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Old 6 December 2021, 11:03 PM   #1
robinmgb
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Another 5513 - Thoughts please?

I'm looking at buying this 5513 and want people's experience opinions please?
Maybe the case isn't the best?
It's a 1970, claimed original dial, hands, insert, bracelet and an A clasp from 1976.
Asking £10995

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sQicabDS5RfsFQFk7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ejBAqoGyYuYiy4rp7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yCXyAuaWwT1tHBrJ9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1gAvJoYz7MbtsXj37

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PbMdVoGDxDKwk5TW7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CjmuG9tnga5NtcCw5

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Rdxr9Zs6kA2fd6Zv6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HsumAHCrnM77wB9T7
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Old 6 December 2021, 11:46 PM   #2
Dan S
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I only looked at the first few photos but if the rest are that bad, there is no way I'd be able to give a useful opinion. Perhaps you can post better photos, and also the asking price.
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Old 6 December 2021, 11:59 PM   #3
robinmgb
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Sorry that's all the pics I've got, asking £10995
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Old 7 December 2021, 03:04 AM   #4
karleone
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It looks horrible - hard pass
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Old 7 December 2021, 03:51 AM   #5
Kingface66
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Quote:
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It looks horrible - hard pass
The photos are horrible (I’d agree)? Or, the watch itself?
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Old 7 December 2021, 03:57 AM   #6
lancelot
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Where do you find these gems ? LOL
Are these from owners or grey market dealers ? Try and build a relationship with a reputable seller/store and maybe ask them to source you one ?
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Old 7 December 2021, 04:16 AM   #7
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First photo shows a top right lug that appears shot, with a badly bowed-in lug hole. I'd pass based just on that, and the terrible quality of all of the photos.

It always shocks me how bad some of these listings are for very expensive vintage watches, especially nowadays when virtually everyone has a good digital camera literally in their pocket (via their phone).
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Old 7 December 2021, 07:02 AM   #8
karleone
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The watch is horrible
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Old 7 December 2021, 07:10 AM   #9
robinmgb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karleone View Post
The watch is horrible
I see the top right lug doesn't look good on the first pic but better in the others.
I looked at two 5513s locally last week that were more expensive £13000 and £13500 and neither were as good as this one in my opinion.
Had similar cases but one had new hands and a 93150 bracelet on a 1971, the other 1977 also had replacement hands, insert and a gmt bracelet!
I thought this one looked good value, seems I was wrong
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Old 7 December 2021, 07:14 AM   #10
indianmachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinmgb View Post
I see the top right lug doesn't look good on the first pic but better in the others.
I looked at two 5513s locally last week that were more expensive £13000 and £13500 and neither were as good as this one in my opinion.
Had similar cases but one had new hands and a 93150 bracelet on a 1971, the other 1977 also had replacement hands, insert and a gmt bracelet!
I thought this one looked good value, seems I was wrong
Just very hard to say without better pictures. Top lug is bad enough though to suggest it's a pass.

For that price I think you're better off getting a later 5513 WGS glossy dial and they can be had in awesome condition.
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Old 7 December 2021, 08:28 AM   #11
karleone
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Condition is everything! Chasing a low price with a vintage Rolex is not a good idea. To be honest the case looks in very bad condition. Way way over polished. I would not enjoy this piece even at 5k.
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Old 7 December 2021, 01:29 PM   #12
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I’m not an expert, but someone who’s bought a few rolexes from reputable dealers (mostly HQMilton), and I’d say - there’s vintage at all prices, just try and buy smart. Some are beat and cheaper, some are perfect and super expensive. As the buyer, you’ve got to know what you want and what you can live with. It’s the same as vintage cars really - what are you after? A perfect vintage car, or one that’s cheaper and you can still enjoy?

Take the same due diligence as you would with a vintage car - know what parts of the watch (car) make it period correct, what parts may cause issues down the road, and then make a decision based on what’s most important to you.

If you want a perfect vintage watch, you’re going to pay for it. And I think the advice you’ll get here will skew towards only buying perfect. That’s what’s great about this forum, learn what’s important and what makes a watch perfect. Then learn what you can live with.
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Old 7 December 2021, 05:39 PM   #13
lupus66
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Agree. People here are supercritical. Most perfect 50 year old toolwatches have been to the spa with welding etc.
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Old 7 December 2021, 07:50 PM   #14
Paulie 50
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Agree. People here are supercritical. Most perfect 50 year old toolwatches have been to the spa with welding etc.
Agree 100%. How can you have a perfect 50 year old tool watch?
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Old 7 December 2021, 08:51 PM   #15
Speedbird-1
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This watch is on Chrono24.
The photo's are better viewed there.
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Old 8 December 2021, 12:07 AM   #16
karleone
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I mean you can still find unpolished vintage Rolex and repolished but well done. Here it has been way over polished. If the OP is happy with this ok but he is asking for our opinion. Look like OP is more interested in a good deal than a nice piece. And this is not good in the Vintage Rolex world.
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Old 8 December 2021, 12:37 AM   #17
Kingface66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karleone View Post
The watch is horrible
Yeah, the case has been through a lot, but, I’ve seen worse (regrettably, I’ve owned worse). A few things I’d keep in mind. (Here’s the link, btw)

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id19557740.htm

1. The dial and hands look pretty great to me. As does the insert. And with a correct clasp, and some sprucing up, that would be a sweet, and correct, folded link bracelet. Is that enough to make the watch great? That’s up to how critical you choose to be. But “horrible”? I’ve seen horribly damaged, if not ruined, gilt dials on HW Milton, and elsewhere, described as “excellent tropical dial” that have been sold for way more than this one.

2. If you bought this and posted it as an “incoming” here in the vintage forum, I promise you would get only replies along the lines of “Congrats! Looks great! Excellent dial! Well-worn, honest watch”. No one would say “the case sucks”. In other words, you will find no shortage of critical opinions if you’re considering a watch. But most of these same members will congratulate you if you told them you’d just bought it, and you’d be pretty happy.

3. The case can (at a price) be restored. I think it was Springer who said something along the lines of “What’s the harm in restoring something damaged?”
If you have a dial where the markers have been washed, what’s the harm in re-luming it?
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Old 8 December 2021, 12:48 AM   #18
karleone
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Ok so the dial looks in good condition and immaculate. The case though has lost its shape. It doesn't look near to factory angles of a 5513 (rounded lugs, bad polish, chamfers / bevels gone, brushing on lugs quite bad). I am afraid for a nice 5513 you will need to increase your budget.

This one looks much more appealing to me and only slightly more expensive (I guess the scratches we wee are on crystal and not on the dial itself)

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/rolex...id21753365.htm
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Old 8 December 2021, 03:02 AM   #19
indianmachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingface66 View Post
Yeah, the case has been through a lot, but, I’ve seen worse (regrettably, I’ve owned worse). A few things I’d keep in mind. (Here’s the link, btw)

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id19557740.htm

1. The dial and hands look pretty great to me. As does the insert. And with a correct clasp, and some sprucing up, that would be a sweet, and correct, folded link bracelet. Is that enough to make the watch great? That’s up to how critical you choose to be. But “horrible”? I’ve seen horribly damaged, if not ruined, gilt dials on HW Milton, and elsewhere, described as “excellent tropical dial” that have been sold for way more than this one.

2. If you bought this and posted it as an “incoming” here in the vintage forum, I promise you would get only replies along the lines of “Congrats! Looks great! Excellent dial! Well-worn, honest watch”. No one would say “the case sucks”. In other words, you will find no shortage of critical opinions if you’re considering a watch. But most of these same members will congratulate you if you told them you’d just bought it, and you’d be pretty happy.

3. The case can (at a price) be restored. I think it was Springer who said something along the lines of “What’s the harm in restoring something damaged?”
If you have a dial where the markers have been washed, what’s the harm in re-luming it?
I think this is good advice OP. Only you can determine how sensitive you are to the case. If it doesnt bother you, go for it! If you're set on a maxi 5513 at this price point, I think you'll have to trade off condition vs. originality (really period correctness) and I think much better to take a piece with a great dial, suboptimal case and period correct vs. the opposite (bad dial or replacement parts).
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Old 8 December 2021, 12:57 PM   #20
swish77
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Agree. People here are supercritical. Most perfect 50 year old toolwatches have been to the spa with welding etc.
Most have been welded? That's just not true, and such a generalization. There are plenty of old tool watches that are in excellent shape and that haven't been messed with. The OP's example is just not a great one, mainly because of the case. He asked for opinions and got 'em.
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Old 8 December 2021, 09:07 PM   #21
karleone
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most have been welded? That's just not true, and such a generalization. There are plenty of old tool watches that are in excellent shape and that haven't been messed with. The op's example is just not a great one, mainly because of the case. He asked for opinions and got 'em.
+1
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