studied the bona fide purchaser doctrine in property class. In a nutshell, it protects somebody who purchased an item ignorant of another's claim to the same property.

Scholars/philosophers may disagree as to whom the law should protect in that instance. But in the eyes of the law a bona fide purchaser, if truly ignorant of another's claim to title, shouldn't be penalized because they did nothing wrong.

Recourse is legal action, and your lawyer will explain what specifically needs to be done under the laws of your jurisdiction. But then you have to consider how much s/he will charge (contingency typically 30-40%/hourly/flat fee) and whether it's "worth it."

Also keep in mind that over 90% of disputes settle. Meaning, you likely won't get the watch back unless the "second party" gets some sort of compensation. Of course, that assumes the second party will fight it.

Good luck

I am a lawyer and I second this. The bonafide purchaser doctrine immediately came to mind. Wishing you luck as you deal with this.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Depending on your jurisdiction, in many instances if a stolen item has been purchased in good faith ie. the purchaser was not aware of such then he/she is the rightful owner. As also mentioned Rolex do not have the right to play Judge Judy

I think it's the opposite - a bad title cannot be made good.

[bondtoys]

Errrm, doesn‘t the bonafide doctrine only protect an „innocent buyer“ from criminal prosecution for owning stolen goods?

As far as I know, you can‘t legally own stolen goods. Period.
So a bonafide buyer may not be criminally charged but he legally still doesn‘t legally own the watch.

As others said, Rolex will only return the watch to the lawful owner and that eventually must be fought out in court.

[winst]

OP - out of interest did you get an insurance payout for this watch? If you did my understanding is that the Insurance Company would be the legal owners now but you may be given the option by them to purchase the watch back from them at a preferential price?

[whatsthetime?]

C'mon, this is the most ridiculous question I've ever read.
If this post is true and you have all the documentation you claim you have, then why would you be asking "Can anyone offer advice or other avenues to recover my watch?" This actually makes you sound like you're the one who is trying to claim it without documentation. Why wouldn't you have already gone with your documentation and picked up your watch?

[gary3535]

Guys have a look at Paul Thorpe on youtube he was a watch dealer that had a GMT stolen that went eventually went for service some years later , Rolex have his watch and won't seem to hand it back to him , hes going bananas to say the least ! these are not easy cases to resolve !

[RJG]

I did not know Rolex was gatekeeper on a suspected stolen watch. They do this? Where have I been? I had no idea that a Swiss manufacturing company would take this sort of legal spaghetti on.

[CalSRQ1]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

I think it's the opposite - a bad title cannot be made good.

It actually depends upon the jurisdiction. Assuming second party innocently purchased the watch from a grey dealer... Historically In common law countries the original owner defeats the 2d buyer because even though 2d buyer purchased, the thief cannot convey title the thief does not have. However, over time exceptions developed. What if original owner was negligent (protecting or reporting the goods, or too much time passed, etc). And what about insurance, and the fact that the original owner may have both the goods back, plus 3rd party payment (a windfall although obligated to send the insurance money back) where the innocent 2d purchaser is simply out of luck, other than perhaps having a cause of action against the place he purchased (caveat emptor- buyer beware...which as a side note is the advice we all give to members “buy the seller”. Anyway, that’s where the exceptions to a “simple” rule developed.

That’s way oversimplified but there are general rules from which exceptions developed, and here you likely have 3 jurisdictions involved (1st owner, 2nd owner, and now Wherever RSC is. No way a repair center picks sides here. Thankful that they even push the pause button and alert folks.

OP hope you resolve this. I have several pieces purchased from Grey dealers or individuals, and I’ve debated sending those pieces to RSC for this reason (well that and the fantastic job some of the independent shops do as discussed on this forum).

[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum OP

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by 77T

In the OP’s post the watch is now in Rolex’s possession - how it got there seems that the current owner provided it to them for service (either directly or via an AD). But that won’t be relevant to the outcome.

Rolex legal dept. uses a form letter to advise the party who placed the serial number onto their theft registry. Rolex takes the position that they can’t adjudicate anything - especially because the matter may also be crossing jurisdictional lines.

Unless the original owner who reported the watch as stolen wants to pursue the matter, Rolex will perform their work and return the watch to the person that asked for the service.

Therefore, the matter should be settled by the parties involved. OP should hire an attorney. The current owner will need to prove s/he acquired the watch without being a party to the theft (i.e., having clean hands) - perhaps a bill of sale from a trusted seller?

Why won’t Rolex just mail it back to the OP?

They don’t know if the police report was bogus, or the OP is really a bona fide owner, or anything else. They aren’t a finder of fact. They are like any other citizen who finds something that appears to be stolen (in this case by dint of a faxed theft report from OP in the past).

Rolex doesn’t know if the watch’s loss was covered by an insurance reimbursement. In such a case it would actually belong to the insurer.

There is so much to be considered that Rolex avoids undertaking the responsibility.

If the OP undertakes the matter in court, he will need a judge to issue a court order to produce the watch in that jurisdiction. The court must have power over the defendant that you are suing - the order is unlikely to be served since I’ll bet all 3 parties aren’t in NY.

The cost of each path is also something to consider.

I’ve succeeded in recovering a stolen Rolex - but everyone involved was in same jurisdiction and I had the criminal case still under investigation. All I had to do was meet the assigned detective at the property room.

If the other 3 watches that were stolen from my home ever show up, I will be in same boat as OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes, I understand those points, I was just trying to see how this all came about. The OP is in a tough position. If the new owner is cooperative, they could go back to their seller and push the issue, OP gets his watch back, they get a refund. If only things were that simple.

[DJ2020]

I had a experience kind of like that myself. I had one of my watches stolen. Turned in a police report and insurance paid out the claim. About 3 months later I received a call from the police that they had recovered some property of mine.

I went to the police station and provided documents and pictures and it was returned to me. It was pawned at a local Pawn shop here in town. They told me at this point it was up to the Pawn shop to recover funds they laid out from the person who pawned it. Cool thing was, I notified the insurance company that I had recovered it. and ended up buying it from them for pennies on the dollar.

But that was all in state and a pawn shop, not Rolex.

[drblowfin]

In Uk stolen property remains property of original legal owner until it it legally sold. You cannot legally sell stolen goods, so even if bought in good faith it has to be returned to owner. No grey area there. The current ‘owner’ has committed a criminal offence by his handling of stolen property and could be prosecuted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk