Living not in the US - NOT POLITICAL

[Goin2drt]

All - I do not want to turn this into a political thread so leave that out.

My wife and I got to talking yesterday about the possibility of leaving the US and moving, living and retiring in a different country. I knew that this forum has a lot of folks from different countries so I thought I would ask your thoughts.

Key topics and must haves would be (listed below) and does your country provide this or are you educated on where you think this would exist.

1. No extreme weather. Can have all the seasons but nothing crazy extreme.
2. Good and AFFORDABLE healthcare.
3. Can get away with speaking English. Wife is bilingual in Spanish, I am not.
4. Fairly easy access to airports to leave and have folks come to visit that would not cost a fortune.
5. Retirement friendly from a financial standpoint. Basically cost of living is affordable. This also is subjective I know but lets say we will put a number on it. You could live nicely on an income of $5K a month US dollars.
6. Safe. I know this is relative but you get what I mean.
7. Things to do/explore. Culture if you will. Things to keep you busy.
8. No socialism, communism etc. Want a free democracy.

We "googled" best countries to retire in and many interesting countries came up so I thought I would ask here. Why not.

[uscmatt99]

Well you may need to compromise on 8 a bit to get 1-7, depending on how you view the world. Have you traveled much? I'd advise spending 2-4 weeks in a few locations once you've narrowed things down before making a decision. The good news is that wherever you go, you're likely to find some like-minded people, even where you may least expect them.

My list would include southern France, northern Italy, and Bangkok for what it's worth.

[CamSLC]

I "lived" in Costa Rica for a summer. That checks the majority of your boxes.

They have public and private healthcare options with good post patient ratings. San Jose is a very easy flight from the east coast. There are endless outdoor excursions from the Beach to the cloud forrest. LOTS of expat Americans/Canadians. Very safe. Check out Nosara and Domincal. They allow some long term visa's with proof of continued income, like Social Security, direct deposited into an account there. Very easy living.

I didn't even really consider Europe as I assumed you would want to visit family in the US. If not, I like Portugal and Spain.

[FTX I]

I'd say Portugal. I still have many years but I plan to retire there.

[dimag333]

there are spots in the US that get close, but your gonna get that extreme weather. Is there a tax implication to leaving the us?

steve

[Blansky]

Your number 8 is kind of misleading and flies in the face of some of the others.

Every first world country is more socialistic than the US. That does not mean they aren't a free democracy. They just have more safety nets and interestingly more happy people. And cheaper health care.

Conde Nast website has places that people retire to or leave the US for. New Zealand is pretty interesting.

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

https://internationalliving.com/the-...ces-to-retire/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/econo...b6d647a39cf60c

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries...term=CNT_Daily

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by dimag333

there are spots in the US that get close, but your gonna get that extreme weather. Is there a tax implication to leaving the us?

steve

This I do not know. Will take a lot of research as our retirement is in 401k, Social Security and my wife has a pension.

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Well you may need to compromise on 8 a bit to get 1-7, depending on how you view the world. Have you traveled much? I'd advise spending 2-4 weeks in a few locations once you've narrowed things down before making a decision. The good news is that wherever you go, you're likely to find some like-minded people, even where you may least expect them.

My list would include southern France, northern Italy, and Bangkok for what it's worth.

Interesting options. Our travel so far has been; Europe (London, Ireland, Barcelona). Caribbean (Most places a cruise ship goes to. Costa Rica, Mexico (tourist towns), Puerto Rico.

Costa Rica we did not like but we are the anomaly. Would have to travel there again to try that again. We love Puerto Rico. Been there three times now.

Keep the thoughts coming.

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Your number 8 is kind of misleading and flies in the face of some of the others.

Every first world country is more socialistic than the US. That does not mean they aren't a free democracy. They just have more safety nets and interestingly more happy people. And cheaper health care.

Conde Nast website has places that people retire to or leave the US for. New Zealand is pretty interesting.

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

https://internationalliving.com/the-...ces-to-retire/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/econo...b6d647a39cf60c

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/t...s-in-the-world

https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries...term=CNT_Daily

These were interesting. Funny Malta comes up on a lot of these. Anyone ever been? Mexico scares us and that would be a no as they are just to unstable. Interesting a few Scandinavian countries are on the list. I thought those places were very expensive to live. Also isn’t Australia and New Zealand expensive? Plus I think those would be just too far away from the US.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

This I do not know. Will take a lot of research as our retirement is in 401k, Social Security and my wife has a pension.

Costa Rica we did not like but we are the anomaly. Would have to travel there again to try that again. We love Puerto Rico. Been there three times now.

Keep the thoughts coming.

If you were on a cruise ship you may not have gotten a true dose of what a country has to offer.

Also you most likely would keep your US citizenship/taxes and accounts in the US. Just a local bank account for a residency permit.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by CamSLC

Also you most likely would keep your US citizenship/taxes and accounts in the US. Just a local bank account for a residency permit.

I think I would look at the citizenship thing, if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live. However, you may qualify for certain foreign earned income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

This I do not know. Will take a lot of research as our retirement is in 401k, Social Security and my wife has a pension.



Interesting options. Our travel so far has been; Europe (London, Ireland, Barcelona). Caribbean (Most places a cruise ship goes to. Costa Rica, Mexico (tourist towns), Puerto Rico.

Costa Rica we did not like but we are the anomaly. Would have to travel there again to try that again. We love Puerto Rico. Been there three times now.

Keep the thoughts coming.

If you'll allow me to make some guesses on your world views based on your posts.... I get the feeling that you'd enjoy living in Catalonia. My wife and I absolutely loved Barcelona when we stayed there for a week. We also explored the surrounding areas a bit, it's a beautiful part of the world.

It will be hard to find a place with affordable health care and low taxes, with the American luxuries you're used to I think. Countries with great safety nets are in the position precisely because they are taxpayer funded. Many countries have a multi-tiered health care system where the basics are covered, and you have the option to pay ala carte based on your means and needs. But I do agree, if I was retiring somewhere, the health care options would be at the top of my list of criteria.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I think I would look at the citizenship thing, if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live. However, you may qualify for certain foreign earned income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits.

That's true Dave. My thinking is since they would be retired, they would not be earning income in the new country. As we Americans are taxed based on our Citizenship, to avoid that you would need to renounce and losing citizenship may have an effect on their Social Security income or tax advantaged retirement accounts.

Also some people have hang ups about turning in their US passport.

[CashGap]

Look at Panama, excellent residency and citizenship paths.

I was headed there to start the paperwork in May, but their handling of the virus scared me off for life. Might not give you the same reaction.

You mentioned four seasons... That might be a miss, I was looking for late late spring, early summer, mid summer, and late summer!

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

These were interesting. Funny Malta comes up on a lot of these. Anyone ever been? Mexico scares us and that would be a no as they are just to unstable. Interesting a few Scandinavian countries are on the list. I thought those places were very expensive to live. Also isn’t Australia and New Zealand expensive? Plus I think those would be just too far away from the US.

When people think of Mexico, generally they think of beaches but a city like San Miguel de Allende sounds pretty interesting.

I always wondered about Uruguay as well.

[zengineer]

My brother did this very recently. First "moved" to Florida to be resident of no state income tax state. For now planning a few years in Portugal to be near a daughter in military stationed in Italy, long term niarrowed down to Panama and certain select areas in Mexico. Lots to consider, health care is critical, English is nice, but important to understand if you can own property and certain other tbings as a foreigner. The taxes are complicated, depends on how completely you are willing and able to break ties with US but Fed tax on any structured income like pensions or SS will be really hard to outrun.

Sent from my Motorola Bag Phone

[AzPaul]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

1. No extreme weather. Can have all the seasons but nothing crazy extreme.
2. Good and AFFORDABLE healthcare.
3. Can get away with speaking English. Wife is bilingual in Spanish, I am not.
4. Fairly easy access to airports to leave and have folks come to visit that would not cost a fortune.
5. Retirement friendly from a financial standpoint. Basically cost of living is affordable. This also is subjective I know but lets say we will put a number on it. You could live nicely on an income of $5K a month US dollars.
6. Safe. I know this is relative but you get what I mean.
7. Things to do/explore. Culture if you will. Things to keep you busy.
8. No socialism, communism etc. Want a free democracy.

Gave that to my team to work on and they came back with ~ Texas

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by CamSLC

That's true Dave. My thinking is since they would be retired, they would not be earning income in the new country. As we Americans are taxed based on our Citizenship, to avoid that you would need to renounce and losing citizenship may have an effect on their Social Security income or tax advantaged retirement accounts.

Also some people have hang ups about turning in their US passport.

Ahh, of course, I missed the "retired" bit, you are correct. I never thought of the last bit you mentioned about losing SS and retirement accounts. I would also have some hangups about giving up my passport. Great points.

[HHIslander]

Lots of good suggestions. I would add Chile. Thats where I would go if I had my druthers. Good healthcare, lots of expats, great culture/food, outdoors activities, beach/mountains. Not being fluent in Spanish is doable but not easy.

There are many places in Mexico that are attracting a huge amount of Expats. Ensenada, for one. Mexico isn't all crime and drugs.

Someone mentioned renouncing US citizenship. If you do that, you still have to pay taxes for 10 years afterwards. If you look into it, you will find that renouncing is just about always a colossal mistake.

[Watchflair]

What comes to my mind is finding a balance. Find a stateside residence - perhaps Florida. Then why not go and rent an apartment for a month or two in countries/locations you want to explore more - do that a few times a year to get your full and then return home.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by Blansky

When people think of Mexico, generally they think of beaches but a city like San Miguel de Allende sounds pretty interesting.

I always wondered about Uruguay as well.

San Miguel de Allende is one of my favorite places in Mexico that I've visited. The only downside is it is not the most convenient place to fly into. Still it's absolutely worth a visit.

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by CamSLC

If you were on a cruise ship you may not have gotten a true dose of what a country has to offer.

Also you most likely would keep your US citizenship/taxes and accounts in the US. Just a local bank account for a residency permit.

Totally agree about your cruise comment. We would not decide solely based on that. Certainly we would go visit for an extended period of time before anything was made permanent. Only places we stayed longer than a day was Costa Rica, Puerto Rico and the Euro trip. Some Mexico tourist spots but those don't really count.

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

If you'll allow me to make some guesses on your world views based on your posts.... I get the feeling that you'd enjoy living in Catalonia. My wife and I absolutely loved Barcelona when we stayed there for a week. We also explored the surrounding areas a bit, it's a beautiful part of the world.

It will be hard to find a place with affordable health care and low taxes, with the American luxuries you're used to I think. Countries with great safety nets are in the position precisely because they are taxpayer funded. Many countries have a multi-tiered health care system where the basics are covered, and you have the option to pay ala carte based on your means and needs. But I do agree, if I was retiring somewhere, the health care options would be at the top of my list of criteria.

Originally Posted by CamSLC

That's true Dave. My thinking is since they would be retired, they would not be earning income in the new country. As we Americans are taxed based on our Citizenship, to avoid that you would need to renounce and losing citizenship may have an effect on their Social Security income or tax advantaged retirement accounts.

Also some people have hang ups about turning in their US passport.

Originally Posted by CashGap

Look at Panama, excellent residency and citizenship paths.

I was headed there to start the paperwork in May, but their handling of the virus scared me off for life. Might not give you the same reaction.

You mentioned four seasons... That might be a miss, I was looking for late late spring, early summer, mid summer, and late summer!

Originally Posted by zengineer

My brother did this very recently. First "moved" to Florida to be resident of no state income tax state. For now planning a few years in Portugal to be near a daughter in military stationed in Italy, long term niarrowed down to Panama and certain select areas in Mexico. Lots to consider, health care is critical, English is nice, but important to understand if you can own property and certain other tbings as a foreigner. The taxes are complicated, depends on how completely you are willing and able to break ties with US but Fed tax on any structured income like pensions or SS will be really hard to outrun.

Sent from my Motorola Bag Phone

Citizenship and taxes is where I need to get WAY more knowledgeable. Yes we would be retired HOWEVER yes my SS payments would be large and would not want to give that up if truly I would have to if we gave up citizenship. I do not know this answer as I have already paid into them so do you lose it if you leave. Also my wife's pension is with the state of CA. so we would need to make sure that also doesn't go away. Other than those reasons we wouldn't necessarily be for or against giving it up.

Originally Posted by AzPaul

Gave that to my team to work on and they came back with ~ Texas

This is funny. Spent lots of time in Texas. Funny enough if you read and believe some people it may become its own country.

[Fleetlord]

A sports columnist that I follow had essentially the same list of requirements for relocation and he chose Portugal.

[RyanJ]

Portugal, specifically southern Portugal. Get the weather of San Diego at the cost of a state in the midwest. There are also pretty big tax advantages as well depending on your situation.

You pretty much described many EU member nations. The big cities can be expensive but don't be afraid to live outside the major cities. Many of these countries will shock you at the luxuries you will gain. As an American do not assume moving is a downgrade. It may be a huge upgrade. I say this as an American who has lived in some great countries that will shock you how much more advanced they are in certain areas than the US. I am not putting down the US. I am simply not ashamed to admit that there are things other countries just do better than we do.

Please understand and read how you can invest if you plan to actively buy/sell. There are a lot of US and EU laws that prevent an Expat from buying US mutual funds and some ETFs while living as a resident abroad. Most do not realize this until it is too late.

You do not have to give up US citizenship to live abroad and/or even get citizenship in a different country (depending on the country of course.)
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Citizenship and taxes is where I need to get WAY more knowledgeable. Yes we would be retired HOWEVER yes my SS payments would be large and would not want to give that up if truly I would have to if we gave up citizenship. I do not know this answer as I have already paid into them so do you lose it if you leave. Also my wife's pension is with the state of CA. so we would need to make sure that also doesn't go away. Other than those reasons we wouldn't necessarily be for or against giving it up.

It sounds like a simple residency visa is all you really want. Most countries offer a program for retirees with guaranteed income or assets. Check out the D7 visa for Portugal. In Costa Rica, Panama, Columbia they have the "Pensionado" visa. Spain will let you in for a year if you've got 30k in an account there. Maintaining some type of US address will make your personal finances easier to reconcile.

I'm very jealous and planning on this same thing for myself someday as well.

[brandrea]

Come to Canada ... ok let the weather jokes begin

[vh2k]

Plenty of great options WITHIN the United States. Absolutely no reason to move away.

[dmash]

Did you really group socialism with communism?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Well you may need to compromise on 8 a bit to get 1-7, depending on how you view the world. Have you traveled much? I'd advise spending 2-4 weeks in a few locations once you've narrowed things down before making a decision. The good news is that wherever you go, you're likely to find some like-minded people, even where you may least expect them.

My list would include southern France, northern Italy, and Bangkok for what it's worth.

Thailand is anything but a free democracy though. However I love it, and we have a home in Bangkok. Bangkok definitely wouldn’t be my first suggestion for a retirement age individual to settle down though. That’s like settling down in NYC or HK. It’s not relaxing, it’s hectic.

[jumpmaster 175]

Kiplinger produces a report each year on the best places to retire outside the US and they break it down by various categories (cost, healthcare, safety,etc).

I have done a ton of research on this topic and my plan is to visit each country and stay for a minimum for 60-90 days (depending on tourist visa limits) and travel within the country to see if it is a place I could really retire to. I want to travel with minimum belongings, and plan to rent a furnished apt/home etc, because if I end up hating it, I want to pack my bag and be out the door and on to the next adventure.

I think the idea of retiring outside the US SOUNDS great, but not sure I could really enjoy life without some of the "necessities" we are fortunate to have in the US. There are many "expat" forums dedicated to every country you could think of as well. Everyone recommends to try to live in the country as long as you can to experience all the weather seasons, and actual costs of living before deciding to try to become a resident.

I am a few years away, but I am retired military and I am fairly certain I can stretch these dollars much further overseas vs US

For what it's worth my top 5:
- Portugal
- Thailand
- Philippines
- Columbia
- Vietnam

good luck

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Come to Canada ... ok let the weather jokes begin

Actually, Canada is my plan B. I was married to a Canadian so that should make me an honorable Canadian.

I know what a looney and a tooney are, have visited Tim Hortons, and eaten poutine.

I do really like Canada!